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09-17-2009, 10:54 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
It doesn't. Internal mono only, say the specs.
I know.. That's why I said "if it has an external plug for stereo audio, I will just go for it and forget about K-7."

09-17-2009, 11:01 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Which exact situation do you prefer to have indicators?

If the subject is moving or hard to track like a jet or RF plane and there is nothing that can come in the foreground, then you can use full AF because it can go from one AF point to the other and its pretty unlikely you will miss focus, unless there are multiple planes, but all the indicator will do is tell you which one is in focus. If it tells you the wrong one is, you can wait then snap a picture. Without the indicator, you just take the picture and maybe it turns out better than you wanted.

If there are things coming in-front of the object you are trying to focus on that is moving (sports with lots of people) then you would never want to use full AF because it will focus on other people, and you want to specify the exact point (or maybe a set of points), otherwise it will focus on completely random people that I dont want to focus on. I will be snapping away pictures anyway, so I'm not going to even look for a red indicator and decide to not click since I'm in AF-C anyway. And generally I can keep them on the AF point. Well, that was my experience with the D90 - I didn't care for the indicators.
In the first situation with blue sky, I use full auto-AF point select because if the subject (a small plane or bird) may not fall in the pre-select AF point, the camera will hunt to get it in focus.

In the second situation, I use AF point selection because I do not want the camera to decide which subject I want to focus - I want to zero in on the people engaged in conversation, not the person who happens to be closer to my camera. I seldom use AF.C unless I plan to give it a bit of panning or movement effect.
09-17-2009, 11:06 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
In the first situation with blue sky, I use full auto-AF point select because if the subject (a small plane or bird) may not fall in the pre-select AF point, the camera will hunt to get it in focus.
Why wouldn't you use full-AF in this situation? Blue sky, one subject, AF points all over the frame. It will either beep and tell you its in focus, or it won't and you will know its not in focus. It would hunt less this way. AF confirmation in this situation is pointless, it doesn't matter if the point lights up, you will know if the bird or plane is in focus or not.
09-17-2009, 11:17 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by vizjerei Quote
I know.. That's why I said "if it has an external plug for stereo audio, I will just go for it and forget about K-7."
Ah, you meant "had," not "has."

09-17-2009, 11:20 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Why wouldn't you use full-AF in this situation? Blue sky, one subject, AF points all over the frame. It will either beep and tell you its in focus, or it won't and you will know its not in focus. It would hunt less this way. AF confirmation in this situation is pointless, it doesn't matter if the point lights up, you will know if the bird or plane is in focus or not.
That is what I meant, maybe I didn't use the words properly - and that is the rare time I use full-AF auto, other times, I change back AF point select.
09-17-2009, 11:51 AM   #66
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Bring it on! New K-x

I love it! Great move by Pentax. Just what I am looking for. I hope they bring out the red color edition soon. I want one!!
09-17-2009, 11:57 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Except it has the same AF system as the K200D so no improvement there.
What makes you say it uses the AF system of the K200D rather than the improved one of the K-m? I don't think the released info gives enough information to conclude that, and all logic would suggest that it is more likely the K-m's AF system (but with additional focus points and the ability to select them , if somewhat awkwardly).

QuoteQuote:
These are the exact items almost all review sites used to send the K-M/2000 to the barely recommended camp. It is a step across and a step down from the K200D.
And a step up in some pretty significant ways, too, though. Live view, movie mode, much faster frame rate, smaller & lighter, other UI improvements from K-m and K-7, what is probably a better sensor, presumably improved AF, etc.

QuoteQuote:
I think this model is going to get mixed reviews. All around very good, with those caveats that make buyers think twice about "the flaw"
Which is exactly what you could say about *any* entry level camera - pretty good all-around, but missing something that someone somewhere considers important. After all, if it wasn't missing *anything*, it wouldn't be an entry level camera any more - it would be the K-7.

I agree that no focus point indicator in the viewfinder is going to earn Pentax some serious dings in reviews, but in a world run on logic, it would pale in comparison to, say, lack of in-body SR in competing models. This camera should absolutely smoke anything Canon or Nikon has ever offered.
09-17-2009, 12:51 PM   #68
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Becoming convinced this Aristophanes chap is a bit of a troll.

09-17-2009, 02:33 PM   #69
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I swear that Pentax could have released the Kx with 51 AF points, 10 fps, iso 25600, and perfect espresso brewing and some people would either:

a) find some feature that it lacks

or

b) complain that the price is too high

or

c) a) and b)

or

d) a) and b) and proclaim, "Pentax is doomed now..."

