AF.C and Bust Mode

daacon · 05-16-2007, 06:39 AM

While I have not had the opportunity to try this I was wondering the following. Assuming one is shooting some sort of action (bird in flight, Son making a tackle, moving car, etc..) and the k10d is on burst mode , is it best to set the focus on AF.C ? This seems to make sense to me. Anyone got any experience with this ?

thx........Dave

-spam- · 05-16-2007, 06:44 AM

As a general rule, yes. If your subject is moving then you want it in focus in every frame you shoot. AF-C is the only way to achieve this. Just make sure that the focus point that you have selected (i find the center one works best) is on the subject the whole time.

KennJ · 05-16-2007, 07:01 AM

Unless you have a good fast lens and a bright day this will give you alot of unfocused shots or misses while the camera searches around trying to get right from what I have experienced. I find that burst is great but it is better to lift and shoot to refocus if at all possable for better focus results.For panning iAF-C works great for me as long as the shake reduction is off.
Kenn

daacon · 05-16-2007, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by KennJ

Unless you have a good fast lens and a bright day this will give you alot of unfocused shots or misses while the camera searches around trying to get right from what I have experienced. I find that burst is great but it is better to lift and shoot to refocus if at all possable for better focus results.For panning iAF-C works great for me as long as the shake reduction is off.
Kenn

haha just noticed the Freudian slip "Bust Mode" - A good fast lens would without a doubt be a requirement - I have a couple relatively fast - 50 f1.7 and Tamron 28-75 f2.8.

It seesm to me I read a post (Will maybe) about AF.C and focus issues ,not sure it was with Burst mode, from some of his voleyball expereince.

Panning using AF.C with SR off from your experience is that with a tripod or handheld or both ? What kind of action were you shooting ?

Sounds like either way AF.S is more than likley what I will need to use. Then I guess the question is AF.C is for less 'active photos' ? Perhaps in a studio shoot ?

daacon · 05-16-2007, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by -spam-

As a general rule, yes. If your subject is moving then you want it in focus in every frame you shoot. AF-C is the only way to achieve this. Just make sure that the focus point that you have selected (i find the center one works best) is on the subject the whole time.

Thanks Center point good tip - will give it a go

Mr CJ · 05-16-2007, 08:56 AM

I never use AF.C while shooting sports. Unlike the *istDL in AF.C mode, the K10D will release the shutter even if the picture is not focused. I tried this during a little league baseball game and ended up with a lot of unusable shots cause they were out of focus. Or I ended up missing shots while I waited for the AF.C to lock on. Now I use AF.S. It's easier to just refocus on the center point than to wait for AF.C to lock on.

**kmccanta** · 05-16-2007, 09:40 AM

Two things I will note here:

1) the center "point" is a large area. I suggest that you draw a black line on a poice of blank paper and practice focussing on it with the various focus points. You will learn something useful about your camera.

2) AF.c does not mean all your shots are continually in focus. it means that the camera will continue to adjust focus even after the first time it achieves focus, AND it will take a picture anytime you fully press the button whether focus is achieved or not. THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN THE PICTURE IS FOCUSED PROPERLY!! the camera will just do what it is told.

The frustrating part about #2 is that it takes practice. With AF.s you will miss action shots that were in focus, because the framing subject moved out of the selected focus area, or the camera wasnt sure about focus (dark, no contrast, or too many subject distances within the large focus area)

But with AF.c you will get more shots, that wont be in focus because you are used to pressing hte button in response to the action, not also waiting for focus. You must practice AF.c to get used to mentally checking focus before fully pressing the shutter release.

-k

Mr CJ · 05-16-2007, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by kmccanta

Two things I will note here:

1) the center "point" is a large area. I suggest that you draw a black line on a poice of blank paper and practice focussing on it with the various focus points. You will learn something useful about your camera.

2) AF.c does not mean all your shots are continually in focus. it means that the camera will continue to adjust focus even after the first time it achieves focus, AND it will take a picture anytime you fully press the button whether focus is achieved or not. THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN THE PICTURE IS FOCUSED PROPERLY!! the camera will just do what it is told.

The frustrating part about #2 is that it takes practice. With AF.s you will miss action shots that were in focus, because the framing subject moved out of the selected focus area, or the camera wasnt sure about focus (dark, no contrast, or too many subject distances within the large focus area)

But with AF.c you will get more shots, that wont be in focus because you are used to pressing hte button in response to the action, not also waiting for focus. You must practice AF.c to get used to mentally checking focus before fully pressing the shutter release.

