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05-27-2007, 02:45 AM   #61
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Oh please, just stop all the crying already. It's pathetic, really.

05-27-2007, 03:37 AM   #62
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Yes and...?

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul_C Quote
Oh please, just stop all the crying already. It's pathetic, really.
pathetic adjective 1 a pathetic groan pitiful, pitiable, piteous, moving, touching, poignant, plaintive, distressing, upsetting, heartbreaking, heart-rending, harrowing, wretched, forlorn. See note at moving . 2 informal : a pathetic excuse feeble, woeful, sorry, poor, pitiful, lamentable, deplorable, contemptible, inadequate, paltry, insufficient, insubstantial, unsatisfactory.

Would you kindly share with us what you did extrapolate from the above posts to come to your brilliant conclusion which you so adamantly shared here. I am not quite sure what your meaning is. Is the fact that you stated that ones crying is pathetic? Is it the subject matter? Is what was stated inadequate or lacking in information? I think the original poster spent quite a bit more time composing his observations and that time spent shows a considerable amount of forethought. You however did not grace us with the same consideration.

Ben
05-27-2007, 07:30 AM   #63
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Very well said Ben and I never even thought about if Phil was an accomplished photog or not...

Myabe that why in one sentence he says the K10 gets better detail than a 30D and in another he states that the K10 gets a "Just" Highly recommended because of the image quality. A lot of the magazines do the same thing based on image quality and the one that best rates the K10 in honesty and real world tests is Digital Camera World where they gave the K10 a 5 out of 5 in the image quality section and even said the Jpegs were good enough but the RAW was amazing. Said the SR worked like a charm (CNET said the SR was a gimmick and didn't do anything ) and the best quote from DCWmag was, "the K10D feels like it was formed from granite and take great pictures too!" When a real photog can take pictures equal to or better than other equipment it shows you how well it works but when the worlds most sought after website for unbiased news gives you poor interpretations and noticeable faults in tests (yes when there is no constant and the charts are mis-aligned on the K10 and not on others and some ACR settings that are said to be zero'd are still on and others turned up thats just lazy reporting) someone has to say something. Now DPR feels the need to post false news about Pentax on their main page which I have emailed 3 times about and asked moderators to remove the false statement and linked them to the correct news from PENTAX stating the exact opposite I have heard nothing and nothing has been done. Phil probably reads this site and retaliated against this post... you never know the depths that humans go for attention. If you all want to complain about it and say we're crying then fine but at least some truth is out there and people can make an informed decision.
05-27-2007, 08:30 AM   #64
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Personally I don't put much weight into any review on the net. As with cameras I wait till I see real life pictures shot by real people. No test charts etc. Phil to me is just some guy that maintains a digital photography website and his review of the K10D put zero weight on why I bought one.

05-27-2007, 02:20 PM   #65
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Works for me...

QuoteOriginally posted by dwinnert Quote
Personally I don't put much weight into any review on the net. As with cameras I wait till I see real life pictures shot by real people. No test charts etc. Phil to me is just some guy that maintains a digital photography website and his review of the K10D put zero weight on why I bought one.
I agree dwinnert, I read dpreview, luminous Landscape and Steves Digicams for reference only. All of these sites are written by humans from a sometimes semi biased and subjective perspective, and intelligent people consider their opinions and statements as such. There is certainly value in all of them, and as I had tried my K10D, 30D and a D80 prior to purchase, the decision was mine and I have had no regrets except twinges, which were mostly unlearning old habits, and learning new.

I personally feel that the K10D is a wonderful design and can outperform most of the competition, and certainly me, but what it boils down to is; I like it, it works for me, makes me look good, the best camera I have ever owned and will serve me well into the future.

I have more lenses available that I can afford, all that I need and a few to save for, and all the accessories that I need right now.

Complaints? none that I can not work around, and certainly none that I would throw to the circling sharks to create a sometimes ill informed and axe grinding feeding frenzy.

Amazing that we can get many responses or posts to a thread like this, and usually dismiss postive, creative and constructive threads IMHO.

Phil
05-27-2007, 08:37 PM   #66
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DPR's review actually helped me make up my mind to get the K10D. When I seriously began researching a camera, DPR was the first review I read. While looking at all the comparison crops of the different cameras, I started wondering just what this really meant for my photography. Were people, when they viewed my photo's, all going to pull out their loupe and carefully examine the print? And be disappointed when their examination turned up the fact that I did indeed "use a Pentax"? :-).
The more reviews I read, I came to the conclusion that the current 10 mega pixel sensors were really quite even, I mean it's quite a good time to buy a camera.
When I first read it, it did make me think that softer jpegs etc out of the camera was bad, but the more I read the more I started thinking along the lines the developers must have been following. I'm sure the Pentax guys could easily have given the camera's jpeg output just like, Nikon's...or Canon's but they had to have had some reason for doing what they did. I mean I'm confident they could have sharpened, conrtrasted, brightened with the best of them till the cows come home.
What DPR reviews did for me was to dig deeper into what Pentax was really offering and understanding what I was getting into.
Those reviews go into extensive explaining of what every little button does, after reading enough of those reviews, a guy can start getting a pretty good idea of how the camera is set up. Helpful for me because I'd never even seen a real one till I got mine! But I felt I already knew it when I first picked it up, at least familiar.
Ok, I like the looks of the hardware, what do people who are using it think of it and I'm into the forums and quickly found this site and the community made my final decision easy.
I think review sites like DPR serve a useful purpose but are just a starting point in one's research.
05-27-2007, 10:46 PM   #67
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who cares

