[aleonx3]

What I don't get though, is that you are dealing with three factors: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. There's nothing magical about them, and they work the same in all cameras -- determining your exposure. I can control DOF and freeze motion in program mode on any camera that allows for program shift. It's not like Pentax bypasses the laws of physics and enable you to do something other gear can't.

TAv mode is similar to auto ISO in another brand but not offered in every model. It is not the same as program shift (fix ISO) nor is it the same as manual mode (complete manual control). Program shift (Hyper program) exists only in some high end model in another brand, and yet with only one dial, not easy to do. Green button is a neat feature like a skilled programmer's trick to temporary escape from the current setting and ask the camera what it thinks but for only one shot - very useful tool to do quick sanity check.

[ytterbium]

My fuji P&S had a program shift. Why it is not easy to do with a one dial?
Basically one way increases aperture and other way decreases (same, but opposite happens with shutter speed).
At least so it was with my P&S (you had to use 4 way L/R buttons for this) and is with k200d.
How important is this when buying new DSLR or deciding between systems?
My k100ds didnt had this feature, but still after some time i got used to it after my P&S, now im happy that i have it again with k200d.

[aleonx3]

My fuji P&S had a program shift.

Ok, I take it back... may be your fuji P&S is a high-end model.

[ytterbium]

Ok, I take it back... may be your fuji P&S is a high-end model.

5200s/5600s - Lowest end of the SLR style at that time.

Anyway i'm almost 100% sure that the original poster should stick with Pentax. It is near perfect "family user" system. Others are not so people friendly in many aspects.
Take size for example. I guess only other brand is Olympus which is good at this.
As well as he should upgrade to k200d or k-M, to keep the AA support unless he need the stronger AF motor in K20d/k7.

Others try to produce their equipment as bulky as possible, even if it is beneficial when you use your camera as a professional tool, it is often a disadvantage for those who use DSLR as a fully featured P&S.

If you compare image quality they are nearly identical:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/...nd2)/Canon#400

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Last edited by ytterbium; 08-06-2009 at 05:58 AM.

[dylansalt]

Nahhhhhhh - just buy a Canon 40D - based on a lot of comments in this forum from previous Pentax owners - they say it is much better and (they) having been previous Pentax owners, they cant be wrong - can they?? ;-)))

After passing up the Canon 40D for my lowly picture taking K10D abilities I just never have been able to get shots of kids, lowlight or sports - damn it - should have gone with herd, LOL

Cheers

Dylan

PS - For those with a serious lack of humor please take the above - not to seriously

[Jazzyboy]

Anyway i'm almost 100% sure that the original poster should stick with Pentax. It is near perfect "family user" system.

I have the same camera as the origanal poster (K100D), only 2 lenses too (18-55mm + sigma 30mm f/1.4) and I've been wondering exactly the same questions. I like Pentax but is it really worth it staying with a brand that has no other ambition than being a "family user system" ?
One of the posters here said that there was no upgrade going from an aps-c to another aps-c (IQ speaking). It is an opinion and I tend to share it.

So the question is : if me or the original poster love Pentax but definitely want an upgrade in our images IQ... what are we supposed to do ?

- buy a K-7
- buy a 645D in 2010 (...in Japan... I mean, only in Japan)
- Pray on our knees that the Pentax God release us from our tourments with a Pentax fullframe.
- Jump off the boat and go to Nikon (go to canon, we'd better be dead)

What am I... hum, what are we supposed to do exactly ?

[nostatic]

One of the posters here said that there was no upgrade going from an aps-c to another aps-c (IQ speaking). It is an opinion and I tend to share it.

This is not necessarily true. There is an argument that there is no bump between K20d and K7 since they are essentially the same sensor. I think there is an iq difference between K10d and K20d. All APS-C sensors are not created equal, especially if you're comparing a current one with another from 4-5 years ago.

[kittykat46]

I have the same camera as the origanal poster (K100D), only 2 lenses too (18-55mm + sigma 30mm f/1.4) and I've been wondering exactly the same questions. I like Pentax but is it really worth it staying with a brand that has no other ambition than being a "family user system" ?
One of the posters here said that there was no upgrade going from an aps-c to another aps-c (IQ speaking). It is an opinion and I tend to share it.

So the question is : if me or the original poster love Pentax but definitely want an upgrade in our images IQ... what are we supposed to do ?

- buy a K-7
- buy a 645D in 2010 (...in Japan... I mean, only in Japan)
- Pray on our knees that the Pentax God release us from our tourments with a Pentax fullframe.
- Jump off the boat and go to Nikon (go to canon, we'd better be dead)

What am I... hum, what are we supposed to do exactly ?

