You mean 2/10 of a millimeter is either side, right?

Radu

Nobody talks about K-X's bigger sensor, 2mm on the each side, 12MP, in theory K-X will be very good on DR because of lesser pixel density, maybe it will better than K7. We'll see the results soon, I might get a K-X instead of K-7, the only thing matters to me is IQ. And the only thing lacks on K-x will be PC-Synch socket for me. I am getting remote flash synch stuff anyway. Oh one more thing, rotational WR would be nicer too.

We'll see.

Aristophanes: Pentax did this camera to offer market a lighter and cheaper but a decent camera with >10MP, it's not aimed to photographers, but it aimed the not photographer photographers, and the snap shooters etc. so IMO downgrade - upgrade comparisons with K200D is pointless. I believe after Christmas K-x body will sell less than 400 USD on the market, this tells the whole story...

Main complaint to Pentax from us should be lack of a FF camera here, I am not holding my breath but it will be with us like less than 2 years I guess.

[cbaytan]

You mean 2/10 of a millimeter is either side, right?

Radu

Is it so? My bad memory, sorry.

[Mike Cash]

I think the next generation will be named K-2 and K-2DMD.

Mike Cash would not be pleased with this new camera name... lol

I won't be happy until they bring back the open-aperture metering M42 mount.

[lithos]

Pentax hasn't made the camera that would fulfill all my hopes and dreams, but there's in no way have I given up my ability to be pleasantly surprised by them.

The K-7 and K-x both appear solid. It's amazing - let's face it, Pentax really hasn't been on top of the world (save for student cameras with the K1000) since the Spotmatic. But they've doggedly kept on since then with a bunch of gear that innovates, delights, and presents exceedingly good value. How many times have you seen some photographer's website, who shoots Nikon or Canon or Leica, say that he or she started out with a Spotmatic, or K1000, or an ME Super?

Sure, the K-x mightn't have every single feature on the planet, but, dammit, it's $650US. What the hell do you want? And, I'd say, it's probably not aimed at anyone who's already on PentaxForums - it's aimed at that rich and deep market that is the newcomer to DSLR photography demographic.

Give the Canon or Nikon options in the same category, the K-x punches well above its weight. The colours are a damn good feature. Those, I'll bet, were aimed at those who might never even consider bothering with a DSLR. It's true. There're those who'll buy something depending on what colour it comes it. It's got video, which'll attract those used to having it on their P&S cameras. It's got the same shutter as the K-7, which means it's fast and quiet, and also saves Pentax money. It's easy-to-use.

And, yes, dammit, it takes AAs. That, my friends, is a thing most excellent. No, they're not technically better than a dedicated LiIon. But then, I'd posit, if you're the kinda guy who mulls over shots-per-battery, this camera's not aimed at you. Same goes for the pentamirror in lieu of a prism. Or the smorgasbord of in-camera filters (you don't HAVE to use those, by the way.)

But Pentax, whether on its own with the new-found Hoya money, or because of Hoya's direct intervention, is obtaining a bit more iniative. It's getting a bit more creative, and that'll be good for ALL us Pentaxians. Pentax is still ticking along, which, up until the K-7, I was worried about.

One thing most Pentaxians seem to recognise is when something's good value for money. So don't lose sight of that. The K-x, need I remind you (and, dammit, I wish this was something more reviewers took into account) is a bloody bargain.

I predict it will be more popular than mouthwash in a brothel.

[tr13]

What do you mean under "open-aperture metering M42 mount"?
If you mean using M42 lenses as A lenses (without ability to change aperture), then it requires only few C code lines :-) M lenses require slightly more, but it is work for one guy for about 4-5 days.
Problems is that corporations don't work this way. They don't go by feedback. They have special people and special structures who decide that you want and that you don't want by asking few people on the street and reading few books on marketing.

[séamuis]

What do you mean under "open-aperture metering M42 mount"?

this is what he wants. I have to say, so do I....

