K100 for $300? Good Deal?

X Man · 09-04-2009, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

Yeah, taking 3 successive shots for an HDR will take a K100D out of commision (I mean totally - you cannot change any settings or do anything at all) for just shy of 5 seconds. Not cool.

Look, I know you speak the truth. But, dood... I own one.

Now, cut it out.

Regards,
Mike

PolishMike · 09-04-2009, 05:33 PM

Oh, but I feel your pain, I do. I will think of you next time I'm shooting away at 5FPS...

I will stop twisting the knife now ;P

It's funny how the things that sell cameras and that reviews will pore over (ISO performance, sensor resolution, burst fps, quality of screen, auto white balance, jpeg output and so on) really didn't bother me about the K100D, but little design flaws barely any review noticed - like that buffer clearing time, the lack of a physical AF.C switch, no top LCD backlight, no 5-frame bracketing, having to go into a menu to change ISO - actually impacted my photography severely on many occasions.

Don't get me wrong here - I love the K100D. It was just about the first truly affordable dSLR (£300 for a dSLR kit when I got mine was unheard of) that was not some crippled toy and allowed the likes of me to get into this whole scene.
It was one of the cameras that basically created the "consumer dSLR" market, and beats the current generation of such offerings from other brands in many respects - 11 AF points, in-body SR... Add to that the fact that you could buy good manual glass from the 70s and 80s for next to nothing and it made the perfect camera for someone truly wantingto get into photography, but without oodles of cash. This is almost the opposite philosophy to bigger brands - most entry-level dSLRs assume the user is an idiot with too much money. They will shove P+S style automatic modes down your throat while removing some truly useful features and crippling the body (Nikon's removal of the in-body AF motor, no bracketing on the D40...).

deadprez · 09-04-2009, 07:39 PM

I got everything in my sig for $450 Canadian except for the 50mm

I think you can do better then $300

If you do get the k100d make sure you do the firmware upgrade to v1.02 so you can use higher capacity sd card.

deadprez · 09-04-2009, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

The K10D will be a camera you are less likely to outgrow and doesn't have some of the rather annoying limitations of the K100D (no SDM lens support, no wireless flash, no front e-wheel, tiny 3-frame buffer, missing some useful physical controls, smallish viewfinder, some of them are finnicky with battery life) - I think no matter what kind of photography you are into, you will eventually find yourself missing some features of the K10. I'd say get a K10D even if it means spending a bit more.
The K100D was my first SLR and got more than 3 years of solid use - then again, I spent a large portion of these 3 years kicking myself over not getting a K10

Also, I recall a deal where you could get a brand new K100D for £160 - quite a bit less than $300, and UK prices are usually a rip-off - you should be able to do better than that.

Yes but can your K10D take AA batteries ??

PolishMike · 09-04-2009, 08:01 PM

I have almost thrown my K100D into a ravine or off a bridge on more than a couple of occasions because of the bloody AAs. I'm not even kidding. When I clamber up a fence to get a good view of some nice rail tracks, sit there for ages and my camera decides to switch itself off just as a train is passing by and refuses to switch back on for 2 minutes, I get annoyed. Now I'm a patient man, but when this happens 20 times during a day, with freshly charged Eneloops, it's not good for my blood pressure.

It all seems like a great idea until it becomes obvious that ordinary AAs are not designed for such high load applications and the circuitry of the camera was not properly designed to deal with rechargable AA voltage levels (or at least it was faulty on quite a lot of them). It also seems like a waste of space - a dedicated battery can be designed to have the optimum characteristics for the application and the cells inside it can be packed better.
It's great that you can buy batteries anywhere you need them, but I'd rather have 2-3 dedicated batteries in my bag, which get like 1000 shots per charge (most cameras these days can do this, no?) than burn 4 AAs every 200 shots with the camera constantly switching off.

EDIT: Your mileage may vary. I realise my K100D was faulty, so I didn't bring this up earlier as an argument against it. But this is a common fault with them, and even with at the best of times the AA performance is not up to par when compared to "proper" batteries.

