looking for a second body - suggestions?

nobbsie · 09-26-2009, 07:54 PM

Since I've got a couple of paid gigs coming up at the end of the year (1, possibly 2 weddings and a model shoot) I've decided to invest in a second body instead of borrowing my dads K100D every time. My fiancee, who shoots with me also wants a body of her own. Since we're getting married ourselves in March we're trying to pinch pennies as much as possible so the K-7 is out of the question at this stage. I'm not looking to make photography my full time job anytime soon but would love to use it earn enough so that it atleast pays for itself.

I've been looking at used K10Ds from KEH. Obviously the K10 matches well with the K20 (control layout, batteries, grip) and it has a steller reputation. My only concerns are the backfocusing problems and the IQ over ISO800.

The K-x also looks very interesting, it would be great for my fiancee (small hands), great for travelling and no-so-serious shooting and should be a great low-light performer.

Any suggestions?

**Ash** · 09-26-2009, 09:11 PM

G'day mate.
If you intend to shoot above ISO 800 often, the K10D may not be the best body for you.
The K-m (probably best value for you), then the K20D (for best layout and control) would be better suited. The K-x is a newer release, which may well do better than the K-m in high ISO, but you'd have to see for yourself and I'm not sure how useful the video feature will be for you or your fiancee.
All the best in your decision.

nobbsie · 09-26-2009, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Ash

G'day mate.
If you intend to shoot above ISO 800 often, the K10D may not be the best body for you.
The K-m (probably best value for you), then the K20D (for best layout and control) would be better suited. The K-x is a newer release, which may well do better than the K-m in high ISO, but you'd have to see for yourself and I'm not sure how useful the video feature will be for you or your fiancee.
All the best in your decision.

Thanks mate, the K20D would be ideal but as you probably know it's still pretty expensive here, especially since the K-7 can be had for little over $300 more. I just read that the K-x like the K-m won't have focus point confirmation which is a deal breaker for me.

One thing I learnt from my first wedding is that it would be very useful to have 2 bodies on me nearly all the time. One with the 17-50, the other with the 70-200 during the ceremony and the DA70 for the rest of the day.

tomtor · 09-27-2009, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by nobbsie

I've been looking at used K10Ds from KEH. Obviously the K10 matches well with the K20 (control layout, batteries, grip) and it has a steller reputation. My only concerns are the backfocusing problems and the IQ over ISO800.

The K-x also looks very interesting, it would be great for my fiancee (small hands), great for travelling and no-so-serious shooting and should be a great low-light performer.

Only some K10s will have a backfocussing problem. Mine had, but you can fix it yourself by enabling a special firmware mode. I agree on the ISO800 limitation.

Having a body with the same button layout and viewfinder like the K20 will be an advantage. Another option is perhaps a secondhand K20?

I plan on buying the K-X, I'm not bothered by the missing viewfinder indications, I think I can remember where they are or have a quick look at the back screen, to see which I had selected. I plan on using it for lowlight situations (if the sensor is really good) and as an always with me camera with the FA77 or DA35.

I think however that the different layout, smaller viewfinder, missing option for a grip and lack of sealing are serious drawbacks if you plan to use it side by side with your K20 on a daily basis.

So I would suggest getting a K10 or K20.

Last edited by tomtor; 09-27-2009 at 12:50 AM.

**Rondec** · 09-27-2009, 03:13 AM

There is a big difference in high iso performance between the K20 and K10. I really don't trust the K10 over iso 800. Auto focus is not as good either (I know they are supposed to be the same, but they aren't). The biggest strength of the K10 is at low iso. Has really, really clean iso 100 -- almost no noise anywhere, even if you really pull up the shadows. Really good for long exposures.

I guess I don't know what K10's are running down under, but if there isn't too much difference, I would spring for the K20. I think it will do better under working conditions.

**Ash** · 09-27-2009, 03:44 AM

I would suggest to get the K20D second hand from B&H, Adorama or KEH.
A lot cheaper than buying one locally...

nobbsie · 09-27-2009, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I guess I don't know what K10's are running down under, but if there isn't too much difference, I would spring for the K20. I think it will do better under working conditions.