-k

#2 will work fine in single shot mode, but kind of defeats the purpose of burst mode. Your eye will never be quicker than the action. I capture more usable (focused) shots in AF.S burst mode (not using center point focus) than with AF.C burst mode.

daacon · 05-16-2007, 12:13 PM

Thanks for the tips all - I see some practice will be in order to match my abilities to the K10D -

General question then since there seems to be some difference of opinions on when to use AF.C is there any situation where it would provide useful ? I suppose single shots of someone walking slowly and panning them? That may be useful in a surveillance situation if I worked for the FBI / CIA or was a PI haha (would have to buck up for a much quieter set of lenses than I currently have!)

roscot · 05-16-2007, 12:14 PM

This is what I found worked best for me at the last air show I shot.

Camera set to AF-C
Focus Point on Auto Select (The only time I use this setting)
Camera set to single shot drive mode. (You could use burst mode, but I still prefer to pick my shots.)

This worked great. I didn't miss any shot because of mis-focusing.

This works well when you have a clean background, and the AF system can easily find it's target. It would not work so well where you have a lot of visually active elements near your target. The
Auto select mode could easily focus on the wrong element of the scene.

**kmccanta** · 05-16-2007, 12:30 PM

Well, any action situation AF.c is great. BUT, you should half-press to get subject in focus, then hold down for a burst. The camera should track the subject reasonably well. But iff you grab the camera and full press, the first shots may not be anywhere near focused. Depends on lots of stuff.

Its the first shot of th eburst that you have to decide on. In AF.s mode, I missed plenty of decent shots because the camera hadnt decided it was best focused. I didnt care, it was close enough, I wanted the shutter to fire. AF.c does this, but my reactions need to be trained to not grab and stab the shutter release.

daacon · 05-16-2007, 12:40 PM

I can see some merit on several points, specifically the last couple - clean backgroud single item to focus on (af.c )would work well (airshow) - First shot in a burst be focused and ready makes perfect sense too -

Looking forward to some experimentation - I can see an issue with let's say Football where before the snap I can isolate a single focal point (say my son!!) and as the players burst off the line af.c may have an issue with 30 or so bodies to know look at.

Love the 'grap and stab' comment - biggest reason to leave it in af.s

Guilty of that myself ...

matix · 05-16-2007, 02:01 PM

Daacon, you made my day.. I had to go grab a coffee and read this thread again to make sure I had not missed a feature in my K10D that would make my beach shots easier.

'Bust' mode? Here you had to clarify it as a typo, I was thinking of 'birds in flight' as someone stated, running along the beach as I tried to hold the camera steady while the SR frantically moved up and down.

Oh well, the coffee has hit, and I am awake and now understanding of the question.. sigh, reality has hit and I now read on.

Great thread though, constructive and thought provoking responses.

Phil

WMBP · 05-16-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Mr CJ

I never use AF.C while shooting sports. Unlike the *istDL in AF.C mode, the K10D will release the shutter even if the picture is not focused. I tried this during a little league baseball game and ended up with a lot of unusable shots cause they were out of focus. Or I ended up missing shots while I waited for the AF.C to lock on. Now I use AF.S. It's easier to just refocus on the center point than to wait for AF.C to lock on.

This is my experience, too. I generally find AF.S more reliable.

The pictures of flying birds in this gallery and in this other gallery were taken, I'm almost certain, with AF.S (with a K100D, not with my K10D). I like to pan, and I do use burst mode from time to time. But I'm almost never doing this on a tripod - always hand held. I leave shake reduction on. Sometimes it doesn't work as I expect, but sometimes it does.

