K20 multi metering ?

FHPhotographer · 08-14-2009, 09:49 PM

Am I reading this correctly in the K20 manual (p98) that Multi-Segment Metering does not work unless a Pentax lens is attached? Or am I missing something in the blizzard of controls and settings? I don't know how much I'd use it, but I'd like to find out but it's disabled with a third-party lens?
Brian

**Ash** · 08-15-2009, 01:10 AM

No Brian, Pentax dSLRs don't discriminate OEM and non-OEM lenses that way.
All auto-aperture lenses (ie. Pentax A, F, FA, DA lenses and their non-OEM equivalents) are able to communicate metering information with the camera and so can be auto-metered.

FHPhotographer · 08-15-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Ash

No Brian, Pentax dSLRs don't discriminate OEM and non-OEM lenses that way.
All auto-aperture lenses (ie. Pentax A, F, FA, DA lenses and their non-OEM equivalents) are able to communicate metering information with the camera and so can be auto-metered.

Yeah, they can be "auto metered" but they can't use one of the auto metering settings, and that's my point. The K20 Manual sez: "The center-weighted metering mode is automatically set even if you select multi-segement metering mode when using a lens other than a DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F or A, or when the lens aperture ring is set at other than A...." (emphasis added).
Now pictures maybe I'm not so good at, but I'm pretty good with words. As written, that sentence means exactly that mutli-segment metering isn't available with any lens other than these listed Pentax lenses or by setting the aperture ring to other than "A". Now, the camera may say it's using multi-segment metering, but I have no way of testing that; for all I know, the camera is doing exactly what the manual says, and automatically setting the metering mode to center-weighted and somewhere inside the camera a very tiny tiny person is giggling wildly at my confusion,
Brian

octavmandru · 08-15-2009, 12:38 PM

No way! My Tamron and Sigma lenses are third party lenses and camera is doing multi segment metering.
You can connect the camera with Remote Assistant and you will see the setting changing accordingly. Also can be seen in exif data.

Das Boot · 08-15-2009, 12:48 PM

This is one of the main motivations behind the hack project thread floating around in this section. Getting more functionality out of M/M42 lenses (selectable focal points for indication only/multi segment metering).

Marc Sabatella · 08-15-2009, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by FHPhotographer

Yeah, they can be "auto metered" but they can't use one of the auto metering settings, and that's my point. The K20 Manual sez: "The center-weighted metering mode is automatically set even if you select multi-segement metering mode when using a lens other than a DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F or A, or when the lens aperture ring is set at other than A...." (emphasis added).
Now pictures maybe I'm not so good at, but I'm pretty good with words. As written, that sentence means exactly that mutli-segment metering isn't available with any lens other than these listed Pentax lenses or by setting the aperture ring to other than "A"

If you take it extraordinarily literally, sure, it might look that way. But that's not is meant, and it is simple enough to test that with a non-pentax lens. If the multi-segment metering option isn't greyed out, it works. And unless your K20D is different form my K200D, DS, or my wife's K100D - all of which contain the exact same wording in the manual - than you'll find it works just fine. It is quite clear that when they say DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F, or A, they are listing all the lens *types* it works with. Any third party lens that is compatible with one of those lenses will work fine.

Quote:

Now, the camera may say it's using multi-segment metering, but I have no way of testing that; for all I know, the camera is doing exactly what the manual says, and automatically setting the metering mode to center-weighted

It's enough to test that using a lens that is *not* compatible with one of those lens types (or moving the aperture ring off "A") actually greys out the option. That's the behavior they mean.

FHPhotographer · 08-15-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by octavmandru

No way! My Tamron and Sigma lenses are third party lenses and camera is doing multi segment metering.
You can connect the camera with Remote Assistant and you will see the setting changing accordingly. Also can be seen in exif data.

Well, one of two things is going on: the manual is wrong, or the camera is wrong.

I too see the mutli-segment setting as well in the camera and the exif data in Bridge, but what I don't see is any appreciable differences in images on screen. Maybe there's subtle, and I'm going to try some different shots looking for it and will post. However, that's why I went looking in the manual and found that cite.

Is it possible the the camera is saying it's using that "pattern" metering and loading that as RAW data, but actually defaulting to center-weighted the way the manual describes it? I'm out of my depth here, but there is a disconnect somewhere; let's hope it's just a copy error and all is well,
Brian

FHPhotographer · 08-15-2009, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

If you take it extraordinarily literally, sure, it might look that way. But that's not is meant

I have no response to that. I can only go by what the thing says, not what the reader thinks the writer may have meant to say. It says that. If the consensus is that it's wrong, that's fine and I'm happy to have it that way. At this point I'm going to drop it and go about trying to learn to use the K20 + Tamron with, or without, multi-metering. I don't even know what the functional difference is supposed to be between pattern/center weighted/spot, but I'm going to go looking for an explanation. It'll work, or it won't, and I'll use it or I won't,
Brian

Marc Sabatella · 08-15-2009, 08:41 PM

I am not going by what what it says but what it does - or at least, what other models that have the same passage in theirs manuals do. And as I said, they it very clearly *do* support multi-segment metering for appropriate non-Pentax lenses, just as they *do* very clearly support P, Av, and Tv mode, multiple AF points, and p-TTL flash for non-Pentax lenses despite almost identical wording that says all of these things only work for the same list of Pentax lenses.

But FWIW, I wouldn't say the manual is "wrong", per se. It's just written from a perspective of not acknowledging the existence of third party lenses.

