K-7 Green Mode??

Vormulac · 09-12-2009, 08:14 AM

Hi all,

After swearing I wasn't going to spend any more money on camera gear this year it was one fondle too many of the shop K-7 yesterday and one just had to come home with me, it's amazing and I'm very happy indeed... with one small exception...

I'm prepared to be told I'm missing something really really obvious here, and before you yell "RTFM" at me, I only got it yesterday so I haven't had time to read it all yet, but from what I can see so far I can't take RAW shots in green mode.
That's obviously not right, it would be nannying of the most absurd nature to assume that nobody who uses Green mode is going to want RAW files, so I'm clearly doing something wrong - can someone point out how to enable RAW in Green, please?

As it happens I don't normally use Green mode, but I do very occasionally when I don't want to have to think too hard.

Cheers!

kittykat46 · 09-12-2009, 08:32 AM

You can't shoot RAW in Green Mode on the K-7. Almost everthing else in the camera is also locked up at default settings.

The next best thing is to set it to P - Program Mode. If you leave everything else at Default settings, its basically the same as Green Mode. You can certainly set RAW capture in P mode - just use the Control Panel screen - you don't even need to dive into the Custom Menu.

Vormulac · 09-12-2009, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the reply, Kitty. I have to say I'm astounded that Pentax have taken this insane decision. On those rare occasions I would use Green I'll just have to get used to using P and pressing the green button (I believe this basically gives you the same settings as Green mode would).

pcarfan · 09-12-2009, 09:01 AM

You don't have to press the green button, unless you are using some old M42 lenses with an adapter and the like. With modern lenses you don't need to use the green button to get exposure in any mode other than fully manual mode 'M' (which by definition need this)

Vormulac · 09-12-2009, 10:17 AM

Ah, of course, the green button just resets it to the program line in 'P' mode.

Thanks folks! (I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though

)

Marc Sabatella · 09-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Vormulac

Ah, of course, the green button just resets it to the program line in 'P' mode.

Thanks folks! (I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though

)

RAW in Green mode makes no sense, because one of the most important things Green mode does above and beyond what P mode does is set the various JPEG settings for you depending on what type of picture it thinks you are trying to take. If it were possible to shoot RAW in Green mode, you wouldn't be getting of that. All you'd be getting was the autoexposure facility, and that's what P mode is for - the Green button is not needed in either mode. OK, in Green mode, the autoexposure might bias in favor of larger/smaller aperture based on what it thinks might be most appropriate for the kind of scene it thinks you are shooting, as opposed to using whatever algorithm your P mode is set to us. But the sort of things Green mode is doing there basically amounts to guesswork - guesisng what kind of scene you are shooting, and guessing what aperture you'd want for that kind of scene. There's essentially no chance that's going to to be an improvement in any way whatsoever over simply shooting P mode.

Vormulac · 09-12-2009, 01:46 PM

I see what you're saying Marc, but I would have thought that given Green mode is basically a non-interactive P&S mode, it would make sense to have the capability that RAW gives you to correct small inadequacies or 'camera-brain' miscalculations about a given scene.
Incidentally, my comments should not be considered a criticism of the camera, I compared it in use and the images I took with a Nikon D300S and the K-7 smoked it! I consider this a very minor 'con' to the otherwise magnificent K-7, but I still think that any time choice is taken away from you that is a 'bad' thing.

Marc Sabatella · 09-12-2009, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Vormulac

I see what you're saying Marc, but I would have thought that given Green mode is basically a non-interactive P&S mode, it would make sense to have the capability that RAW gives you to correct small inadequacies or 'camera-brain' miscalculations about a given scene.

Small inadequacies / miscalculations can be corrected using JPEG, too. Anyhow, I really P mode is what you are looking for.

