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08-06-2009, 01:17 PM   #16
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Well, it is actually the opposite for at least the 2 first statements:

1. D90 has 96% viewfinder frame coverage, K7 has 100% coverage

2. According to DxOMark, D90 is having lower ISO sensitivty vs. stated that is worse than the K20D (and I suspect K7 is similar to K20D), so actually K20D (and most likely K7) has a better sensitivity than D90. I also found this when looking at histograms from RAW data taken with K20D and D90 under same conditions.

3. Here I do not know and have not found any numbers.

Both are excellent cameras and will take excellent images that will be hard to distuinguish, I have spent quite a substantial time pixel peeping images from D90 and K20D, and found nothing that tipped the scale either way in that respect.

Thus for me build quality, weather resitance, in body image stabilization (making any lens stabilized, even my $50 SMC Pentax-A 50mm) are, mmong other things, what makes me feel that Pentax is the better choice for me.

Others may have other priorities and come to other conclusions.

Best regards,
Haakan

08-06-2009, 01:25 PM   #17
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Hoho, for the 1, you are right, but I am saying that the K-7 viewfinder is not as big and bright, not saying coverage. This also has something to do with magnification ratio. D90 is obviously bigger.

For 2, I am also confused, so I wonder it is the lens, since I can see the difference from view finder. FA 50 is a little darker and red, 50/1.4d is brighter and yellow.

Tony
08-06-2009, 01:32 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by fulcrumx29 Quote
1. Viewfinder: D90 seems larger in area, a little yellow with 50/1.4d. K-7 smaller, a little darker and a little red.

2. Sensitivity: At same light, K-7 need 1/3-1 stop more exposure than D-90. With same ISO/Tv/Av settings, K-7 is a little darker.

3. Low light AF: Although K-7 is a little faster than D90 in most cases, without assist light, K-7 is more difficult to lock in extremely low-light condition than D90.

In this comparison, D90 seems to win a little. I guess most of 2 and 3 could indicate the AF50/1.4d is superior to FA 50/1.4 in light amount point of view. Any thoughts
Tony,

As for the viewfinder, maybe the higher magnification of the D90 VF fools the eye? A big plus with the K-7 VF for me is the 100% coverage and I would take that over a higher magnification (if forced to chose) any day for more accurate framing. I don't generally find the Pentax VF dark (coming from Nikon), although I will say that sometimes I find it hard to get my eye close enough to it - perhaps it's just my big nose getting in the way...

As for point 2 and 3, only you can decide whether that will be of importance to you in the type of photography you do. DXOmark scores, brick wall tests and so forth are fairly irrelevant compared to how the camera feels in everyday use. How about bringing the K-7 along to a few sessions and see how it feels to use it? I'm surprised by your comment regarding the ease/speed of use of the D90, I've used both (as well as a D700), and I must say I found the D90 sorely lacking in terms of fast adjustments. Switching between AF modes, metering etc means pressing buttons rather than just flipping switches, which usually meant I had to at least take my eye from the VF.

As for the front focusing issues, have you tried the camera with other lenses?

Thomas
08-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by fulcrumx29:
Hoho, for the 1, you are right, but I am saying that the K-7 viewfinder is not as big and bright, not saying coverage. This also has something to do with magnification ratio. D90 is obviously bigger.

For 2, I am also confused, so I wonder it is the lens, since I can see the difference from view finder. FA 50 is a little darker and red, 50/1.4d is brighter and yellow.

Tony
A slight difference in the lenses could explain your impression, e.g. if the 1.4 was actually 1.5 instead, giving you slightly darker image. I think the DxOMark is closer to the actual truth.

To have 100% coverage is something that is quite attractive (you have to go to D300 to get it in Nikon), so if the magnification is slightly lower (0.92 in K7 vs. 0.95 in K20D and 0.94 in D90), I will still favor the accuracy with 100% coverage any day, to me it feel as giving a more "serious" touch

Best regards,
Haakan

08-06-2009, 02:07 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by fulcrumx29 Quote
Hoho, for the 1, you are right, but I am saying that the K-7 viewfinder is not as big and bright, not saying coverage. This also has something to do with magnification ratio. D90 is obviously bigger.
Well, coverage and magnification, together with sensor size, make up the actual size of the viewfinder. As far as I can tell, you should be able to calculate the actual size of the VF by multiplying the sensor width/height with the magnification and then again with the coverage (only relevant if lower than 100% (or higher, but that only goes for the Oly E-3 AFAIK)). This should give us:

D90 viewfinder 21,3 mm wide x 14,3 mm high
K-7 viewfinder 21,5 mm wide x 14,4 mm high

ie, the K-7 should at least be bigger than that of the D90.

