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08-29-2009, 01:16 PM   #16
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Worth a thousand words.....

Still holds true here. Let's see them or a link that works. I'm curious, not that I don't trust your word.
I just did a shoot of my 64 yr old wife and then compared her to the new Miss Universe, along with some "panty peeking" etc, and my wife was every bit as fine.....well up to about age 19. Want to see, or just take my word?
LOL
Regards
Rupert

Correction: My wife just walked by, and she is still better, like a fine aged wine......It was my mistake, I seem to make a lot of them!

08-29-2009, 01:24 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Thomas, thank you for your comments...that D700 is such a sweeeaaat camera, glad I read what you have to say...you make an excellent point about the dof and having to stop down nullifying the iso advantage somewhat...never thought of it that way.
.

This is actually the main complaint I hear from my FF friends these days - too little DOF == the need to stop down == raise ISO to maintain shutter speed == increased noise & a bit less contrast/DR. Of course, with FF, they have more overhead in those areas to work with, but it still can negate some of the advantage.

I don't consider the DOF difference a plus for FF, personally.
08-29-2009, 01:55 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Thomas, thank you for your comments...that D700 is such a sweeeaaat camera, glad I read what you have to say...you make an excellent point about the dof and having to stop down nullifying the iso advantage somewhat...never thought of it that way.
Yes, razor-thin DOF in many real-life situations is a pain. Anyone who ever struggled getting all of a subject or group in focus when using a 50/F1.4 at wide-open aperture on an APS-C will shudder to think of the same situation on a FF.

See Equivalence where the "superiority" of FF is put in its place.

Dan

Last edited by dosdan; 08-29-2009 at 02:10 PM.
08-29-2009, 03:35 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Thomas, thank you for your comments...that D700 is such a sweeeaaat camera, glad I read what you have to say...you make an excellent point about the dof and having to stop down nullifying the iso advantage somewhat...never thought of it that way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
That puts things in perfect perspective Thomas.
Thanks for sharing that - a point often disregarded.
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.

This is actually the main complaint I hear from my FF friends these days - too little DOF == the need to stop down == raise ISO to maintain shutter speed == increased noise & a bit less contrast/DR. Of course, with FF, they have more overhead in those areas to work with, but it still can negate some of the advantage.

I don't consider the DOF difference a plus for FF, personally.
QuoteOriginally posted by dosdan Quote
Yes, razor-thin DOF in many real-life situations is a pain. Anyone who ever struggled getting all of a subject or group in focus when using a 50/F1.4 at wide-open aperture on an APS-C will shudder to think of the same situation on a FF.
I think this is one of those things that people forget until they're facing it. For some reason, when we talk about DOF, it seems we only focus on the benefits of shallow DOF and subject isolation, never the issues associated with it... With the D700, I had several shots with the 105/2.8 stopped down to f/16 or below with the subject still not being entirely in focus. Very annoying.

Thomas

08-31-2009, 05:58 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ktwse Quote
I think this is one of those things that people forget until they're facing it. For some reason, when we talk about DOF, it seems we only focus on the benefits of shallow DOF and subject isolation, never the issues associated with it... With the D700, I had several shots with the 105/2.8 stopped down to f/16 or below with the subject still not being entirely in focus. Very annoying.

Thomas

On 8X10 format you run into that problem too....though with skilled application of tilt/shift these problems are solvable. Such a shame pentax don't make any T/S lenses.
08-31-2009, 06:07 AM   #21
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Just keep in mind that you're comparing a $2700 body to a $1300 body (USD @ B&H)
08-31-2009, 10:24 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by therion Quote
I´m sorry, I have used this attachment, is not it working?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42059&stc=1&d=1251484943
I don't see anything however you can see the difference on high ISO.

800 iso aps-c vs 3200 iso FF

But i don't think is good make similar comparison because the size of the sensor is different.

Even some good compact camera produce good shoot at low ISO.
08-31-2009, 10:29 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
I have both the D700 and K-7 as well and Jpegs are very close, but you can't compare noise (about 2maybe more stops better), AF speed, and DOF...But the K-7 does hold it own as far as image quality goes in ISO levels under 800
Javier, how many cameras do you own?