EDIT2: Don't want to clutter the thread further with this discussion, but in reply to the below, here is a list of batteries I used in my K100D, just about chronologically: GP 1800mAh NiMH, GP 2300 NiMH, GP 2700 NiMH, Duracell Alkalines, Sanyo Enelozops, Vapextech Instants (same technology), Uniross Hybrios and finally Kodak CR-V3s. All original. Out of the AAs, the alkalines lasted longest. The hybrio/vapex/eneloops had the big advantage of keeping their charge when stored, but this did not prevent the camera from thinking they were dead at random. The CR-V3s lasted ages and avoided the shut-off problem.

Marc Sabatella · 09-04-2009, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

EDIT: Your mileage may vary. I realise my K100D was faulty, so I didn't bring this up earlier as an argument against it. But this is a common fault with them

No, it's not. It's common for camera to have issues with alkalines, with low capacity NiMH's, or older high capacity NiMH's. It is not common - and indeed, almost unheard of - to have problems with Eneloops.

KJon · 09-04-2009, 08:14 PM

Have to rise to the defense of the K100D. Bought mine in 2007 and it's still going strong. I get 600 shots on NiMH rechargeables and have taken fantastic images with it. I also own the K10D. For the past four months, I've been shooting film exclusively, and at this point, given my druthers, I'd rather shoot the K100D than the K10. After stepping away from digital for a while, I'm willing to admit that I've just never warmed up to the K10. The K100D's high ISO performance blows the K10's away.

And maybe a little more subjectively, I like the IQ from the K100's pics better. I shoot RAW with both and process in LightRoom.

My 2 cents (for what it's worth).

Best to all,
Kevin

P. S. Using the same lenses on both cameras

Last edited by KJon; 09-04-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Add the P. S.

X Man · 09-04-2009, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

Don't get me wrong here - I love the K100D. It was just about the first truly affordable dSLR (£300 for a dSLR kit when I got mine was unheard of) that was not some crippled toy and allowed the likes of me to get into this whole scene.
It was one of the cameras that basically created the "consumer dSLR" market, and beats the current generation of such offerings from other brands in many respects - 11 AF points, in-body SR... Add to that the fact that you could buy good manual glass from the 70s and 80s for next to nothing and it made the perfect camera for someone truly wantingto get into photography, but without oodles of cash. This is almost the opposite philosophy to bigger brands - most entry-level dSLRs assume the user is an idiot with too much money. They will shove P+S style automatic modes down your throat while removing some truly useful features and crippling the body (Nikon's removal of the in-body AF motor, no bracketing on the D40...).

That's better.

I almost bought the little Nikon, but the deal was off when I learned it had no AF servo motor.

Regards,
Mike

deadprez · 09-04-2009, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

It's great that you can buy batteries anywhere you need them, but I'd rather have 2-3 dedicated batteries in my bag, which get like 1000 shots per charge (most cameras these days can do this, no?) than burn 4 AAs every 200 shots with the camera constantly switching off.

hahaha I was just being sarcastic about the AA's

Although I have to admit 400 pics a week with my sanyozzz and no auto shut off.
I hope you didn't have your cam set to auto shut off every 5 mins to preserve the battery.

In the end you get what you pay for ... there is no doubt that the camera you have now is better then your old k100d but im not convinced that its better then my k100 hahahhaha

PolishMike · 09-05-2009, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by deadprez

hahaha I was just being sarcastic about the AA's

Although I have to admit 400 pics a week with my sanyozzz and no auto shut off.
I hope you didn't have your cam set to auto shut off every 5 mins to preserve the battery.

In the end you get what you pay for ... there is no doubt that the camera you have now is better then your old k100d but im not convinced that its better then my k100 hahahhaha

Well, my sarcasm-o-meter certainly loses some edge when it's 4 in the morning

Sorry about the ensuing derail and silly discussion...

I did use auto shut-off, but I'm pretty sure that lets your camera wake up when you half-press the shutter, and not flash "Battery Depleted" across the screen.

As for your last statement, I'll just say that the shutter button on my K-7 is black and it makes a wicked "bwee" sound when you switch it on. Don't cry now, it's just another class of camera entirely

(On the other hand, I now have a hard time taking pictures of mountains, flowers, men running and portraits by a crescent moon. Do any K-7 owners know where these settings have gone??)

