What´s wrong with my K10D?

Affe · 08-09-2009, 11:58 AM

The noise, or what you might call this distortion, was from day one. New to digital
I first thought this was because I´ve under exposed. This is not the case in the example pic. The histogram is just what my "teacher tought me".
Pentax service partner here in Sweden replaced the ccd and the comment on the service slip was: Replaced ccd. Adjusted settings. Compared with reference camera without deviation.
This picture is taken after the replacement but the problem stays the same. It can produce perfect pics but in light situations like this I get these ugly zig-zag patterns. And night shots? Forget it!
Change of ISO, Noice reduction on/off or any other setting that I can think of shows no result for the better.

I´m about to toss the camera into the wall and abandon my 36 years of Pentax.
Any ideas out there?

EXIF.
ImageWidth - 160
ImageLength - 120
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 2
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K10D
StripOffset - 79652
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 120
StripByteCount - 57600
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
PlanarConfiguration - 1
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K10D Ver 1.30
DateTime - 2009:08:06 10:09:12
ExifOffset - 79334
ExposureTime - 1/180 seconds
FNumber - 11.00
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 400
DateTimeOriginal - 2009:08:06 10:09:12
DateTimeDigitized - 2009:08:06 10:09:12
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Spot
Flash - Flash fired, Compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 55.00 mm
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Manual
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 82 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
SubjectDistanceRange - Close view

Attached Images

systemA · 08-09-2009, 12:19 PM

I'm not sure if this will help in your situation, but i've heard about issues with the default sharpness settings + Noise reduction. I can't imagine that your first CCD and the replaced CCd both yield the same problems, so I figure it must be something with the settings.

pcarfan · 08-09-2009, 12:31 PM

What I see is horizontal banding...I've heard of the vertical banding issues with early K10D's, but never this...but, again I am no expert. My hunch is, it is a sensor and associated circuitry problem. You should show this image to the service department and have them fix it.

Wait for more experienced folks here to reply and then proceed.

stevebrot · 08-09-2009, 12:35 PM

Show your image to the Pentax Service guys.

I have been shooting with the K10D for 2-1/2 years and have never seen anything like this except maybe at ISO 1600 in "available darkness" conditions. Something is dreadfully wrong.

Steve

benjikan · 08-09-2009, 01:00 PM

As far as I am concerned, that is a faulty sensor, no ifs ands or buts.

Yikes

Sorry, Ben

jct us101 · 08-09-2009, 02:16 PM

Now that's interesting.

jimby · 08-09-2009, 03:53 PM

The horizontal banding can be caused by proximity to strong electromagnetic fields. To rule out this issue, you might want to confirm that you are not next to any strong electromagnetic field generators (high voltage power lines, transformers, generators, etc.).

Also test the camera away from the location where you get the banding. It's a long shot, but others have had this problem occasionally.

Affe · 08-10-2009, 12:44 AM

The example pic of the little rabbit was taken outdoors at a Café far from any transformers and such. I take my photos mostly oudoors. So if I´m not
under a UFO´s survelliance, thats not the case.
I´ve reformatted the sd card, tried a different card, battery, lenses...

This next example pic was taken with external flash and a manual Tokina SD 70-210 zoom. It was underexposed and corrected +1,5. The background is a no-pattern satin like fabric. You see no banding in their faces or on the guys shirt.
But her blue shirt, red hair, background and microphone stand are effected.
I have so many examples of this but I can´t see what the pic´s have in common
to cause this.

I will send it to service once again with a link to this thread. Hopefully with a comment from someone who really knows what the problem is.

Miserere · 08-10-2009, 12:18 PM

If this happens in most of your photos, send the camera in to service, including as many pictures as you can displaying the effect in different lighting conditions (to convince the technitians that it's not a light problem, and it's not transitory).

There will always be more noise and artifacts in dark areas, but not like this. My K10D is 2 years old and has never shown anything that looks like your issue.

Send it in, and make sure they get down to the bottom of the issue. Better yet, request that they send you a new unit.

jantjooh · 08-11-2009, 07:32 AM

Hello,
There have been problems reported with the battery grip attached. Do U use one? If so, test the cam without the battery grip.
Regards from Holland!