Vormulac · 09-13-2009, 12:00 AM

To be honest, I do use 'Program' mode more than 'Green' anyway. Still think they should have left us with the option though

Marc Sabatella · 09-13-2009, 11:53 AM

I'm assuming the idea was to make Green mode "idiot proof". That is, an experience user could have his camera set up to use a "regular" exposure mode, shoot RAW, and make whatever other tweaks he wanted, but when he wanted to hand the camera to a friend who had no idea what he was doing, he could quickly flip the dial to Green mode and have *everything* come out the way the inexperienced friend would want it. For that type of usage, you really would want *everything* to come out that way - you wouldn't want to have to remember to also flip the switch to JPEG (and then flip it back afterwards) just to get pictures the friends would know how to use.

Anyhow, hopefully you'll agree it just isn't a big deal one way or another - not "nannying of the most absurd nature" at all, but actually quite logical 99% of the time. And given that P mode covers the other 1%, not worth discussing further further, except for you to say "yes, I see, but I still wish it didn't work that way", and then we can leave it at that :-)

**Aristophanes** · 09-13-2009, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

I'm assuming the idea was to make Green mode "idiot proof". That is, an experience user could have his camera set up to use a "regular" exposure mode, shoot RAW, and make whatever other tweaks he wanted, but when he wanted to hand the camera to a friend who had no idea what he was doing, he could quickly flip the dial to Green mode and have *everything* come out the way the inexperienced friend would want it. For that type of usage, you really would want *everything* to come out that way - you wouldn't want to have to remember to also flip the switch to JPEG (and then flip it back afterwards) just to get pictures the friends would know how to use.

Anyhow, hopefully you'll agree it just isn't a big deal one way or another - not "nannying of the most absurd nature" at all, but actually quite logical 99% of the time. And given that P mode covers the other 1%, not worth discussing further further, except for you to say "yes, I see, but I still wish it didn't work that way", and then we can leave it at that :-)

By your logic, the "friend" shooting (I'll refrain from calling him an idiot to be proofed against) is also doing the workflow getting the shots out of the K-7.

This is highly unlikely. The owner, not the actual shooter, is most likely to have a pre-set workflow. I do, and it's not JPEG……ever. People let other use their camera to take photos of what the camera owner wants, so there should be the preset that this overrides all else.

Now what do I do when my wife wants to use the camera for a few shots of me, and she wants to only use Auto mode (Green mode)? Am I stuck with a tutorial every time? Green also controls the flash.

At the very least, it's not 99% of the time, and it's not alterable, which it should be. There should be an override where JPEG is excluded on all shots (o vice versa), no matter what the mode dial setting (save video).

There's dummy mode, and then there is stupid mode. Give people a choice ;-)

kittykat46 · 09-13-2009, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

........
Now what do I do when my wife wants to use the camera for a few shots of me, and she wants to only use Auto mode (Green mode)? Am I stuck with a tutorial every time? Green also controls the flash....

.

Program mode with the Green Button usually works when I pass the camera to someone who is not familiar with the camera for a few shots, but I still want to retain most of my favourite camera settings....

Class A · 09-13-2009, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Vormulac

(I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though

)

I don't think it is a major problem, but I agree, non-adjustable coupling of usage modes is bad.

A better solution would have been to let the Green mode reset the shooting mode to JPEG but let the user make an adjustment with the "RAW button".

Vormulac · 09-13-2009, 10:59 PM

Exactly like the K10 and K20 before it - that worked very nicely.

Anway, I didn't want to start any arguements on here, it was just an inquiry to which I now have the answer - perhaps Pentax will address their error in the next firmware release.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

NickC · 09-15-2009, 06:04 AM

Does Green mode override the decoupling of the AF from the shutter button?

This is a real moan about the K20D - I like to use the AF button for focussing and the shutter button for taking, but if I hand the camera to someone else to take a shot I have to dive into the custom menu just to reset the AF to half press on the shutter button. I think Green mode should effectively be Manufacturer defaults.

The other option would be for the user mode to have independently settable custom settings, but they seem to apply to all modes.