09-04-2009, 08:01 PM	#20
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	I have almost thrown my K100D into a ravine or off a bridge on more than a couple of occasions because of the bloody AAs. I'm not even kidding. When I clamber up a fence to get a good view of some nice rail tracks, sit there for ages and my camera decides to switch itself off just as a train is passing by and refuses to switch back on for 2 minutes, I get annoyed. Now I'm a patient man, but when this happens 20 times during a day, with freshly charged Eneloops, it's not good for my blood pressure. It all seems like a great idea until it becomes obvious that ordinary AAs are not designed for such high load applications and the circuitry of the camera was not properly designed to deal with rechargable AA voltage levels (or at least it was faulty on quite a lot of them). It also seems like a waste of space - a dedicated battery can be designed to have the optimum characteristics for the application and the cells inside it can be packed better. It's great that you can buy batteries anywhere you need them, but I'd rather have 2-3 dedicated batteries in my bag, which get like 1000 shots per charge (most cameras these days can do this, no?) than burn 4 AAs every 200 shots with the camera constantly switching off. EDIT: Your mileage may vary. I realise my K100D was faulty, so I didn't bring this up earlier as an argument against it. But this is a common fault with them, and even with at the best of times the AA performance is not up to par when compared to "proper" batteries. EDIT2: Don't want to clutter the thread further with this discussion, but in reply to the below, here is a list of batteries I used in my K100D, just about chronologically: GP 1800mAh NiMH, GP 2300 NiMH, GP 2700 NiMH, Duracell Alkalines, Sanyo Enelozops, Vapextech Instants (same technology), Uniross Hybrios and finally Kodak CR-V3s. All original. Out of the AAs, the alkalines lasted longest. The hybrio/vapex/eneloops had the big advantage of keeping their charge when stored, but this did not prevent the camera from thinking they were dead at random. The CR-V3s lasted ages and avoided the shut-off problem. Last edited by PolishMike; 09-04-2009 at 08:37 PM.

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09-04-2009, 05:03 PM	#16
X Man Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	Originally posted by PolishMike Yeah, taking 3 successive shots for an HDR will take a K100D out of commision (I mean totally - you cannot change any settings or do anything at all) for just shy of 5 seconds. Not cool. Look, I know you speak the truth. But, dood... I own one. Now, cut it out. Regards, Mike

09-04-2009, 05:33 PM	#17
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	Oh, but I feel your pain, I do. I will think of you next time I'm shooting away at 5FPS... I will stop twisting the knife now ;P It's funny how the things that sell cameras and that reviews will pore over (ISO performance, sensor resolution, burst fps, quality of screen, auto white balance, jpeg output and so on) really didn't bother me about the K100D, but little design flaws barely any review noticed - like that buffer clearing time, the lack of a physical AF.C switch, no top LCD backlight, no 5-frame bracketing, having to go into a menu to change ISO - actually impacted my photography severely on many occasions. Don't get me wrong here - I love the K100D. It was just about the first truly affordable dSLR (£300 for a dSLR kit when I got mine was unheard of) that was not some crippled toy and allowed the likes of me to get into this whole scene. It was one of the cameras that basically created the "consumer dSLR" market, and beats the current generation of such offerings from other brands in many respects - 11 AF points, in-body SR... Add to that the fact that you could buy good manual glass from the 70s and 80s for next to nothing and it made the perfect camera for someone truly wantingto get into photography, but without oodles of cash. This is almost the opposite philosophy to bigger brands - most entry-level dSLRs assume the user is an idiot with too much money. They will shove P+S style automatic modes down your throat while removing some truly useful features and crippling the body (Nikon's removal of the in-body AF motor, no bracketing on the D40...).

09-04-2009, 07:39 PM	#18
deadprez Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 113	I got everything in my sig for $450 Canadian except for the 50mm I think you can do better then $300 If you do get the k100d make sure you do the firmware upgrade to v1.02 so you can use higher capacity sd card.