Performance when it counts is obviously the most important thing and in that respect the K20 rarely misses a beat.

Originally posted by Ash

I would suggest to get the K20D second hand from B&H, Adorama or KEH.
A lot cheaper than buying one locally...

That's the plan, especially with the current exchange rate. A K-m for my fiancee could well be the go, she's got a much better artistic eye than me but isn't up to speed on the technical details. We complement each other well

**interested_observer** · 09-27-2009, 07:13 AM

From another thread on the K20s, it seems that the new supply is getting somewhat depleted, and thus the prices are rising. I saw one on Amazon for $1,500US which is incredibly high. There are much lower prices (mid $600s) but from second and third tier retailers (for new units) - since it appears that B&H, Adorama are probably out.

So the trend I see is that as soon as the replacement model ships is about at the low point for prices from the primary retailers. Then it wanders around from there for awhile, until it is essentially a used only market.

With the KX just being announced, that probably indicates that the KM/2000 are at their probable near term low new prices, while the stock is run out. So now would be the time to buy if you want new with a reasonably low price. I see that Sam's club here inthe US (owned by WalMart) has one for a good price ($399) ....

Sam's Club - Pentax K2000 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera

... also, the KX/2000 really never came body only since its entry level, so the kit lens is included.

Hope that helps...

nobbsie · 09-27-2009, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

From another thread on the K20s, it seems that the new supply is getting somewhat depleted, and thus the prices are rising. I saw one on Amazon for $1,500US which is incredibly high. There are much lower prices (mid $600s) but from second and third tier retailers (for new units) - since it appears that B&H, Adorama are probably out.

So the trend I see is that as soon as the replacement model ships is about at the low point for prices from the primary retailers. Then it wanders around from there for awhile, until it is essentially a used only market.

With the KX just being announced, that probably indicates that the KM/2000 are at their probable near term low new prices, while the stock is run out. So now would be the time to buy if you want new with a reasonably low price. I see that Sam's club here inthe US (owned by WalMart) has one for a good price ($399) ....

Sam's Club - Pentax K2000 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera

... also, the KX/2000 really never came body only since its entry level, so the kit lens is included.

Hope that helps...

That's very true, I'll start looking at a K-m right away. I don't need to rush into purchasing a K20 until November, the used market should be a little cheaper by then and who knows where the price of the K7 will be.

jmc7104 · 09-27-2009, 07:07 PM

Since you have been borrowing a K100 why not buy a used one, already with the operation? jim

nobbsie · 09-27-2009, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by jmc7104

Since you have been borrowing a K100 why not buy a used one, already with the operation? jim

I used the K100D for 18months before giving it to dad. The IQ is great providing you don't crop much and it's a very good low-light performer. Unfortunately the buffer fills up very quickly when shooting RAW making operation slow if your shooting in quick succession (my fiancee's biggest complaint after she used it at our first wedding). The deafening KA-THUMP (it really is unbelievably loud) isn't desirable either atleast during the ceremony.

It's a shame Pentax doesn't make a cheap 6MP body with dual control wheels, a pentraprism with SR that runs on AAs it would be perfect for what I need.

**Ash** · 09-28-2009, 04:19 AM

Almost satisfied all criteria with the old *ist D. Just no SR.
I had it for a while and it really did well.
The mirror motor mechanism had a slower motion and whiny noise on operation, which I got used to and kind of liked - almost sounded like a film camera, with a 2.5fps and a bigger buffer than that of the K100D.

Perhaps then a K-m is the way to go for you and yours...

nobbsie · 09-28-2009, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Ash

Almost satisfied all criteria with the old *ist D. Just no SR.
I had it for a while and it really did well.
The mirror motor mechanism had a slower motion and whiny noise on operation, which I got used to and kind of liked - almost sounded like a film camera, with a 2.5fps and a bigger buffer than that of the K100D.

Perhaps then a K-m is the way to go for you and yours...

