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08-24-2009, 12:15 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
My best advise regarding "crop factor" or APS-C vs FF is FORGET ABOUT IT! If you aren't getting as much in the frame as you want, use a shorter lens. If you see too much or want your subject bigger, use a longer one. Relax. It's about the image, not about numbers marked on a lens barrel.
I agree with this sentiment but with one caveat... "digital only" lenses (e.g. DA series) will for the most part vignette badly on your film cameras.

Three of my favorite lenses (DA12-24, DA*50-135 and Tamron 17-50) are all but worthless on my PZ-1 and Super Program because of vignetting (the 50-135 is "usable" from about 90mm out, with the lens hood removed).

08-24-2009, 08:18 PM   #17
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After all this discussion on the FF or APS-C, I went to google and did some research. All of you can tell me what it is or isn't but until I actually see what is what, it was not getting through to me. I found a site that explained it pretty much and showed what it was like with a photo or two. Now! I know the difference from film to digital and what I can expect to find when using the new camera.


SelrahCharleS. I don't like rebates and I am not sure how long this is good for. I can't just go out today and buy that camera, I'm on a fixed income so after rent, utilities and food, I have to save what's left to buy the camera. But thanks for showing me that anyway.

Marc Sabatella: I hate the LCD on my Nikon. Sun reflects the shooting here and it's awful.

I think someone said it was used to check if photos are in focus? I'm not sure how that would work if you're shooting and you need to see if the photo you took is actually in focus and still be able to take another shot of that bird if it's moving. May be I didn't express that part right but I'm trying to think what I meant to say, and I'll get back to you on that.

Venturi: no DA lenses yet. I have AF lenses, manual lenses and A lenses. And after I get the digital the one film camera is going up for sale. I don't need three cameras, just lots of lenses.
08-26-2009, 08:52 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
After all this discussion on the FF or APS-C, I went to google and did some research. All of you can tell me what it is or isn't but until I actually see what is what, it was not getting through to me. I found a site that explained it pretty much and showed what it was like with a photo or two. Now! I know the difference from film to digital and what I can expect to find when using the new camera.


SelrahCharleS. I don't like rebates and I am not sure how long this is good for. I can't just go out today and buy that camera, I'm on a fixed income so after rent, utilities and food, I have to save what's left to buy the camera. But thanks for showing me that anyway.

Marc Sabatella: I hate the LCD on my Nikon. Sun reflects the shooting here and it's awful.

I think someone said it was used to check if photos are in focus? I'm not sure how that would work if you're shooting and you need to see if the photo you took is actually in focus and still be able to take another shot of that bird if it's moving. May be I didn't express that part right but I'm trying to think what I meant to say, and I'll get back to you on that.

Venturi: no DA lenses yet. I have AF lenses, manual lenses and A lenses. And after I get the digital the one film camera is going up for sale. I don't need three cameras, just lots of lenses.
Actually APS stands for "Advanced Photo System", a film cassette format with 24mm film in it. It was popular here in the 70's and 80's. Perhaps you can remember these small cassette holding cameras. The C in APS C stands for the width of the photo taken. There were 3 widths in use: H (16:9), C (3:2) and P(anorama): 3.1. As it must be clear by now, an APSC sensor should be: 24x36mm.

Full Frame refers sensors with the size of a 135 standard camera film used in most modern film cameras which is 35mm in higth. It uses 3:2 aspect ratio as well. There is also 220 film that is for 4"x5" photos. There were many more film formats in the past. You can buy digital camera's with much larger sensors than FF and also much smaller than APSC (compacts).
Next to that there is the FourThirds format (Olympus, Leica, Panasonic). It uses the same hight as APSC, but less width, it uses a 4:3 aspect ratio. Because it is more square, you can make the diameter of your lenses smaller to cover the sensor area. Lenses become even smaller as with APSC (or digital) lenses.

In general one can say: the bigger the sensor, the less noise or the more pixels, the bigger the camera and the bigger the lenses and the bigger the wallet.

Digital preview is used to examine the DOF of a given situation, it is an option versus optical preview where the aperture ring is closed. Life view is so slow that it only works for passive subjects, something to be done on a tripod or so, then you have ample time to check and work on focus. I guess you'd need stuffed birds to make that work for you

Have fun with your K20D, it is a real asset.

- Bert
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Actually APS stands for "Advanced Photo System", a film cassette format with 24mm film in it. It was popular here in the 70's and 80's. Perhaps you can remember these small cassette holding cameras. The C in APS C stands for the width of the photo taken. There were 3 widths in use: H (16:9), C (3:2) and P(anorama): 3.1. As it must be clear by now, an APSC sensor should be: 24x36mm.
Should this not read 16mm film and the APS-C size be 16X24mm? 24X36 is the size of a 35mm film negative/slide or so called FF sensors.

08-27-2009, 08:40 AM   #20
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I was referring to the not full frame and the APS-C sensor, not what the sensor stands for. Doesn't matter to me, if the camera works it works, and I could care less about the technical aspects of why. And by the way, I read all that on the site I found that showed me a photo of the difference between FF and not ff.

Now I have another question. Funds for me are iffy most of the time, and it would probably take me until next year to get enough money saved up to by the K20d. So, I've been looking at KEH and used cameras.

Would any of you buy a used digital? KEH has two K100d's in a price range I could afford to buy one this month.