Thomas
08-06-2009, 02:17 PM   #21
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Hi Thomas,

Many thanks.

Yes the k-7 viewfinder is 100% with 92% mag, D90 is 96% with 94%. K-7 should be larger, but I don't know. Maybe you are right. Well, these small difference does not matter and 100% coverage is really cool. Plus, I do love Pentax color more. That is most important to me. Nikon is too warm.

About the ease of use, I assign fn to be AF modes. And I am not so professional that always looking through VF. :-) I prefer Nikon's control over this and also the WB and QUAL controls and like use button with dial together. Well, personal preference. I can live with that. I just want a quick button to format the card. Hope in next firmware release they can add: double delete = delete all, and dellete+green=format card.

Now what really matters with me is the front focus issue. I am waiting for a 16-45 lens to try but leaning toward the body problem since I heard of that before in DPR Pentax forum.

Tony
08-06-2009, 02:22 PM   #22
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Am I the only person who isn't seeing the images and/or link on this?
Brian
08-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #23
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On what? Front focusing? In my another post
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/69100-severe-front...-50-1-4-a.html
and see this:
Six Pentax K-7, all failed :(: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


Last edited by fulcrumx29; 08-06-2009 at 02:40 PM.
08-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Instead of pixel peeping, comparing miliseconds and whatnot, consider this:

weather sealing + built-in image stabilization. Nuff said.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to post something similar. I doubt if you compared a A3+ images shot by either camera, one could distinguish which was shot with which camera.
08-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #25
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Yes you are right. I believe as long as I fix my front focusing issue I will see more details in K-7 than D90. Actually, I already saw the colors of K-7 is more realistic. D90 color is just weird. And I prefer K-7's rubber grip and dials too.

Tony
08-06-2009, 02:49 PM   #26
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Viewfinders and stuff

Hi According to Pentax (various other threads/forums) The K-7 viewfinder is purposely darker for more critical focusing such as MF. This is usually not something you would notice as better unless you had lots of experience with this. Pentax's market is driven by the availability of legacy manual glass so this viewfinder tweak makes sense to me. To me the K-7 seems larger with more coverage but I have only compared a few times. The D-90 would be probably my "other brand choice" but a few things hold me back. For one skin tones with Nikon seem too warm to me and although I could fix it in PP it bugs me a bit. For the price it should be sealed and the D300 which is sealed is too large for my taste. and Last Nikon dont make pancakes...lenses that is. As far as sensors go the D-90 is nice but the K-7 is close especially after some NIK Define (My fave) Personally my K10D does great and one day I will jump but I alway advise to buy what suits your style best. You may find size,weight, small primes and in body SR outweigh the DXO results.
Cheers
Roger
08-06-2009, 03:00 PM   #27
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Sure. K-7 is better overall. Now only the front focus. I have ordered a replacement and wonder why no one responds to my test photos.

Tony
08-06-2009, 04:40 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
You took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to post something similar. I doubt if you compared a A3+ images shot by either camera, one could distinguish which was shot with which camera.
Wait, you mean shoot pictures? To actually look at and/or print? Are you nuts?!?!?

Cameras exist so that people can perform machine tests on them to determine which is best. It is exciting - can you feel it?

Yeah, I can't either. I'm gonna to shoot some more hot rods as the sun drops. High altitude and bright sun make it a little hard on sensors...









and one from the EP1


Last edited by nostatic; 08-06-2009 at 04:53 PM.
08-06-2009, 08:29 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Instead of pixel peeping, comparing miliseconds and whatnot, consider this:

weather sealing + built-in image stabilization. Nuff said.
And AF adjustment - a real biggie for me.
08-06-2009, 10:04 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by fulcrumx29 Quote

In this comparison, D90 seems to win a little. I guess most of 2 and 3 could indicate the AF50/1.4d is superior to FA 50/1.4 in light amount point of view. Any thoughts?
You seem to have forgotten in-camera shake reduction. Unless you already have a cabinet full of Nikon VR lenses, this is a HUGE advantage for the K-7 IMO and is far more important than the niggling differences you have enumerated.

Rob
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