09-04-2009, 07:46 PM	#19
deadprez Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 113	Originally posted by PolishMike The K10D will be a camera you are less likely to outgrow and doesn't have some of the rather annoying limitations of the K100D (no SDM lens support, no wireless flash, no front e-wheel, tiny 3-frame buffer, missing some useful physical controls, smallish viewfinder, some of them are finnicky with battery life) - I think no matter what kind of photography you are into, you will eventually find yourself missing some features of the K10. I'd say get a K10D even if it means spending a bit more. The K100D was my first SLR and got more than 3 years of solid use - then again, I spent a large portion of these 3 years kicking myself over not getting a K10 Also, I recall a deal where you could get a brand new K100D for £160 - quite a bit less than $300, and UK prices are usually a rip-off - you should be able to do better than that. Yes but can your K10D take AA batteries ??

09-04-2009, 08:13 PM	#21
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by PolishMike EDIT: Your mileage may vary. I realise my K100D was faulty, so I didn't bring this up earlier as an argument against it. But this is a common fault with them No, it's not. It's common for camera to have issues with alkalines, with low capacity NiMH's, or older high capacity NiMH's. It is not common - and indeed, almost unheard of - to have problems with Eneloops.

09-04-2009, 08:14 PM	#22
KJon Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Connecticut, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 542	Have to rise to the defense of the K100D. Bought mine in 2007 and it's still going strong. I get 600 shots on NiMH rechargeables and have taken fantastic images with it. I also own the K10D. For the past four months, I've been shooting film exclusively, and at this point, given my druthers, I'd rather shoot the K100D than the K10. After stepping away from digital for a while, I'm willing to admit that I've just never warmed up to the K10. The K100D's high ISO performance blows the K10's away. And maybe a little more subjectively, I like the IQ from the K100's pics better. I shoot RAW with both and process in LightRoom. My 2 cents (for what it's worth). Best to all, Kevin P. S. Using the same lenses on both cameras Last edited by KJon; 09-04-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Add the P. S.

09-04-2009, 09:15 PM	#23
X Man Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	Originally posted by PolishMike Don't get me wrong here - I love the K100D. It was just about the first truly affordable dSLR (£300 for a dSLR kit when I got mine was unheard of) that was not some crippled toy and allowed the likes of me to get into this whole scene. It was one of the cameras that basically created the "consumer dSLR" market, and beats the current generation of such offerings from other brands in many respects - 11 AF points, in-body SR... Add to that the fact that you could buy good manual glass from the 70s and 80s for next to nothing and it made the perfect camera for someone truly wantingto get into photography, but without oodles of cash. This is almost the opposite philosophy to bigger brands - most entry-level dSLRs assume the user is an idiot with too much money. They will shove P+S style automatic modes down your throat while removing some truly useful features and crippling the body (Nikon's removal of the in-body AF motor, no bracketing on the D40...). That's better. I almost bought the little Nikon, but the deal was off when I learned it had no AF servo motor. Regards, Mike

09-04-2009, 09:21 PM	#24
deadprez Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 113	Originally posted by PolishMike It's great that you can buy batteries anywhere you need them, but I'd rather have 2-3 dedicated batteries in my bag, which get like 1000 shots per charge (most cameras these days can do this, no?) than burn 4 AAs every 200 shots with the camera constantly switching off. hahaha I was just being sarcastic about the AA's Although I have to admit 400 pics a week with my sanyozzz and no auto shut off. I hope you didn't have your cam set to auto shut off every 5 mins to preserve the battery. In the end you get what you pay for ... there is no doubt that the camera you have now is better then your old k100d but im not convinced that its better then my k100 hahahhaha

09-05-2009, 04:18 AM	#25
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	Originally posted by deadprez hahaha I was just being sarcastic about the AA's Although I have to admit 400 pics a week with my sanyozzz and no auto shut off. I hope you didn't have your cam set to auto shut off every 5 mins to preserve the battery. In the end you get what you pay for ... there is no doubt that the camera you have now is better then your old k100d but im not convinced that its better then my k100 hahahhaha Well, my sarcasm-o-meter certainly loses some edge when it's 4 in the morning Sorry about the ensuing derail and silly discussion... I did use auto shut-off, but I'm pretty sure that lets your camera wake up when you half-press the shutter, and not flash "Battery Depleted" across the screen. As for your last statement, I'll just say that the shutter button on my K-7 is black and it makes a wicked "bwee" sound when you switch it on. Don't cry now, it's just another class of camera entirely (On the other hand, I now have a hard time taking pictures of mountains, flowers, men running and portraits by a crescent moon. Do any K-7 owners know where these settings have gone??)