09-12-2009, 08:14 AM	#1
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219	K-7 Green Mode?? Hi all, After swearing I wasn't going to spend any more money on camera gear this year it was one fondle too many of the shop K-7 yesterday and one just had to come home with me, it's amazing and I'm very happy indeed... with one small exception... I'm prepared to be told I'm missing something really really obvious here, and before you yell "RTFM" at me, I only got it yesterday so I haven't had time to read it all yet, but from what I can see so far I can't take RAW shots in green mode. That's obviously not right, it would be nannying of the most absurd nature to assume that nobody who uses Green mode is going to want RAW files, so I'm clearly doing something wrong - can someone point out how to enable RAW in Green, please? As it happens I don't normally use Green mode, but I do very occasionally when I don't want to have to think too hard. Cheers!

09-13-2009, 03:19 PM	#11
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella I'm assuming the idea was to make Green mode "idiot proof". That is, an experience user could have his camera set up to use a "regular" exposure mode, shoot RAW, and make whatever other tweaks he wanted, but when he wanted to hand the camera to a friend who had no idea what he was doing, he could quickly flip the dial to Green mode and have everything come out the way the inexperienced friend would want it. For that type of usage, you really would want everything to come out that way - you wouldn't want to have to remember to also flip the switch to JPEG (and then flip it back afterwards) just to get pictures the friends would know how to use. Anyhow, hopefully you'll agree it just isn't a big deal one way or another - not "nannying of the most absurd nature" at all, but actually quite logical 99% of the time. And given that P mode covers the other 1%, not worth discussing further further, except for you to say "yes, I see, but I still wish it didn't work that way", and then we can leave it at that :-) By your logic, the "friend" shooting (I'll refrain from calling him an idiot to be proofed against) is also doing the workflow getting the shots out of the K-7. This is highly unlikely. The owner, not the actual shooter, is most likely to have a pre-set workflow. I do, and it's not JPEG……ever. People let other use their camera to take photos of what the camera owner wants, so there should be the preset that this overrides all else. Now what do I do when my wife wants to use the camera for a few shots of me, and she wants to only use Auto mode (Green mode)? Am I stuck with a tutorial every time? Green also controls the flash. At the very least, it's not 99% of the time, and it's not alterable, which it should be. There should be an override where JPEG is excluded on all shots (o vice versa), no matter what the mode dial setting (save video). There's dummy mode, and then there is stupid mode. Give people a choice ;-) Last edited by Aristophanes; 09-13-2009 at 05:53 PM. Reason: warring typos

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09-12-2009, 08:32 AM	#2
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	You can't shoot RAW in Green Mode on the K-7. Almost everthing else in the camera is also locked up at default settings. The next best thing is to set it to P - Program Mode. If you leave everything else at Default settings, its basically the same as Green Mode. You can certainly set RAW capture in P mode - just use the Control Panel screen - you don't even need to dive into the Custom Menu.

09-12-2009, 08:48 AM	#3
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219 Original Poster	Thanks for the reply, Kitty. I have to say I'm astounded that Pentax have taken this insane decision. On those rare occasions I would use Green I'll just have to get used to using P and pressing the green button (I believe this basically gives you the same settings as Green mode would).

09-12-2009, 09:01 AM	#4
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	You don't have to press the green button, unless you are using some old M42 lenses with an adapter and the like. With modern lenses you don't need to use the green button to get exposure in any mode other than fully manual mode 'M' (which by definition need this)

09-12-2009, 10:17 AM	#5
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219 Original Poster	Ah, of course, the green button just resets it to the program line in 'P' mode. Thanks folks! (I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though )

09-12-2009, 11:16 AM	#6
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,686	Originally posted by Vormulac Ah, of course, the green button just resets it to the program line in 'P' mode. Thanks folks! (I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though ) RAW in Green mode makes no sense, because one of the most important things Green mode does above and beyond what P mode does is set the various JPEG settings for you depending on what type of picture it thinks you are trying to take. If it were possible to shoot RAW in Green mode, you wouldn't be getting of that. All you'd be getting was the autoexposure facility, and that's what P mode is for - the Green button is not needed in either mode. OK, in Green mode, the autoexposure might bias in favor of larger/smaller aperture based on what it thinks might be most appropriate for the kind of scene it thinks you are shooting, as opposed to using whatever algorithm your P mode is set to us. But the sort of things Green mode is doing there basically amounts to guesswork - guesisng what kind of scene you are shooting, and guessing what aperture you'd want for that kind of scene. There's essentially no chance that's going to to be an improvement in any way whatsoever over simply shooting P mode.