I went from a K100D to a K-7. Its a huge upgrade - in resolution (lens dependent but you need the camera resolution as well), camera performance - Auto Focus speed and accuracy, Auto White Balance, speed, usability,

That there is no upgrade going from an aps-c to another aps-c (IQ speaking) is very untrue as far as K100D -> K-7 is concerned

[Haakan]

Just to emphasize what kittykat46 and nostatic said, there is definitely an improvement going from a 4 year old 6 Mpix camera to a current 14 Mpix model.
The difference in IQ between current "state of the art" APS-C cameras from different brands are negible though.

To give and example of the diffrence between K100D and K20D, here are some JPEGs from imaging resource, taken at ISO3200. The images has been scaled to same size. First K100D and then K20D

Edit: Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding - these are crops from a larger image.

K100D, ISO 3200


K20D, ISO 3200

[Eigengrau]

To give and example of the diffrence between K100D and K20D, here are some JPEGs from imaging resource, taken at ISO3200. The images has been scaled to same size. First K100D and then K20D

Thanks for posting this - it's easy to forget how far we've come in just a few years.

[Haakan]

Thanks,
I just thought that I might need to add that these are crops from a larger image (just so no one think this is the while image, then there might be a lot of new discussions)

Best regards,
Haakan

[aleonx3]

Actually, I upgraded from K100D to K10D (still keeping my K100D as backup - good thing I did, as my K10D mirror fell off during my last cruise trip). Also, the K100D is a good backup system since it uses regular AA battery.

I am hoping to upgrade to K-7 bypassing the K20D since my K10D is good for my use currently as a hobby. I hear someone on this forum indicating that a K10D to K-7 upgrade is pretty substantial and worthwhile.

[philbaum]

One day in an anxious moment I wondered what I would do if I had to leave Pentax for some reason. Where would I find a home? When I was first looking for a DSLR there weren't many to pick from. I was considering the first Canon low-end DSLR. Then I learned they had intentionally removed functions the engineers had put in the camera. They didn't want the camera to be too good. I thought that was tacky and Canon, as a company, went on my list of companies I wouldn't use. Nikon didn't have an inexpensive DSLR. So, I got Pentax.

Moving to now, I really like in-camera stabilization. I've heard the arguments concerning in-lens vs. in-camera. I don't buy it. I'll admit, I tend to be cheap. But, I like have stabilization with every lens without having to pay a premium.

Olympus? I don't want a smaller sensor.

Sony? Maybe. I don't know yet.

I haven't used any other brands of DSLRs but I've handled a few and had proud owners show them off. I like the way my Pentax cameras work. They're easy for me. The others seem clumbsy. Of course, I'm not familiar with them, either.

My only complaint with Pentax is focusing.

I agree with you about the crippling business. Instead of trying to build the best packages, it seemed with the Canon Point and Shoot I had that needless crippling was going on. Thats what motivated me to buy Pentax, plus water resistance, plus the excellent viewfinder. With Pentax, they seem to try harder.

With the lenses that Pentax is building lately, the 50-135 and the 60-250, 200, 300, not to mention the K7, it doesn't feel like they are going out of business. On the other hand, Canon's business income last quarter is down 72% over last year, if memory serves. Nikon got stiffed big time by the Wolf/Kit camera chains when they went bankrupt.

So far i haven't been disappointed with pentax equipment, and the resale value of the eqipment has been high. Bidding is active, even on lenses 30 years old. Old Canon lenses aren't worth scratch because Canon chose to put the focusing motors in the lenses for more expense. So much for loyalty to their customers. Yep, Canon is nothing but a class act - not.

[pingflood]

So far i haven't been disappointed with pentax equipment, and the resale value of the eqipment has been high. Bidding is active, even on lenses 30 years old. Old Canon lenses aren't worth scratch because Canon chose to put the focusing motors in the lenses for more expense. So much for loyalty to their customers. Yep, Canon is nothing but a class act - not.

Mm hmm, let's see.

Nobody really mentions that any K mount lens older than the "A" ones don't let the body control aperture, and will only meter with the "green button". It wouldn't have taken much to put in a non-crippled K mount, but for some reason they did not.

Also, seems like people overlook Pentax heading down the SDM-only road, effectively screwing owners of camera bodies that don't support it.

Canon made one switch, 22 years ago, and every EF lens made has worked on every EF body the same, without any issues.

So who are the bad guys?

edit: and just have a look at Nikon, where you have to pull up a damn cross reference chart to figure out what will mount, meter, focus or not on a given camera.

[dylansalt]

mantra to myself - "must switch to Canon, must switch to Canon";-)))

I have just realized I will never make it or be accepted as a serious photog if I don't

Dyl;-)