i dont care what they say on DPR. Wouldnt have bought my k10d if i did so why should i care now.
05-28-2007, 02:52 AM   #68
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what I have learned reading this forum is:

a review critical of anything about new pentax cameras is biased, incomplete, unfair, apples to oranges, and should be called out as such.

a review of new pentax cameras that recommend and praise them, use superlatives, 5 out of 5, is balanced, fair, and should be referred to.

05-28-2007, 03:57 AM   #69
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Gee..Why am I not surprised?

You know something...I don't five a Flying F--K about what I'm about tosay...I checked out the Nikon D40 and although being a very good camera, it does not even come close to the feature set of the K10D, yet my dear Uncle Phil gave it a shining "Highly Recommended" Period...Now tell me...!!!!
05-28-2007, 04:55 AM   #70
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Phil has admitted in his own forum that he holds Pentax to a higher standard than C+N as he wants to see Pentax do well..

Of course in my opinion in the end he is just doing his part to ensure the opposite, but he doesn't see it that way..
05-28-2007, 08:13 AM   #71
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Not too mention on his D40x tests the images he uses in comparison in the RAW test vs the Canon 400D is a jpeg out of the camera and not a RAW image converted to jpeg. Feel free to download them and view the difference. Why does the canon image get to be a RAW converted to jpeg image while the Nikon get to be jpeg out of camera? These are the sloppy unbiased tests I've come to love....

I have tons of more information but I'm saving it for a time needed.

QuoteQuote:
what I have learned reading this forum is:

a review critical of anything about new pentax cameras is biased, incomplete, unfair, apples to oranges, and should be called out as such.

a review of new pentax cameras that recommend and praise them, use superlatives, 5 out of 5, is balanced, fair, and should be referred to.
If that is what you've learned then I'm sorry this thread was started because what the original complaint was why the Pentax cameras are given such poor testing controls period. Basically all RAW images out of dSLRs should be exactly the same period. But countless poor testings have given Canon and Nikon such high acclaim that they sit upon mount olympus with the gods themselves. So when low and behold Pentax makes a camera that takes the pants off the market in the same price range some reviews get real squeaky and make it look bad. The DCWmag article placed the K10D in leagues with the Canon 30D and Nikon D200, where it belongs (Both highly recommended cameras not "just") and also gave the edge to the Pentax in some areas and a slight lack in others which is exactly how the K10D is.

When the worst sharpness range on the Pentax lens is f8 based on numerous lens tests (photozone.de for one) and the the highest sharpness range on nikon and canons lens test is f9 ummm.... we have two very contradictory statements because Phils test shows that the FA50 1.4 is sharpest at f8, when it's not, but the images he shows us are. When he makes a statement that all sharpness and blah blah blah are zero'd, but there not (EXIF data proves it) we have a problem. When the biggest loss in points in a review on the K10D is image quality in Phils review, but he states that it takes sharper images and has more detail than the 30D in one sentence. The 30D has raving reviews on it's picture quality!

All I've done is found numerous flaws in the most reputable online camera reviewers tests period. I'm not looking to put Pentax on a higher ground than anything else, but put it back where it belongs "honestly".
06-03-2007, 04:35 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote

Basically all RAW images out of dSLRs should be exactly the same period.
Except they are not. There is not standard as to what a "RAW" image is, nor what processing has been applied to it (even as a "RAW").

QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
When the worst sharpness range on the Pentax lens is f8 based on numerous lens tests (photozone.de for one) and the the highest sharpness range on nikon and canons lens test is f9 ummm.... we have two very contradictory statements because Phils test shows that the FA50 1.4 is sharpest at f8, when it's not, but the images he shows us are.
Care to point out exactly where you see this "bias", as far as I can see, the photozone.de tests show that the highest absolute MTF50 lpmm for all those lenses (taking edges into account) occurs at f/5.6, by f/8 you're getting into diffraction limits for 10MP cameras. If anything shooting at f8 (c.f. f9 for the Canon), favours the Pentax.

Although I may disagree with Phil in some of his reviews, you're tirade is factually flawed.
06-03-2007, 05:10 PM   #73
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Phil's review of the K100D was a determining factor in me getting it over the Nikon D40
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