Is there a problem with how many times the camera's shutter has been actuated? I have seen a statement on here in other threads about the amount a shutter has been actuated and wasn't sure if this would be a problem or not.
08-27-2009, 08:57 AM   #21
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I would not have a problem buying from KEH. They are very good to deal with.
08-27-2009, 09:06 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
I was referring to the not full frame and the APS-C sensor, not what the sensor stands for. Doesn't matter to me, if the camera works it works, and I could care less about the technical aspects of why. And by the way, I read all that on the site I found that showed me a photo of the difference between FF and not ff.

Now I have another question. Funds for me are iffy most of the time, and it would probably take me until next year to get enough money saved up to by the K20d. So, I've been looking at KEH and used cameras.

Would any of you buy a used digital? KEH has two K100d's in a price range I could afford to buy one this month.

Is there a problem with how many times the camera's shutter has been actuated? I have seen a statement on here in other threads about the amount a shutter has been actuated and wasn't sure if this would be a problem or not.
Although I could not find any references, I believe most Pentax shutters can handle 100,000 actuations.
Most amatures will never reach that number I guess.

The K100D, while a fine camera has 2 limitations I think are important to be aware of:
1/ It cannot handle "newer" SDM lenses. It just doesn't have to logic on board.
2/ It does not have shake reduction.

A K100D Super will "solve" these issues, if you'd consider them issues.

- Bert
08-27-2009, 09:40 AM   #23
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Use Bing cashback and you can save anywhere from 6-10%. I used Bing to buy my K-7 online from Adorama and I saved about $65. By the way, the K-7 is my very first dSLR and I love it! Good luck with your search! You can't go wrong with a dSLR.

08-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #24
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pingflood I trust KEH, I have purchased from the many times in the last year. Both my film cameras came from them. I also had a lenses I bought was not satisfied with and they were very good when I returned it. Got all my money back plus shipping. I don't know anywhere you buy something and return it, where you get your shipping back too. I've very happy with KEH.

Bert, I'm not an amatuer. I used to shoot 15 to 20 rolls of film a day. Most 36 frames. But I doubt I would shoot that many today. And what would happen if one did shoot that many?
Thanks for the information on what this camera will or won't do. But since I've never used a DSLR, what are SDM lenses?

Shake reduction probably won't matter to me as I use a tripod and remote shutter release when I encounter where I need shake reduction shots.


Peter, I am looked for used because I'm on a fixed income that's a lot less than most people on a fixed income have.
08-27-2009, 11:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Although I could not find any references, I believe most Pentax shutters can handle 100,000 actuations.
Most amatures will never reach that number I guess.

The K100D, while a fine camera has 2 limitations I think are important to be aware of:
1/ It cannot handle "newer" SDM lenses. It just doesn't have to logic on board.
2/ It does not have shake reduction.

A K100D Super will "solve" these issues, if you'd consider them issues.
The K100D *does* feature SR; it was the first model to do so. The only significant differences between the original and the Super are the SDM support and the "dust removal" sensor-shake facility.
08-27-2009, 12:00 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
The K100D *does* feature SR; it was the first model to do so. The only significant differences between the original and the Super are the SDM support and the "dust removal" sensor-shake facility.
Marc, you are right.

And photolady, 20x36 = 720 photos, that means that it'd take you 100,000 / 720 = 139 days to get at 100,000 actuations.
I don't expect the shutter to fail the very minute you'd reach that number, but I'd consider buying both of them K100D's
By the way SDM stands for Supersonic Drive Motor.
Those lenses hold a small motor to focus the lens.
They do not use the internal drive of the camera. It is more smooth, somewhat faster and quiet.
Almost all (not all) SDM lenses are also weather and dust sealed, what I personally think is the biggest asset
08-27-2009, 12:15 PM   #27
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QuoteQuote:
Originally posted by Marc..The K100D *does* feature SR; it was the first model to do so.
Thanks Marc for clarifying that. It will help.

bymy, 720 x 365+- days!? That wasn't just one day, that was most days I went shooting and most days were all days. I shot a lot of film back then, about 8 years ago. I was out almost every day.

If one uses up that many, the shutter stops firing? You mean there is no way to reset the shutter and/or even deleting photos doesn't count? That's bad. At the end of 100,000 you have to buy a new camera? Perhaps that's a reason to stick with film cameras.

So, what does super sonic drive motor actually mean? And which lenses have this option?

Oh, and someone/member on here has offered to let me handle his K100D to see if that's what I want. Isn't that nice of him? I thought/think so too.
08-27-2009, 12:24 PM   #28
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Shutters on film cameras give out too. But many are designed to be replaceable/serviceable, which isn't necessarily as true with digital.
08-27-2009, 01:23 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote

So, what does super sonic drive motor actually mean?
Didn't I just explain that?
SDM is with all DA* lenses and the DA 17-70mm, the latter is not environmental sealed.

QuoteOriginally posted by photolady Quote
Oh, and someone/member on here has offered to let me handle his K100D to see if that's what I want. Isn't that nice of him? I thought/think so too.
That's real nice!
08-27-2009, 01:42 PM   #30
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Although most cameras have a shutter rating of 100,000 actuations many go double or three times as long as that. Some camera's have shutters rated at 150,000, or up to 300,000 for the higher end models.

SDM lenses (DA*16-50, DA*50-135, DA17-70, DA*55mm...thus far) have motors in the lens rather than using the screw drive in the camera body. These lenses are near silent to use (hense - supersonic), but can only be used on newer camera bodies that have the computer components to use this feature. If you use them on an older DSLR it will engage the screw drive (if the SDM lens has the ability to screw drive - I think some SDM lenses have both options in them). They are all weather sealed as well, much like the Pentax DSLR bodies over the past few years.

Hope this helps

c[_]
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