08-31-2009, 10:45 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
Javier, how many cameras do you own?
Hmmm, good question.
DSLR's in my home.
1 K1OODS (My sons)
1 K10D
2 K20D's
1 k-7
1 D700
1 D40 (My wife's)
1 D200 (My oldest daughter)
1 D300 (My oldest daughter)

Point and shoots
1 SD780IS
1 G9
1 G10

Bridge cameras
1 Fuji S100FS
1 Fuji S9100

SLRs
1 Canon AE-1
3 ME supers
1 ME-F
2 Spotmatics
2 K1000's
1 LX
1 645n

Yep , too much stuff which is why I have started to sell some of it off. It is beyond ridiculous and I am actually embarrassed by it. Don't ask me about lenses
08-31-2009, 10:46 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Yep , too much stuff which is why I have started to sell some of it off. It is beyond ridiculous and I am actually embarrassed by it. Don't ask me about lenses
what about lenses?

08-31-2009, 10:58 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Hmmm, good question.
DSLR's in my home.
1 K1OODS (My sons)
1 K10D
2 K20D's
1 k-7
1 D700
1 D40 (My wife's)
1 D200 (My oldest daughter)
1 D300 (My oldest daughter)

Point and shoots
1 SD780IS
1 G9
1 G10

Bridge cameras
1 Fuji S100FS
1 Fuji S9100

SLRs
1 Canon AE-1
3 ME supers
1 ME-F
2 Spotmatics
2 K1000's
1 LX
1 645n

Yep , too much stuff which is why I have started to sell some of it off. It is beyond ridiculous and I am actually embarrassed by it. Don't ask me about lenses
I don't see a problem with the film SLR's though I wonder why you have 3 ME supers? but the digitals... wow. that's some serious cash. particularly when you add in the D700. how on earth did you come to own 2 k20's AND a K-7? and if you have these three cameras, why on earth do you still have a K10?

I envy some of your list though. the LX for sure. id trade that 645 for a 6x7 though. much more fun. the D700 is a real neat camera though. id actually like to have one. can you use non AI nikkors?

Last edited by séamuis; 08-31-2009 at 11:03 AM.
08-31-2009, 11:06 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Yeah, but you're missing the point... FF isn't about just resolution, it's about DOF control,
Well, the difference between 24x46mm and aps-c is only 1.3 EV in aperture changes and this is hardly noticeable.

Try looking at pictures on print and on internet and try for yourself to say _anything_ about which camera, which lens or which aperture was used to take that picture.
08-31-2009, 11:19 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I don't see a problem with the film SLR's though I wonder why you have 3 ME supers? but the digitals... wow. that's some serious cash. particularly when you add in the D700. how on earth did you come to own 2 k20's AND a K-7? and if you have these three cameras, why on earth do you still have a K10?

I envy some of your list though. the LX for sure. id trade that 645 for a 6x7 though. much more fun. the D700 is a real neat camera though. id actually like to have one. can you use non AI nikkors?
And that's what I mean.
The way I ended up with the K20ds and K-7 is simple really.
I bought a K20D the first day it was available and I bought the second one before Christmas from Amazon for $550.00 (before they realized their mistake as was noted here on the forum) The K-7 I also pre ordered as well....

The main reason I bought the D700 was because I got so used to the view finders on my ME SUPERS that I wanted the same in digital so I got the D700 at a good price. I got a $300.00 rebate and paid $2300.00 for it. I could not pass up the deal. I have two lenses so far for it. The 12-24 F/2.8 and the 70-200F/2.8. My next lens purchase will be the 24-70F/2.8 which is why I am selling some things.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/70912-sale-lenses-tcs.html Normally, I would have just bought the Lens, but told myself I would only buy it once I sold off some things and I have sold most of what I put up. Still Nikon glass is super expensive.

As for the ME-SUPERS, I love them. What can I say. I have all three in my truck always and all three are set up differently.
1 has the M40F/2.8 with Ilford XP-2, another has the Tokina 28mm with Fuji 400XTRA, still the other has a 50f/1.4 800 superia in it. The ME-F has the Tokina 17mm lens with Velvia 50 in it right now. So yep. lots of stuff....
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