[cbaytan]

And they should name it K-tm (time machine).

this is what he wants. I have to say, so do I....

[Samsungian]

Should Pentax make dedicated m42 mount dslrs?

Can you have both full featured m42 and K mount in one body?

As Pentax likes making Color Options thesedays, maybe its time they also make a fully functional m42 dslr?

Very handy image, thank you.

this is what he wants. I have to say, so do I....

[Aristophanes]

True, while adding others. You still haven't explained why you think this is a relevant comparison, though.

That's EXACTLY how DP Review does it.

Thank you for making my point.

[Aristophanes]

Reviewers and market analysts won't be the people buying this camera.

Also, reviewers commonly make mistakes of comparing one camera to another when they shouldn't. It's happened with reviews of every Pentax camera that I can remember. Usually because Pentax can't afford to have as many models out as their competitors so they find themselves in between model categories defined by the larger companies.

Reviewers and analysts make or break a market. Ask Flip. Why do you think DP review got bought out? Amazon is referenced for an astonishing number of purchases.

Pentax has been dropped from a number of retail chains and independents. They've done some of the dropping as well. That mans they are far more dependent on the web as a research tool. The've eschewed hands-on for soft copy. You live or die by your spec sheet and initial impressions. Every model of every brand is equally hyped. There has never been a more egalitarian, comparative market as there is now. Just look at the for sale section this forum. Used prices are now set worldwide. A voluntary consumer group is tracking serial #'s of faulty 16-50's probably faster than the manufacturer. The K-7 green line was dialled in by users as fast as Pentax engineering could do it.

And for purchases in the hundreds of $$$, most users, especially in tech and photo, do their research. It's all there, and very public. Releases are almost like movies. If Roger Ebert likes a film (or Oprah a book) it will sell well. If you get a few, early, negative reviews or impressions, you're in deep trouble. These market memes flash from trusted review sites through the social networks, and become "the truth".

I did not make the big deal of the AF issue, early reviewers selected BY PENTAX flagged both the market position vis-a-vis the K200D and the "broken" AF. I happen to agree. Before the K-x announcement, I was already wondering about the market position of 2 or 3 model Pentax line-up.

It's mostly a good cam. I think it might struggle to hold onto the very valuable mid-range buyer; it wipes the entry level floor. But calling it entry level without having something the mid-range can aspire to, is a big problem, leaving a ton of room for brand defections and continued market share losses. With all the pretty colours, Pentax is acting more Japanese and less attuned to the N.A. and Euro markets. Note: There's been an awful lot of Pentax "gear outs" on this forum lately.

[Blue]

I won't be happy until they bring back the open-aperture metering M42 mount.

Spotmatic F-d . . . works for me.

As a matter of fact, they could stuff the K20d's guts in a K200d body with the K20d switches and the Spot F/ES mount and call it good.

[séamuis]

Spotmatic F-d . . . works for me.

seriously, if someone (especially pentax) were to put out a digital body with that mount, I would buy that without hesitation, even if it were APS-C. Cosina? come on, do us a favor....

[Marc Sabatella]

That's EXACTLY how DP Review does it.

Thank you for making my point.

If your point is only that it's *possible* to make the comparison, uh, OK, granted. It's also *possible* to comapre to the K-7, and people do it all the time (eg, ("help me decide between the K-x and K-7 - what does the latter have that the former doesn't"). What you haven't done is establish why this comparison is *relevant*. Do you honestly see a potential new customer trying to compare the current offerings against the long-discontinued offerings of yesterday to help him decide which of the new offerings to get, rather than simply comparing the currently available cameras *against each other*?

I mean, can you really see someone saying, "gee, this K-x has some really great features and really provides better value than anything else out there, but I see it's missing one feature that was on a mid-range camera last year that someone said I should be comparing this against, and because this feature is not there, I'm going to buy a lesser camera from another manufacturer just out of spite, even though I actually think the K-x is the better camera"?

