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05-23-2007, 08:43 AM   #1
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DPR and their lies

Ok I can't keep this bottled up anymore as I have finally shed my last straw at the bias of DPR and Phils poor testing.

I've downloaded almost every image he placed on DPR in regards to camera tests and have found a lot of interesting facts that need to be heard and maybe enlighten us all on which camera is the best.

Everyone can follow this process as I did and hopefully someone can answer me this question, "why does Phil fear Pentax?"

Go to DPR and download all the RAW studio and Resolution charts from DPR and check the EXIF data by either using left-click>properties and check the summary tab or use abode bridge and check all the exif information embedded in his images.

Here are the strange pattern that has arisen from all the data:

All K10D images used were converted to 240dpi in scene test vs canon 30D and Phil admitted the K10D got more detail and all other aspects of the test were of almost even par (aperture and conversion etc.)

All K10D images in chart test were converted to 72dpi and compared to 300dpi images from canon, 240 from nikon and sony and now Pentax gets 3rd place. Other strange things is the 30D had shutter of 1/60 at f9 while the K10D had 1/30 at f8? Why? Poor lighting? SR was most likely on as well and on a tripod.

K100 images vs rebel xti were all converted to 72dpi vs 240/300 dpi of rebel and d50. Again Canon was amazing while the Pentax failed to impress.

I'm not going to say anything further about this because you can all look at on your own and come up with the same conclusions as I have, which is Phil is cheating everyone out of the truth. I think that this is ridiculous as millions flock to his site for information and all he is doing is feeding the masses crap about his staged test results.

Maybe someone is braver than I to bring this up over there, but whats the point he's dumb and so is DPR's reviews.

I'm going out to take pictures with my camera that does better than anything in it's class no matter what anyone says!

05-23-2007, 08:48 AM   #2
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Before you rant anymore, read up on exactly WHAT DPI is.... Hint - It has NOTHING to do with image quality.
05-23-2007, 08:57 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by egordon99 Quote
Before you rant anymore, read up on exactly WHAT DPI is.... Hint - It has NOTHING to do with image quality.
I know what DPI is but the tests are skewed, no normalcy, no control!

And when you zoom into a test shot at 72DPI to make it as large as the same zoom at 240 DPI it's an increase above 100% which will degrade quality!
05-23-2007, 08:59 AM   #4
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Basically all the cracks in control for these tests have been forced upon the Pentax cameras... can you see a pattern?

05-23-2007, 09:02 AM   #5
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OK, while I agree that the reviews at DPReview are HIGHLY biased, "dpi" means nothing on a monitor. DPI is a print issue, a monitor only cares about total pixel width and height. Now, if they were cropped unfairly that would be different, but dpi won't effect an on-screen image review.

Few, if any, of the on-line camera reviewers do print tests, which is where image quality really counts. It is also where Pentax really shines.
05-23-2007, 09:08 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
OK, while I agree that the reviews at DPReview are HIGHLY biased, "dpi" means nothing on a monitor. DPI is a print issue, a monitor only cares about total pixel width and height. Now, if they were cropped unfairly that would be different, but dpi won't effect an on-screen image review.

Few, if any, of the on-line camera reviewers do print tests, which is where image quality really counts. It is also where Pentax really shines.
I believe it may be an unfair crop in many of these images as if you download all of the jpgs he's attached and read some of the exif if he really did take a 72dpi image to crop to the same spot as a 240 dpi image there would be a lot of difference, noticeable difference. But the whole point of a review is to have control, he states that these are the images used for comparison so if he zoomed in to the same point in a 72dpi image as he did in a 240 dpi image I think what he tells people could be very different then what the camera actually does. Not too mention all the other things that are off, aperture exposure compensation is off on all charts by +2 shutter speed (doesn't matter but aperture could and it paints a picture when f8 = 1/30 on k10 and f9 = 1/60 on 30D)

Like I said what you guys get from it is your won, mine says he cheating the world and it should be known.
05-23-2007, 09:17 AM   #7
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Chris,
Please stop it before you start to feel stupid. It's not my intention to make you feel uneasy but as you persist:
The DPI doesn't mean anything, just as you have been told.

Have a look at your own K10D pictures; they are marked with some DPI value, right? Why? Don't ask me.

Look at the pictures you downloaded: how many pixels are they? Doesn't it match what the specifications say?

My best advise: ask Adam to remove this thread and let us all forget about it. And that's from one who thinks nothing should be removed or deleted, basically.
05-23-2007, 09:25 AM   #8
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Ditto Jonas. This is a forum for exploring and learning and discussion about pictures, ....If you want investigative journalism, call 60-Minutes

05-23-2007, 09:27 AM   #9
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In addition to your misunderstanding of DPI, "SR was most likely on" is just pure conjecture and the difference between f/8 and f/9 is not significant whatsoever.

I'm sorry you don't like the findings of some pundit. Go enjoy your camera.
05-23-2007, 09:30 AM   #10
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So the DPI has nothing to do with pixels? I'm a bit confused. I thought pixels were the dots that make up the DOTS per square inch?!?

If it makes no difference, then why does he (the DPR guy) change it between cameras? I agree: any review where you compare one camera to another needs to be controlled. He needs to use the same everything if hecan. I've noticed, he uses the same image taken by both cameras to compare image quality. I think he should use each camera's kit lense, then use the same lense on all cameras. Buy an old screwmount or something and then invest in a screwmount adaptor for each camera mount, I don't know, but something that will show how each camera does when they are all using the same exact lense. Same shutter speed, same aperture. Same tripod. Same time of day. Same lighting. Same memory card brand. Same clothes maybe even.