The_Lion · 08-11-2009, 01:55 PM

The horizontal banding caused by the battery grip doesn't look like the effect in the pictures above. It ist visible in high ISO pictures, not at ISO 400. If there aren't any electro-magnetic fields (antennas, mobile phones), it could be a problem with a circuit inside the camera.

regor · 08-11-2009, 03:28 PM

This looks like RF (Radio Frequency) interferences to me. Providing you've eliminated all possible SD Card issues, my bet would not be on the CCD being defective, but perhaps some issue with the internal shielding; unless you like to walk around with an intense RF emitting device on you.

**Kerrowdown** · 08-11-2009, 03:43 PM

Just an aside is the bloke on the left Kevin Bacon, cos it sure looks like him.

My vote is on a duff sensor.

jamesm007 · 08-11-2009, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by regor

This looks like RF (Radio Frequency) interferences to me. Providing you've eliminated all possible SD Card issues, my bet would not be on the CCD being defective, but perhaps some issue with the internal shielding; unless you like to walk around with an intense RF emitting device on you.

I bet it is as well. I have seen the pattern many times with my old Samsung GX10 (same as K10D). Its very hard to pin point the exact source but it can be many things and over one mile from you. I have taken pics right nest to a cell phone power antenna station with no problems, I have taken pics right next to a TV antenna no problems, but in one large area my camera pics up interference from something, my best guess through some experimenting is its a weather radar dome thats near me, but it may not be the cause.

Here is one example

a crop to show the pattern better

Are all your pics taken within a one mile radius? If so I would try driving far, over 5 miles take some pics and see it its still there. If so the camera is generating its own interference and show them your pics and this time they should get your camera back to you faster as this is a redo on a repair not done right

Martytoof · 08-11-2009, 08:25 PM

Wow, I just experienced this for the first time this past weekend. I completely chalked it up to a random occurence since it hasn't happened to me before or since. Showed up in two of my photos, but I haven't been able to reproduce it.

Definitely most pronounced in this photo:

Photos shot 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after don't show any banding, though I did find another one with a small amount of the same taken relatively close to the problem photo. I took them from the same location on a public street so I figure it's entirely possible I was standing over a transformer or under some power lines or something.

08-09-2009, 11:58 AM	#1
Affe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 40	What´s wrong with my K10D? The noise, or what you might call this distortion, was from day one. New to digital I first thought this was because I´ve under exposed. This is not the case in the example pic. The histogram is just what my "teacher tought me". Pentax service partner here in Sweden replaced the ccd and the comment on the service slip was: Replaced ccd. Adjusted settings. Compared with reference camera without deviation. This picture is taken after the replacement but the problem stays the same. It can produce perfect pics but in light situations like this I get these ugly zig-zag patterns. And night shots? Forget it! Change of ISO, Noice reduction on/off or any other setting that I can think of shows no result for the better. I´m about to toss the camera into the wall and abandon my 36 years of Pentax. Any ideas out there? EXIF. ImageWidth - 160 ImageLength - 120 BitsPerSample - 8 8 8 Compression - 1 (None) PhotometricInterpretation - 2 Make - PENTAX Corporation Model - PENTAX K10D StripOffset - 79652 Orientation - Top left SamplesPerPixel - 3 RowsPerStrip - 120 StripByteCount - 57600 XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 PlanarConfiguration - 1 ResolutionUnit - Inch Software - K10D Ver 1.30 DateTime - 2009:08:06 10:09:12 ExifOffset - 79334 ExposureTime - 1/180 seconds FNumber - 11.00 ExposureProgram - Manual control ISOSpeedRatings - 400 DateTimeOriginal - 2009:08:06 10:09:12 DateTimeDigitized - 2009:08:06 10:09:12 ExposureBiasValue - 0.00 MeteringMode - Spot Flash - Flash fired, Compulsory flash mode FocalLength - 55.00 mm SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor CustomRendered - Normal process ExposureMode - Manual White Balance - Manual FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 82 mm SceneCaptureType - Standard Contrast - Normal Saturation - Normal Sharpness - Normal SubjectDistanceRange - Close view Attached Images

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08-09-2009, 12:19 PM	#2
systemA Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 385	I'm not sure if this will help in your situation, but i've heard about issues with the default sharpness settings + Noise reduction. I can't imagine that your first CCD and the replaced CCd both yield the same problems, so I figure it must be something with the settings.