Will

daacon · 05-16-2007, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by matix

Daacon, you made my day..
'Bust' mode? Here you had to clarify it as a typo, I was thinking of 'birds in flight' as someone stated, running along the beach as I tried to hold the camera steady while the SR frantically moved up and down.
Phil

Matix a little laughter a day is a good thing glad I could help out ! My typing skills even after many years on the keyboard well suck

I think I found the setting you were hopping for how this ?
Name: Bustmode.jpg
Views: 534
Size: 56.2 KB

05-16-2007, 06:39 AM	#1
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914	AF.C and Bust Mode While I have not had the opportunity to try this I was wondering the following. Assuming one is shooting some sort of action (bird in flight, Son making a tackle, moving car, etc..) and the k10d is on burst mode , is it best to set the focus on AF.C ? This seems to make sense to me. Anyone got any experience with this ? thx........Dave

05-16-2007, 12:14 PM	#10
roscot Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach VA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,363	This is what I found worked best for me at the last air show I shot. Camera set to AF-C Focus Point on Auto Select (The only time I use this setting) Camera set to single shot drive mode. (You could use burst mode, but I still prefer to pick my shots.) This worked great. I didn't miss any shot because of mis-focusing. This works well when you have a clean background, and the AF system can easily find it's target. It would not work so well where you have a lot of visually active elements near your target. The Auto select mode could easily focus on the wrong element of the scene.

05-16-2007, 02:01 PM	#13
matix Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 239	AF.C and Bust Mode? We have that? Daacon, you made my day.. I had to go grab a coffee and read this thread again to make sure I had not missed a feature in my K10D that would make my beach shots easier. 'Bust' mode? Here you had to clarify it as a typo, I was thinking of 'birds in flight' as someone stated, running along the beach as I tried to hold the camera steady while the SR frantically moved up and down. Oh well, the coffee has hit, and I am awake and now understanding of the question.. sigh, reality has hit and I now read on. Great thread though, constructive and thought provoking responses. Phil

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05-16-2007, 06:44 AM	#2
-spam- Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 354	As a general rule, yes. If your subject is moving then you want it in focus in every frame you shoot. AF-C is the only way to achieve this. Just make sure that the focus point that you have selected (i find the center one works best) is on the subject the whole time.

05-16-2007, 07:01 AM	#3
KennJ Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk , Va. Photos: Gallery Posts: 132	Unless you have a good fast lens and a bright day this will give you alot of unfocused shots or misses while the camera searches around trying to get right from what I have experienced. I find that burst is great but it is better to lift and shoot to refocus if at all possable for better focus results.For panning iAF-C works great for me as long as the shake reduction is off. Kenn

05-16-2007, 07:21 AM	#4
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	Originally posted by KennJ Unless you have a good fast lens and a bright day this will give you alot of unfocused shots or misses while the camera searches around trying to get right from what I have experienced. I find that burst is great but it is better to lift and shoot to refocus if at all possable for better focus results.For panning iAF-C works great for me as long as the shake reduction is off. Kenn haha just noticed the Freudian slip "Bust Mode" - A good fast lens would without a doubt be a requirement - I have a couple relatively fast - 50 f1.7 and Tamron 28-75 f2.8. It seesm to me I read a post (Will maybe) about AF.C and focus issues ,not sure it was with Burst mode, from some of his voleyball expereince. Panning using AF.C with SR off from your experience is that with a tripod or handheld or both ? What kind of action were you shooting ? Sounds like either way AF.S is more than likley what I will need to use. Then I guess the question is AF.C is for less 'active photos' ? Perhaps in a studio shoot ?

05-16-2007, 07:22 AM	#5
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	Originally posted by -spam- As a general rule, yes. If your subject is moving then you want it in focus in every frame you shoot. AF-C is the only way to achieve this. Just make sure that the focus point that you have selected (i find the center one works best) is on the subject the whole time. Thanks Center point good tip - will give it a go

05-16-2007, 08:56 AM	#6
Mr CJ Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 94	I never use AF.C while shooting sports. Unlike the *istDL in AF.C mode, the K10D will release the shutter even if the picture is not focused. I tried this during a little league baseball game and ended up with a lot of unusable shots cause they were out of focus. Or I ended up missing shots while I waited for the AF.C to lock on. Now I use AF.S. It's easier to just refocus on the center point than to wait for AF.C to lock on.