Either the customer will perceive the K-x to be better than the competition or he won't. How it compares to other cameras not under consideration won't affect the decision-making process of an even remotely rational person.

Now, the open question is whether the lack of AF indicators in the viewfinder will be sufficient to make the customer decide the K-x is *not* in fact the better camer. But whether or not the K200D had this feature won't enter into it - either he values the AF indicators more than the features the K-x has over the competition or he doesn't.

And here's my basic issue with this whole debate: *all* entry level cameras have some nice features, and have some "missing" features that differentiate them from the higher models. And even the higher models will each have some metric on which they don't compare so well. And every review is going to point this out. The customer is going to read reviews of *several* cameras, see that they all have some sort of limitation, and have to decide which limitation he is most willing to live with. The folks considering Pentax will be the ones inclined to think, "I could probably live without AF indicators", and then they'll come *here* - to this forum, and dpreview's forums - and browse around. If all the see there is people going on and on about how terrible the lack of AF points is, *that* is what may finally dissuade them. Wouldn't it be much better if they came here and saw a rational discussion of how important AF indicators are or are not (as you are surely aware, a very large percentage of shooter *never* use them) so they can make up their mind based on how much the absence of the feature will hamper them, as opposed to people going on and on about how doomed Pentax is and how no one in their right mind would want a camera without this feature? Do you honestly think your posts are going to help?

[ryan s]

Check price. Good charger - till 50 USD + 4 good AA NiMh (approx. 12-15 USD).
Energizer Lithium Ultra AA = 2*4= USD8. It's very rare in our shops.

Don't forget that it's not easy to find Eneloops. Maybe, in Europe or USA it's easy.
But not in Russia.

You can't have stuff shipped to you in Russia? There are no retailers there? I have NEVER found a set of Eneloops in a store...I have to order them online. They're made in China so it's not like America has a monopoly on them.

Li-Ion:
$40 battery Pentax | D-LI50 Rechargeable Li-Ion Battery | 39581 | B&H Photo
$36 charger Pentax | K-BC50 Battery Charger Kit | 39373 | B&H Photo Video

Eneloop:
$30 batteries and charger Sanyo | Eneloop AA Rechargeable NiMH Batteries | SECMQN06TG4

I like Li-Ions for their life and weight...I like AAs for the price and the fact that I use them in EVERYTHING (4x in the flash, 2x in PnS times 2 cameras)...and that's just in my bag. Not to mention 2 wireless mice with 2 batteries each, wireless keyboard, TV/stereo remotes, game controllers, etc...

And in the end, if Pentax doesn't offer what you want, then switch systems. It really is that simple. After a couple of shoots I decided I wanted FF. I didn't come here and piss and moan about what Pentax does or doesn't do. I did my research and bought a 5D2. Much less annoying to the natives. I'm still trying to sort out my "good" street cam and it may be a Kx or K7. Or something else. No biggie...

People would rather come to the internet to complain to people who actually know and care about what they say.

Trying to explain crossover points to my friends is pointless, so I don't do it. They probably think I'm boring because I don't tell them every detail of my hobbies. Knowing that people don't listen, I don't waste my breath. But on audio forums...that's where people come together to discuss that topic, for example.

Oh...and people just like to complain :ugh:

It's not easy. I like only Pentax lenses. It's big problem.
I tried other systems (40D, D200, E420, D50, 5D, S3pro) - it's hard to switch.

Why is it hard?

If you can't bring yourself to actually go through with it (you're not the first nor only...), you can't complain. You have to work with what you've got. You like Pentax lenses...either deal with the bodies or move on.

Pentax hasn't made the camera that would fulfill all my hopes and dreams, but there's in no way have I given up my ability to be pleasantly surprised by them.

I predict it will be more popular than mouthwash in a brothel.

Good point (on both, I guess )

[Marc Sabatella]

Check statistics. K200D was BIG success.

Which statistics do you have that support this? Virtually every report I saw showed it underperforming expectations pretty significantly; one of Pentax's most disappointing DSLR's in that respect, in fact.