Only then can you have an unbiased review. I read alot of DPR reviews while looking for a digital camera, and he really had me anti-pentax DSLR for a while, but now that I own one, I actually really like it.
05-23-2007, 09:39 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by JahJahwarrior Quote
So the DPI has nothing to do with pixels? I'm a bit confused. I thought pixels were the dots that make up the DOTS per square inch?!?

No, that is not what dpi means. DPI does stand for dots per inch, but the dots refers to ink dots, not pixels. Monitors, Windows picture viewer, web browsers, etc, don't even read any dpi settings in a photo. 100% on a monitor means that it is showing you the pixels at 1:1 with your monitors pixels. It has nothing to do with dpi, which is only for prints.
05-23-2007, 09:42 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by JahJahwarrior Quote
then why does he (the DPR guy) change it between cameras? I agree: any review where you compare one camera to another needs to be controlled.
Oh, yeah, he doesn't change them. That is how they come out of the camera. Pentax sets the files to come out of the camera at 72 dpi, don't ask me why. Other camera companies set it differently. Phil is not changing anything.

Once again, I do believe that DPR is biased, but this issue is a non issue.
05-23-2007, 09:42 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JahJahwarrior Quote
So the DPI has nothing to do with pixels? I'm a bit confused. I thought pixels were the dots that make up the DOTS per square inch?!?

If it makes no difference, then why does he (the DPR guy) change it between cameras? I agree: any review where you compare one camera to another needs to be controlled. He needs to use the same everything if hecan. I've noticed, he uses the same image taken by both cameras to compare image quality. I think he should use each camera's kit lense, then use the same lense on all cameras. Buy an old screwmount or something and then invest in a screwmount adaptor for each camera mount, I don't know, but something that will show how each camera does when they are all using the same exact lense. Same shutter speed, same aperture. Same tripod. Same time of day. Same lighting. Same memory card brand. Same clothes maybe even.

Only then can you have an unbiased review. I read alot of DPR reviews while looking for a digital camera, and he really had me anti-pentax DSLR for a while, but now that I own one, I actually really like it.

Get a life, please. Use your camera to take your pictures and suit your self. If you dont like what the other guy says about Pentax, dont read it. Most Pentaxians would still have a Pentax even if it was in some way thought to be inferior.

We are well able to judge the worth of some techno-babble from some so-called reviewer and make our own minds up. We have our own favourite techno-babble members permanently on this forum, but we dont rubbish every thing they have to say, we mostly just ignore them. Try it.
05-23-2007, 09:50 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by keithlester Quote
Get a life, please. Use your camera to take your pictures and suit your self. If you dont like what the other guy says about Pentax, dont read it........ We have our own favourite techno-babble members permanently on this forum, but we dont rubbish every thing they have to say, we mostly just ignore them. Try it.

If you don't mine, do get mad at me. I have done nothing worthy of anger other than ask for an explanation of several things, and then add my own thoughts about how a proper review should be done.

1. Thank for you explain DPI. I think I understand it better now. I think the most important thing is what one helpful user said: "pentax sets it that way, he doesn't change it." That's the key, becuase that's the OP's problem with the guy.

2. Keith, how the heck am I supposed to know if I like what he says? A month ago, I was looking to buy a DSLR to replace my film bodies. He had the best looking reviews on the internet! I cannot know if what he says is true or not, because I don't hav ethe camera in front of me at that point. Looking back, his review is decent, but I feel he could have done a better job of pointing out some of the things I love about the camera. You are getting anal at me for not liking what he says, but it's really that I want a completely unbiased review from someone so I can tell if I should buy a camera or not.

3. Eh, overall I think everyone on here is a bit emotionally charged on this issue. I come in here, ask a question and make some decently un-charged points and I get told to "get a life" and somehow earn the . What a wonderful, friendly bunch we are today!
05-23-2007, 09:59 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by JahJahwarrior Quote
If you don't mine, do get mad at me. I have done nothing worthy of anger other than ask for an explanation of several things, and then add my own thoughts about how a proper review should be done.

1. Thank for you explain DPI. I think I understand it better now. I think the most important thing is what one helpful user said: "pentax sets it that way, he doesn't change it." That's the key, becuase that's the OP's problem with the guy.

2. Keith, how the heck am I supposed to know if I like what he says? A month ago, I was looking to buy a DSLR to replace my film bodies. He had the best looking reviews on the internet! I cannot know if what he says is true or not, because I don't hav ethe camera in front of me at that point. Looking back, his review is decent, but I feel he could have done a better job of pointing out some of the things I love about the camera. You are getting anal at me for not liking what he says, but it's really that I want a completely unbiased review from someone so I can tell if I should buy a camera or not.

3. Eh, overall I think everyone on here is a bit emotionally charged on this issue. I come in here, ask a question and make some decently un-charged points and I get told to "get a life" and somehow earn the . What a wonderful, friendly bunch we are today!

Not getting mad, just yawning a bit. This is not the place to bitch about somebody on another forum..
You might like to bitch on that forum and leave this one for the purpose it was created, the passing of information, advice and sharing of our common ground, which might be the enjoyment of photography, Pentax cameras
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