From K10D to K-x. Why not?

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by LeDave

Right now I'm taking a risk and going for the K20D variant, the GX20 before checking with the K-x image quality. But overall the K-x does have faster FPS, live view, video recording, and all that extra bonus. I have the K-m and it feels good on my hands, I've felt the Canon 50D at best buy and it feels even better because I have long fingers. The number one drawback I have with my K-m is the small viewfinder, it cuts off a lot on the corners when looking through it, I can't see the full picture and I can't use the magnifier because I wear glasses. My friend has a Nikon D5000 and the viewfinder seems so much nicer.

Strange...from all accounts I've heard, the D5000 has a terrible viewfinder. I think I played with one (can't remember which variant it was

) and it was very narrow. Even the D300 I messed with was pretty dim...

Originally posted by aleonx3

Ryan S; I tried both K-7 and K-x today at Henrys. Although when you look at them separately, the size seems to be the same; when they are both side-by-side, there is a difference. The K-7 is much better as the grip/handle is bigger and the weigh seems to make your hold firmer (even without the grip). The K-x handle is narrower and there is no grip available.

Grrr...that's what I'm worried about. The grip on the K-x looks "flat" like the K10 while the K-7 is contoured. And the lack of available grip might not work out

I hope my shop will get one in. They didn't have a K-m (I was in there 2 weeks ago and can't remember

) but only a K-7, K20, and K200.

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Regarding the viewfinder, it's the same as the *istDL, K100D, K110D, K200D, and K-m. Slightly smaller than the K10D, but still perfectly usable for MF, I think. Although I ended up getting an O-ME53 magnifier for my K200D's viewfinder, making it more or less the same size as the K10D. I probably focus manual at leats half the time (my most user lenses include the M28/2.8 and M135/3.5). It is noticeably dimmer with slow lenses like the kit lens, but I don't tend to want to focus that one manually.

I think I've looked through a K100 (*istDs for sure). I'm already using a darker *ist focus screen in my camera and actually prefer the added contrast with faster lenses. f/5.6 max aperture focusing is not enjoyable, no matter the camera...

opiedog · 09-20-2009, 10:44 AM

i had a k-10 and "downgraded" to a k2000.
no issues with the "missing" features whatsoever.

YMMV

btw, the better AF is a godsend

Kirivon · 09-20-2009, 11:01 AM

There's no doubt that the K-x will be a quantum leap up from the K10D in terms of features and ISO performance. It might be tough, however, to go from such a great handling camera to something aimed at the entry level market.

Many people, including myself, upgraded from the K100D to the K10D for the extra knobs and switches, knowing that we were taking a step backwards in ISO performance. So, that might be something to consider. It's not that the K-x would be a poor handling camera, but rather, it's just that the K10D is really good. I recently shot with a D80, and in my opinion, the K10D blows it out of the water.

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by opiedog

i had a k-10 and "downgraded" to a k2000.
no issues with the "missing" features whatsoever.

YMMV

btw, the better AF is a godsend

Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing.

Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)?

With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked

Pentaxor · 09-20-2009, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing.

Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)?

With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked

you can't expect more from that particular lens. get yourself a 50-200 or a 55-300.

aleonx3 · 09-20-2009, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing.

Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)?

With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked

I don't see why not since K-x will support screw-drive focus lens although with the K10, it is more balanced. The K-x is much lighter.

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

you can't expect more from that particular lens. get yourself a 50-200 or a 55-300.

Tried the 55-300 out side-by-side with the FA...great image quality, weird AF. Even inside the photo shop, the DA couldn't find focus some of the time. Put the FA on...it was like a Canon USM lens...even though the FA's AF isn't the best.

IF I do end up with a K-x, they keep a DA in stock so I'll check it out again

Originally posted by aleonx3

I don't see why not since K-x will support screw-drive focus lens although with the K10, it is more balanced. The K-x is much lighter.

I was just wondering how good it was with such a large rotating mass being spun by a smaller focus motor...a very particular (peculiar?) question

Interesting fact: that lens is lighter than the Tamron 90mm macro. Add the TC to the Tamron, and it's my heaviest lens by what feels like a lot.