08-09-2009, 12:31 PM	#3
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	What I see is horizontal banding...I've heard of the vertical banding issues with early K10D's, but never this...but, again I am no expert. My hunch is, it is a sensor and associated circuitry problem. You should show this image to the service department and have them fix it. Wait for more experienced folks here to reply and then proceed.

08-09-2009, 12:35 PM	#4
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Show your image to the Pentax Service guys. I have been shooting with the K10D for 2-1/2 years and have never seen anything like this except maybe at ISO 1600 in "available darkness" conditions. Something is dreadfully wrong. Steve

08-09-2009, 01:00 PM	#5
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	As far as I am concerned, that is a faulty sensor, no ifs ands or buts. Yikes Sorry, Ben

08-09-2009, 02:16 PM	#6
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	Now that's interesting.

08-09-2009, 03:53 PM	#7
jimby Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 77	The horizontal banding can be caused by proximity to strong electromagnetic fields. To rule out this issue, you might want to confirm that you are not next to any strong electromagnetic field generators (high voltage power lines, transformers, generators, etc.). Also test the camera away from the location where you get the banding. It's a long shot, but others have had this problem occasionally.

08-10-2009, 12:18 PM	#9
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	If this happens in most of your photos, send the camera in to service, including as many pictures as you can displaying the effect in different lighting conditions (to convince the technitians that it's not a light problem, and it's not transitory). There will always be more noise and artifacts in dark areas, but not like this. My K10D is 2 years old and has never shown anything that looks like your issue. Send it in, and make sure they get down to the bottom of the issue. Better yet, request that they send you a new unit.

08-11-2009, 07:32 AM	#10
jantjooh Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 39	Hello, There have been problems reported with the battery grip attached. Do U use one? If so, test the cam without the battery grip. Regards from Holland!

08-11-2009, 01:55 PM	#11
The_Lion New Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Travemünde, Germany Posts: 9	The horizontal banding caused by the battery grip doesn't look like the effect in the pictures above. It ist visible in high ISO pictures, not at ISO 400. If there aren't any electro-magnetic fields (antennas, mobile phones), it could be a problem with a circuit inside the camera.

08-11-2009, 03:28 PM	#12
regor Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Victoria, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 356	This looks like RF (Radio Frequency) interferences to me. Providing you've eliminated all possible SD Card issues, my bet would not be on the CCD being defective, but perhaps some issue with the internal shielding; unless you like to walk around with an intense RF emitting device on you.

08-11-2009, 03:43 PM	#13
Kerrowdown PEG Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Highlands of Scotland... "Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand" - William Blake Photos: Gallery Posts: 57,819	Just an aside is the bloke on the left Kevin Bacon, cos it sure looks like him. My vote is on a duff sensor.

08-11-2009, 06:08 PM	#14
jamesm007 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit MI, USA Posts: 508	Originally posted by regor This looks like RF (Radio Frequency) interferences to me. Providing you've eliminated all possible SD Card issues, my bet would not be on the CCD being defective, but perhaps some issue with the internal shielding; unless you like to walk around with an intense RF emitting device on you. I bet it is as well. I have seen the pattern many times with my old Samsung GX10 (same as K10D). Its very hard to pin point the exact source but it can be many things and over one mile from you. I have taken pics right nest to a cell phone power antenna station with no problems, I have taken pics right next to a TV antenna no problems, but in one large area my camera pics up interference from something, my best guess through some experimenting is its a weather radar dome thats near me, but it may not be the cause. Here is one example a crop to show the pattern better Are all your pics taken within a one mile radius? If so I would try driving far, over 5 miles take some pics and see it its still there. If so the camera is generating its own interference and show them your pics and this time they should get your camera back to you faster as this is a redo on a repair not done right

08-11-2009, 08:25 PM	#15
Martytoof New Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 14	Wow, I just experienced this for the first time this past weekend. I completely chalked it up to a random occurence since it hasn't happened to me before or since. Showed up in two of my photos, but I haven't been able to reproduce it. Definitely most pronounced in this photo: Photos shot 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after don't show any banding, though I did find another one with a small amount of the same taken relatively close to the problem photo. I took them from the same location on a public street so I figure it's entirely possible I was standing over a transformer or under some power lines or something.