05-16-2007, 09:40 AM	#7
kmccanta Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 218	Two things I will note here: 1) the center "point" is a large area. I suggest that you draw a black line on a poice of blank paper and practice focussing on it with the various focus points. You will learn something useful about your camera. 2) AF.c does not mean all your shots are continually in focus. it means that the camera will continue to adjust focus even after the first time it achieves focus, AND it will take a picture anytime you fully press the button whether focus is achieved or not. THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN THE PICTURE IS FOCUSED PROPERLY!! the camera will just do what it is told. The frustrating part about #2 is that it takes practice. With AF.s you will miss action shots that were in focus, because the framing subject moved out of the selected focus area, or the camera wasnt sure about focus (dark, no contrast, or too many subject distances within the large focus area) But with AF.c you will get more shots, that wont be in focus because you are used to pressing hte button in response to the action, not also waiting for focus. You must practice AF.c to get used to mentally checking focus before fully pressing the shutter release. -k

05-16-2007, 09:56 AM	#8
Mr CJ Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 94	Originally posted by kmccanta Two things I will note here: 1) the center "point" is a large area. I suggest that you draw a black line on a poice of blank paper and practice focussing on it with the various focus points. You will learn something useful about your camera. 2) AF.c does not mean all your shots are continually in focus. it means that the camera will continue to adjust focus even after the first time it achieves focus, AND it will take a picture anytime you fully press the button whether focus is achieved or not. THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN THE PICTURE IS FOCUSED PROPERLY!! the camera will just do what it is told. The frustrating part about #2 is that it takes practice. With AF.s you will miss action shots that were in focus, because the framing subject moved out of the selected focus area, or the camera wasnt sure about focus (dark, no contrast, or too many subject distances within the large focus area) But with AF.c you will get more shots, that wont be in focus because you are used to pressing hte button in response to the action, not also waiting for focus. You must practice AF.c to get used to mentally checking focus before fully pressing the shutter release. -k #2 will work fine in single shot mode, but kind of defeats the purpose of burst mode. Your eye will never be quicker than the action. I capture more usable (focused) shots in AF.S burst mode (not using center point focus) than with AF.C burst mode.

05-16-2007, 12:13 PM	#9
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	Thanks for the tips all - I see some practice will be in order to match my abilities to the K10D - General question then since there seems to be some difference of opinions on when to use AF.C is there any situation where it would provide useful ? I suppose single shots of someone walking slowly and panning them? That may be useful in a surveillance situation if I worked for the FBI / CIA or was a PI haha (would have to buck up for a much quieter set of lenses than I currently have!)

05-16-2007, 12:30 PM	#11
kmccanta Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 218	Well, any action situation AF.c is great. BUT, you should half-press to get subject in focus, then hold down for a burst. The camera should track the subject reasonably well. But iff you grab the camera and full press, the first shots may not be anywhere near focused. Depends on lots of stuff. Its the first shot of th eburst that you have to decide on. In AF.s mode, I missed plenty of decent shots because the camera hadnt decided it was best focused. I didnt care, it was close enough, I wanted the shutter to fire. AF.c does this, but my reactions need to be trained to not grab and stab the shutter release.

05-16-2007, 12:40 PM	#12
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	I can see some merit on several points, specifically the last couple - clean backgroud single item to focus on (af.c )would work well (airshow) - First shot in a burst be focused and ready makes perfect sense too - Looking forward to some experimentation - I can see an issue with let's say Football where before the snap I can isolate a single focal point (say my son!!) and as the players burst off the line af.c may have an issue with 30 or so bodies to know look at. Love the 'grap and stab' comment - biggest reason to leave it in af.s Guilty of that myself ...

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05-16-2007, 02:19 PM	#14
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by Mr CJ I never use AF.C while shooting sports. Unlike the *istDL in AF.C mode, the K10D will release the shutter even if the picture is not focused. I tried this during a little league baseball game and ended up with a lot of unusable shots cause they were out of focus. Or I ended up missing shots while I waited for the AF.C to lock on. Now I use AF.S. It's easier to just refocus on the center point than to wait for AF.C to lock on. This is my experience, too. I generally find AF.S more reliable. The pictures of flying birds in this gallery and in this other gallery were taken, I'm almost certain, with AF.S (with a K100D, not with my K10D). I like to pan, and I do use burst mode from time to time. But I'm almost never doing this on a tripod - always hand held. I leave shake reduction on. Sometimes it doesn't work as I expect, but sometimes it does. Will

05-16-2007, 04:03 PM	#15
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	Originally posted by matix Daacon, you made my day.. 'Bust' mode? Here you had to clarify it as a typo, I was thinking of 'birds in flight' as someone stated, running along the beach as I tried to hold the camera steady while the SR frantically moved up and down. Phil Matix a little laughter a day is a good thing glad I could help out ! My typing skills even after many years on the keyboard well suck I think I found the setting you were hopping for how this ?