08-14-2009, 09:49 PM	#1
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	K20 multi metering ? Am I reading this correctly in the K20 manual (p98) that Multi-Segment Metering does not work unless a Pentax lens is attached? Or am I missing something in the blizzard of controls and settings? I don't know how much I'd use it, but I'd like to find out but it's disabled with a third-party lens? Brian

08-15-2009, 12:04 PM	#3
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297 Original Poster	Sorry, but that's not what the manual says... Originally posted by Ash No Brian, Pentax dSLRs don't discriminate OEM and non-OEM lenses that way. All auto-aperture lenses (ie. Pentax A, F, FA, DA lenses and their non-OEM equivalents) are able to communicate metering information with the camera and so can be auto-metered. Yeah, they can be "auto metered" but they can't use one of the auto metering settings, and that's my point. The K20 Manual sez: "The center-weighted metering mode is automatically set even if you select multi-segement metering mode when using a lens other than a DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F or A, or when the lens aperture ring is set at other than A...." (emphasis added). Now pictures maybe I'm not so good at, but I'm pretty good with words. As written, that sentence means exactly that mutli-segment metering isn't available with any lens other than these listed Pentax lenses or by setting the aperture ring to other than "A". Now, the camera may say it's using multi-segment metering, but I have no way of testing that; for all I know, the camera is doing exactly what the manual says, and automatically setting the metering mode to center-weighted and somewhere inside the camera a very tiny tiny person is giggling wildly at my confusion, Brian Last edited by FHPhotographer; 08-15-2009 at 12:35 PM.

08-15-2009, 02:31 PM	#7
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297 Original Poster	The manual's wrong, or the camera's wrong... Originally posted by octavmandru No way! My Tamron and Sigma lenses are third party lenses and camera is doing multi segment metering. You can connect the camera with Remote Assistant and you will see the setting changing accordingly. Also can be seen in exif data. Well, one of two things is going on: the manual is wrong, or the camera is wrong. I too see the mutli-segment setting as well in the camera and the exif data in Bridge, but what I don't see is any appreciable differences in images on screen. Maybe there's subtle, and I'm going to try some different shots looking for it and will post. However, that's why I went looking in the manual and found that cite. Is it possible the the camera is saying it's using that "pattern" metering and loading that as RAW data, but actually defaulting to center-weighted the way the manual describes it? I'm out of my depth here, but there is a disconnect somewhere; let's hope it's just a copy error and all is well, Brian

08-15-2009, 02:35 PM	#8
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297 Original Poster	Meant? Originally posted by Marc Sabatella If you take it extraordinarily literally, sure, it might look that way. But that's not is meant I have no response to that. I can only go by what the thing says, not what the reader thinks the writer may have meant to say. It says that. If the consensus is that it's wrong, that's fine and I'm happy to have it that way. At this point I'm going to drop it and go about trying to learn to use the K20 + Tamron with, or without, multi-metering. I don't even know what the functional difference is supposed to be between pattern/center weighted/spot, but I'm going to go looking for an explanation. It'll work, or it won't, and I'll use it or I won't, Brian

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08-15-2009, 01:10 AM	#2
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	No Brian, Pentax dSLRs don't discriminate OEM and non-OEM lenses that way. All auto-aperture lenses (ie. Pentax A, F, FA, DA lenses and their non-OEM equivalents) are able to communicate metering information with the camera and so can be auto-metered.

08-15-2009, 12:38 PM	#4
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	No way! My Tamron and Sigma lenses are third party lenses and camera is doing multi segment metering. You can connect the camera with Remote Assistant and you will see the setting changing accordingly. Also can be seen in exif data.

08-15-2009, 12:48 PM	#5
Das Boot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sparkle City, South Cackalacky Photos: Gallery Posts: 689	This is one of the main motivations behind the hack project thread floating around in this section. Getting more functionality out of M/M42 lenses (selectable focal points for indication only/multi segment metering).

08-15-2009, 02:23 PM	#6
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by FHPhotographer Yeah, they can be "auto metered" but they can't use one of the auto metering settings, and that's my point. The K20 Manual sez: "The center-weighted metering mode is automatically set even if you select multi-segement metering mode when using a lens other than a DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F or A, or when the lens aperture ring is set at other than A...." (emphasis added). Now pictures maybe I'm not so good at, but I'm pretty good with words. As written, that sentence means exactly that mutli-segment metering isn't available with any lens other than these listed Pentax lenses or by setting the aperture ring to other than "A" If you take it extraordinarily literally, sure, it might look that way. But that's not is meant, and it is simple enough to test that with a non-pentax lens. If the multi-segment metering option isn't greyed out, it works. And unless your K20D is different form my K200D, DS, or my wife's K100D - all of which contain the exact same wording in the manual - than you'll find it works just fine. It is quite clear that when they say DA, D FA, FA J, FA, F, or A, they are listing all the lens types it works with. Any third party lens that is compatible with one of those lenses will work fine. Quote: Now, the camera may say it's using multi-segment metering, but I have no way of testing that; for all I know, the camera is doing exactly what the manual says, and automatically setting the metering mode to center-weighted It's enough to test that using a lens that is not compatible with one of those lens types (or moving the aperture ring off "A") actually greys out the option. That's the behavior they mean.

08-15-2009, 08:41 PM	#9
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I am not going by what what it says but what it does - or at least, what other models that have the same passage in theirs manuals do. And as I said, they it very clearly do support multi-segment metering for appropriate non-Pentax lenses, just as they do very clearly support P, Av, and Tv mode, multiple AF points, and p-TTL flash for non-Pentax lenses despite almost identical wording that says all of these things only work for the same list of Pentax lenses. But FWIW, I wouldn't say the manual is "wrong", per se. It's just written from a perspective of not acknowledging the existence of third party lenses.