09-12-2009, 01:46 PM	#7
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219 Original Poster	I see what you're saying Marc, but I would have thought that given Green mode is basically a non-interactive P&S mode, it would make sense to have the capability that RAW gives you to correct small inadequacies or 'camera-brain' miscalculations about a given scene. Incidentally, my comments should not be considered a criticism of the camera, I compared it in use and the images I took with a Nikon D300S and the K-7 smoked it! I consider this a very minor 'con' to the otherwise magnificent K-7, but I still think that any time choice is taken away from you that is a 'bad' thing.

09-12-2009, 06:47 PM	#8
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,686	Originally posted by Vormulac I see what you're saying Marc, but I would have thought that given Green mode is basically a non-interactive P&S mode, it would make sense to have the capability that RAW gives you to correct small inadequacies or 'camera-brain' miscalculations about a given scene. Small inadequacies / miscalculations can be corrected using JPEG, too. Anyhow, I really P mode is what you are looking for.

09-13-2009, 12:00 AM	#9
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219 Original Poster	To be honest, I do use 'Program' mode more than 'Green' anyway. Still think they should have left us with the option though

09-13-2009, 11:53 AM	#10
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,686	I'm assuming the idea was to make Green mode "idiot proof". That is, an experience user could have his camera set up to use a "regular" exposure mode, shoot RAW, and make whatever other tweaks he wanted, but when he wanted to hand the camera to a friend who had no idea what he was doing, he could quickly flip the dial to Green mode and have everything come out the way the inexperienced friend would want it. For that type of usage, you really would want everything to come out that way - you wouldn't want to have to remember to also flip the switch to JPEG (and then flip it back afterwards) just to get pictures the friends would know how to use. Anyhow, hopefully you'll agree it just isn't a big deal one way or another - not "nannying of the most absurd nature" at all, but actually quite logical 99% of the time. And given that P mode covers the other 1%, not worth discussing further further, except for you to say "yes, I see, but I still wish it didn't work that way", and then we can leave it at that :-)

09-13-2009, 07:25 PM	#12
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by Aristophanes ........ Now what do I do when my wife wants to use the camera for a few shots of me, and she wants to only use Auto mode (Green mode)? Am I stuck with a tutorial every time? Green also controls the flash.... . Program mode with the Green Button usually works when I pass the camera to someone who is not familiar with the camera for a few shots, but I still want to retain most of my favourite camera settings....

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09-13-2009, 09:50 PM	#13
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,211	Originally posted by Vormulac (I still think jpg only in Green mode sucks, though ) I don't think it is a major problem, but I agree, non-adjustable coupling of usage modes is bad. A better solution would have been to let the Green mode reset the shooting mode to JPEG but let the user make an adjustment with the "RAW button".

09-13-2009, 10:59 PM	#14
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219 Original Poster	Exactly like the K10 and K20 before it - that worked very nicely. Anway, I didn't want to start any arguements on here, it was just an inquiry to which I now have the answer - perhaps Pentax will address their error in the next firmware release. Thanks for your input, everyone!

09-15-2009, 06:04 AM	#15
NickC Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 53	Does Green mode override the decoupling of the AF from the shutter button? This is a real moan about the K20D - I like to use the AF button for focussing and the shutter button for taking, but if I hand the camera to someone else to take a shot I have to dive into the custom menu just to reset the AF to half press on the shutter button. I think Green mode should effectively be Manufacturer defaults. The other option would be for the user mode to have independently settable custom settings, but they seem to apply to all modes.