If/when I end up with a solid chunk of long glass, I'll be relying on the tripod ring it comes with to support the camera. I'm simply worried if the camera will be comfortable enough for me to not need a grip...so the balance of the cam and lens shouldn't be a huge issue since I still use film cameras without any kind of contouring...bricks with a lens on the front

I'm not "demanding" on my stuff...but carrying anything more than the M28 and M50 is getting cumbersome on my back once my bag is loaded with K10 and grip and everything else.

jct us101 · 09-20-2009, 01:26 PM

The screw drive motors are the same size on all Pentax DSLRs.

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Really? Maybe I was confusing it with "power on tap" and the Li-Ion cameras had more juice...

My memory sucks

Pentaxor · 09-20-2009, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

Tried the 55-300 out side-by-side with the FA...great image quality, weird AF. Even inside the photo shop, the DA couldn't find focus some of the time. Put the FA on...it was like a Canon USM lens...even though the FA's AF isn't the best.

IF I do end up with a K-x, they keep a DA in stock so I'll check it out again

I was just wondering how good it was with such a large rotating mass being spun by a smaller focus motor...a very particular (peculiar?) question

Interesting fact: that lens is lighter than the Tamron 90mm macro. Add the TC to the Tamron, and it's my heaviest lens by what feels like a lot.

If/when I end up with a solid chunk of long glass, I'll be relying on the tripod ring it comes with to support the camera. I'm simply worried if the camera will be comfortable enough for me to not need a grip...so the balance of the cam and lens shouldn't be a huge issue since I still use film cameras without any kind of contouring...bricks with a lens on the front

I'm not "demanding" on my stuff...but carrying anything more than the M28 and M50 is getting cumbersome on my back once my bag is loaded with K10 and grip and everything else.

the K10D has a subpar AF capability, though your AF seems to be performing well with it. a better body would improve any slow AF lens performance. so you might give it a try. as far as the 55-300 auto-focusing is concerned, that lens doesn't have a close focus capability. you need a lil bit of distance between you and the subject if you want it to focus without any problem.

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 05:31 PM

It's wonky under 30 feet?

I know I was inside, but it was clear across the store...

What I really want is a focus limiter either on the lens or in the body like some macro lenses. That way, the lenses won't constantly "run" from infinity to ~5ft when it misses focus. That's one place where the DA's short focus throw comes in useful.

Pentaxor · 09-20-2009, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

It's wonky under 30 feet?

I know I was inside, but it was clear across the store...

What I really want is a focus limiter either on the lens or in the body like some macro lenses. That way, the lenses won't constantly "run" from infinity to ~5ft when it misses focus. That's one place where the DA's short focus throw comes in useful.

actually, this is where the quick shift focus comes in handy. as I said, misfocus or focus hunting happens if you are shooting the subject at around less than 4 feet. I think the minimum focusing distance is around 5 feet, so you need to shoot around that distance. as to focusing being wobbly under 30 feet, I dunno but mine performs very well up til full focal length. of course, this is done under good lighting. under lowlight, it would be more of a challenge but it could do the job with the help of ISO and quick-shift MF. I can't see the 70-320 doing any better.

btw, I forgot to mention that I was using the lens with the K-7. and it was definitely faster than the K20D both under good lighting and lowlight. some occasional misfocus (especially under lowlight), but seldom does it happen.

ryan s · 09-20-2009, 09:34 PM

Put both lenses on my K10 and the store's K20...same result...same focus point...same conditions...same camera settings...everything. The FA came out on top for accuracy and speed.

Don't know how...don't know why...

Pentaxor · 09-20-2009, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

Put both lenses on my K10 and the store's K20...same result...same focus point...same conditions...same camera settings...everything. The FA came out on top for accuracy and speed.

Don't know how...don't know why...

hmmmmm.... I dunno either.

res3567 · 09-21-2009, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by ilya80

Hello Gentlemen,

I need a bit of advice here. I`m thinking of going from K10D to smaller K-x camera. The only con. that has been outlined is the lack of visible selection of focus point. This doesn't apply to me since i`m taught by Pentax AF system to use central AF point and recompose \ AE-lock anyway.

On the good sides for me is 1) size 2) New AF algorithms like those in k-7 3) Video, etc, etc..

Anything I`m missing a catch here?

Please advise...

Can you afford to have both?