I vote d)

Seriously - this camera is very well-spec'd. Comparing it with a D40 is a joke. The Kx is on-par or better spec'd that any price point competitor. They got most everything right. Wrt the visible AF points, that no doubt would have increased the price significantly. And frankly, I never use multiple AF points (always center) and typical targeted users probably won't know the difference. They'll put it on multi metering, multi point AF and push the shutter. As long as they get a better shot than they got with their p&s they'll be happy.

No single product can be all things to all people. You have to consider the real buyers. Naysayers on the interwebs are rarely those people...
09-17-2009, 02:46 PM   #70
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I'd like one in red as a K7 backup. A bit of advertising and plant them in Best Buy, Sams, Walmart etc and they should sell very well. Quite good specs at the designated price point and probably $500 around xmas.
09-17-2009, 03:28 PM   #71
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Weather sealing. Yeah, it's Pentax's entry level. That's a corner they cut. Fair enough. But I think of Subaru and all-wheel drive. There are a lot of all-wheel non-SUV cars out there. But I can't name any off the top of my head, except Subaru. I wonder what the cost/return ratio would be on just weather sealing all Pentax cameras, and marketing that on all their advertising--the Pentax family sitting in the rain, mud, etc. Maybe cars and cameras are apples and oranges, but I would think if weather sealing became synonymous with Pentax, there would be a return on that investment.
09-17-2009, 03:31 PM   #72
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I'd imagine the real issue with weather sealing is size/weight. That's the thing Pentax appears to have been trying to control here, not just price. I think if you want to get a small, light, and cheap entry-level camera, it's not going to be sealed (the K200D and K-7 are probably as small/light as a sealed camera with SR is going to get, but no way is Pentax going to give up SR).
09-17-2009, 03:47 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
I swear that Pentax could have released the Kx with 51 AF points, 10 fps, iso 25600, and perfect espresso brewing and some people would either:

a) find some feature that it lacks

or

b) complain that the price is too high

or

c) a) and b)

or

d) a) and b) and proclaim, "Pentax is doomed now..."

I vote d)

Seriously - this camera is very well-spec'd. Comparing it with a D40 is a joke. The Kx is on-par or better spec'd that any price point competitor. They got most everything right. Wrt the visible AF points, that no doubt would have increased the price significantly. And frankly, I never use multiple AF points (always center) and typical targeted users probably won't know the difference. They'll put it on multi metering, multi point AF and push the shutter. As long as they get a better shot than they got with their p&s they'll be happy.

No single product can be all things to all people. You have to consider the real buyers. Naysayers on the interwebs are rarely those people...
what a great post
09-17-2009, 03:54 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
what a great post
And if it was 1fps people would hail it for being a "contemplative" camera.

There are fanatics on both sides of the spectrum.
09-17-2009, 04:07 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
What makes you say it uses the AF system of the K200D rather than the improved one of the K-m? I don't think the released info gives enough information to conclude that, and all logic would suggest that it is more likely the K-m's AF system (but with additional focus points and the ability to select them , if somewhat awkwardly).



And a step up in some pretty significant ways, too, though. Live view, movie mode, much faster frame rate, smaller & lighter, other UI improvements from K-m and K-7, what is probably a better sensor, presumably improved AF, etc.



Which is exactly what you could say about *any* entry level camera - pretty good all-around, but missing something that someone somewhere considers important. After all, if it wasn't missing *anything*, it wouldn't be an entry level camera any more - it would be the K-7.

I agree that no focus point indicator in the viewfinder is going to earn Pentax some serious dings in reviews, but in a world run on logic, it would pale in comparison to, say, lack of in-body SR in competing models. This camera should absolutely smoke anything Canon or Nikon has ever offered.
Your logic implies that to go forward with new features at a price point, one should remove features critical to use.

So, theK200D at this same price point has

This makes zero marketing sense. A very useful feature was removed (AF selection and superimposition) which every other competitor's model has, and which as missing from the K-M in such a way that the ratings for the K-M tanked compared to the K200D.

if you've got a successful feature from one generation, don't mess with it. This is a classic shoot yourself in the foot market dumbness. Even more because every single previous review of the same missing quality panned the camera. This Imaging Resource Preview said that explicitly. It's like watching a colourful balloon float up, and then sink with an audible hiss.

Why cripple the AF when no other competitor does so? Find the logic.

This is why Canon is so successful. The market-driven machine they are would never accept such a crippling for fear of utility function comparison. Canon designs camera reviews love, which then subsequently sell well, engineering be darned (I detest their plasticiness).

Pentax seems to find a way to make one thing stick out so much that it colours the marketing possibilities and price options of the entire product line. This single omission will earn it a rating below Canon and Nikon comparative models. People will shop elsewhere (including some current Pentaxians). It does not have to be this way. It's not about what is not there; it's about a feature already there that was taken out.

This the perfect storm of the two things most people accuse Pentax of getting wrong:

1) Substandard AF options
2) Poor marketing
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