09-20-2009, 01:49 PM	#25
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by ryan s Tried the 55-300 out side-by-side with the FA...great image quality, weird AF. Even inside the photo shop, the DA couldn't find focus some of the time. Put the FA on...it was like a Canon USM lens...even though the FA's AF isn't the best. IF I do end up with a K-x, they keep a DA in stock so I'll check it out again I was just wondering how good it was with such a large rotating mass being spun by a smaller focus motor...a very particular (peculiar?) question Interesting fact: that lens is lighter than the Tamron 90mm macro. Add the TC to the Tamron, and it's my heaviest lens by what feels like a lot. If/when I end up with a solid chunk of long glass, I'll be relying on the tripod ring it comes with to support the camera. I'm simply worried if the camera will be comfortable enough for me to not need a grip...so the balance of the cam and lens shouldn't be a huge issue since I still use film cameras without any kind of contouring...bricks with a lens on the front I'm not "demanding" on my stuff...but carrying anything more than the M28 and M50 is getting cumbersome on my back once my bag is loaded with K10 and grip and everything else. the K10D has a subpar AF capability, though your AF seems to be performing well with it. a better body would improve any slow AF lens performance. so you might give it a try. as far as the 55-300 auto-focusing is concerned, that lens doesn't have a close focus capability. you need a lil bit of distance between you and the subject if you want it to focus without any problem. Last edited by Pentaxor; 09-20-2009 at 06:13 PM.

09-20-2009, 06:38 PM	#27
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by ryan s It's wonky under 30 feet? I know I was inside, but it was clear across the store... What I really want is a focus limiter either on the lens or in the body like some macro lenses. That way, the lenses won't constantly "run" from infinity to ~5ft when it misses focus. That's one place where the DA's short focus throw comes in useful. actually, this is where the quick shift focus comes in handy. as I said, misfocus or focus hunting happens if you are shooting the subject at around less than 4 feet. I think the minimum focusing distance is around 5 feet, so you need to shoot around that distance. as to focusing being wobbly under 30 feet, I dunno but mine performs very well up til full focal length. of course, this is done under good lighting. under lowlight, it would be more of a challenge but it could do the job with the help of ISO and quick-shift MF. I can't see the 70-320 doing any better. btw, I forgot to mention that I was using the lens with the K-7. and it was definitely faster than the K20D both under good lighting and lowlight. some occasional misfocus (especially under lowlight), but seldom does it happen. Last edited by Pentaxor; 09-20-2009 at 09:43 PM.

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09-20-2009, 10:33 AM	#16
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by LeDave Right now I'm taking a risk and going for the K20D variant, the GX20 before checking with the K-x image quality. But overall the K-x does have faster FPS, live view, video recording, and all that extra bonus. I have the K-m and it feels good on my hands, I've felt the Canon 50D at best buy and it feels even better because I have long fingers. The number one drawback I have with my K-m is the small viewfinder, it cuts off a lot on the corners when looking through it, I can't see the full picture and I can't use the magnifier because I wear glasses. My friend has a Nikon D5000 and the viewfinder seems so much nicer. Strange...from all accounts I've heard, the D5000 has a terrible viewfinder. I think I played with one (can't remember which variant it was ) and it was very narrow. Even the D300 I messed with was pretty dim... Originally posted by aleonx3 Ryan S; I tried both K-7 and K-x today at Henrys. Although when you look at them separately, the size seems to be the same; when they are both side-by-side, there is a difference. The K-7 is much better as the grip/handle is bigger and the weigh seems to make your hold firmer (even without the grip). The K-x handle is narrower and there is no grip available. Grrr...that's what I'm worried about. The grip on the K-x looks "flat" like the K10 while the K-7 is contoured. And the lack of available grip might not work out I hope my shop will get one in. They didn't have a K-m (I was in there 2 weeks ago and can't remember ) but only a K-7, K20, and K200. Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Regarding the viewfinder, it's the same as the istDL, K100D, K110D, K200D, and K-m. Slightly smaller than the K10D, but still perfectly usable for MF, I think. Although I ended up getting an O-ME53 magnifier for my K200D's viewfinder, making it more or less the same size as the K10D. I probably focus manual at leats half the time (my most user lenses include the M28/2.8 and M135/3.5). It is noticeably dimmer with slow lenses like the kit lens, but I don't tend to want to focus that one manually. I think I've looked through a K100 (istDs for sure). I'm already using a darker *ist focus screen in my camera and actually prefer the added contrast with faster lenses. f/5.6 max aperture focusing is not enjoyable, no matter the camera...

09-20-2009, 10:44 AM	#17
opiedog Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NC Posts: 787	i had a k-10 and "downgraded" to a k2000. no issues with the "missing" features whatsoever. YMMV btw, the better AF is a godsend

09-20-2009, 11:01 AM	#18
Kirivon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 173	There's no doubt that the K-x will be a quantum leap up from the K10D in terms of features and ISO performance. It might be tough, however, to go from such a great handling camera to something aimed at the entry level market. Many people, including myself, upgraded from the K100D to the K10D for the extra knobs and switches, knowing that we were taking a step backwards in ISO performance. So, that might be something to consider. It's not that the K-x would be a poor handling camera, but rather, it's just that the K10D is really good. I recently shot with a D80, and in my opinion, the K10D blows it out of the water.

09-20-2009, 11:14 AM	#19
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by opiedog i had a k-10 and "downgraded" to a k2000. no issues with the "missing" features whatsoever. YMMV btw, the better AF is a godsend Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing. Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)? With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked

09-20-2009, 12:08 PM	#20
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by ryan s Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing. Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)? With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked you can't expect more from that particular lens. get yourself a 50-200 or a 55-300.

09-20-2009, 12:22 PM	#21
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by ryan s Don't know if you can help me...my FA 80-320 is a screw-drive AF lens, and it's a good-sized lens. The whole front part of the lens (forward of the focus ring...almost 6" of stuff) rotates when focusing. Can the K-m handle a large focusing demand like that? Anyone know if the improved AF negates the weaker motor (at least...I think it's weaker)? With the K10D, the body of the camera itself kinda twists while focusing like stepping on the gas pedal of a car while idling and parked I don't see why not since K-x will support screw-drive focus lens although with the K10, it is more balanced. The K-x is much lighter.

09-20-2009, 01:21 PM	#22
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by Pentaxor you can't expect more from that particular lens. get yourself a 50-200 or a 55-300. Tried the 55-300 out side-by-side with the FA...great image quality, weird AF. Even inside the photo shop, the DA couldn't find focus some of the time. Put the FA on...it was like a Canon USM lens...even though the FA's AF isn't the best. IF I do end up with a K-x, they keep a DA in stock so I'll check it out again Originally posted by aleonx3 I don't see why not since K-x will support screw-drive focus lens although with the K10, it is more balanced. The K-x is much lighter. I was just wondering how good it was with such a large rotating mass being spun by a smaller focus motor...a very particular (peculiar?) question Interesting fact: that lens is lighter than the Tamron 90mm macro. Add the TC to the Tamron, and it's my heaviest lens by what feels like a lot. If/when I end up with a solid chunk of long glass, I'll be relying on the tripod ring it comes with to support the camera. I'm simply worried if the camera will be comfortable enough for me to not need a grip...so the balance of the cam and lens shouldn't be a huge issue since I still use film cameras without any kind of contouring...bricks with a lens on the front I'm not "demanding" on my stuff...but carrying anything more than the M28 and M50 is getting cumbersome on my back once my bag is loaded with K10 and grip and everything else.

09-20-2009, 01:26 PM	#23
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	The screw drive motors are the same size on all Pentax DSLRs.

09-20-2009, 01:28 PM	#24
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Really? Maybe I was confusing it with "power on tap" and the Li-Ion cameras had more juice... My memory sucks

09-20-2009, 05:31 PM	#26
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	It's wonky under 30 feet? I know I was inside, but it was clear across the store... What I really want is a focus limiter either on the lens or in the body like some macro lenses. That way, the lenses won't constantly "run" from infinity to ~5ft when it misses focus. That's one place where the DA's short focus throw comes in useful.

09-20-2009, 09:34 PM	#28
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Put both lenses on my K10 and the store's K20...same result...same focus point...same conditions...same camera settings...everything. The FA came out on top for accuracy and speed. Don't know how...don't know why...

09-20-2009, 09:44 PM	#29
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by ryan s Put both lenses on my K10 and the store's K20...same result...same focus point...same conditions...same camera settings...everything. The FA came out on top for accuracy and speed. Don't know how...don't know why... hmmmmm.... I dunno either.

09-21-2009, 02:51 AM	#30
res3567 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Houston Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,876	Originally posted by ilya80 Hello Gentlemen, I need a bit of advice here. I`m thinking of going from K10D to smaller K-x camera. The only con. that has been outlined is the lack of visible selection of focus point. This doesn't apply to me since i`m taught by Pentax AF system to use central AF point and recompose \ AE-lock anyway. On the good sides for me is 1) size 2) New AF algorithms like those in k-7 3) Video, etc, etc.. Anything I`m missing a catch here? Please advise... Can you afford to have both?