If I didn't think I'd miss SR so much the *ist D would certainly be at the top of the list. I'll probably go for a K-m and a second K20, the combo would suit me best and will be nearly paying for itself which is always a bonus.

**Lowell Goudge** · 09-28-2009, 06:52 AM

you might want an *istD for another reason, aside from high IS0

The *istD has TTL as well as P-TTL flash capability.

As a result, you can use older legacy glass and stipp get reliable flash results (i think better than P-TTL) with this camera. It is small, so fitting your fiancee's hands is no issue, it is a good reliable performer, and uses AA batteries.

The downslide is it can be SLLOOOWWWW one you have filled the buffer, but you can puyt very large CF cards into it or get an SD-CF adaptor (CF II form factor) and use SD cards.

The *istD is a great performer is low light, meters very well with manual aperture lenses, has TTL flash capability, is small yet full featured and dual thumb wheel controls like K10/K20/K7 and makes an excellent second body.

I still shoot with mine even though I have reciently added a K7 to go with my K10.

Each camera does different things well, and I have kept them all, as I have upgraded, making a versitile system, while having back-ups as I go.

I have found that the price drop after a few years as new models come out makes it uninteresting to continually trade up, so I just keep adding bodies.

One thing to point out and really stress here, when talking about high ISO and shake reduction. Don;t get confused and believe that shake reduction solves low light situations. All shake reduction does is eliminate camera shake, at low shutter speeds. Shake reduction cannot freeze a moving subject. In low light, High ISO and fast lenses are the only ways to elevate shutter speed to a point high enough to freeze a moving subject. Shake reduction actually is not needed when the subject is moving, and can cause image blurr if you have to pan the camera to track the subject.

09-26-2009, 07:54 PM	#1
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142	looking for a second body - suggestions? Since I've got a couple of paid gigs coming up at the end of the year (1, possibly 2 weddings and a model shoot) I've decided to invest in a second body instead of borrowing my dads K100D every time. My fiancee, who shoots with me also wants a body of her own. Since we're getting married ourselves in March we're trying to pinch pennies as much as possible so the K-7 is out of the question at this stage. I'm not looking to make photography my full time job anytime soon but would love to use it earn enough so that it atleast pays for itself. I've been looking at used K10Ds from KEH. Obviously the K10 matches well with the K20 (control layout, batteries, grip) and it has a steller reputation. My only concerns are the backfocusing problems and the IQ over ISO800. The K-x also looks very interesting, it would be great for my fiancee (small hands), great for travelling and no-so-serious shooting and should be a great low-light performer. Any suggestions?

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09-26-2009, 09:11 PM	#2
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	G'day mate. If you intend to shoot above ISO 800 often, the K10D may not be the best body for you. The K-m (probably best value for you), then the K20D (for best layout and control) would be better suited. The K-x is a newer release, which may well do better than the K-m in high ISO, but you'd have to see for yourself and I'm not sure how useful the video feature will be for you or your fiancee. All the best in your decision.

09-26-2009, 11:18 PM	#3
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ash G'day mate. If you intend to shoot above ISO 800 often, the K10D may not be the best body for you. The K-m (probably best value for you), then the K20D (for best layout and control) would be better suited. The K-x is a newer release, which may well do better than the K-m in high ISO, but you'd have to see for yourself and I'm not sure how useful the video feature will be for you or your fiancee. All the best in your decision. Thanks mate, the K20D would be ideal but as you probably know it's still pretty expensive here, especially since the K-7 can be had for little over $300 more. I just read that the K-x like the K-m won't have focus point confirmation which is a deal breaker for me. One thing I learnt from my first wedding is that it would be very useful to have 2 bodies on me nearly all the time. One with the 17-50, the other with the 70-200 during the ceremony and the DA70 for the rest of the day.

09-27-2009, 12:42 AM	#4
tomtor Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 382	Originally posted by nobbsie I've been looking at used K10Ds from KEH. Obviously the K10 matches well with the K20 (control layout, batteries, grip) and it has a steller reputation. My only concerns are the backfocusing problems and the IQ over ISO800. The K-x also looks very interesting, it would be great for my fiancee (small hands), great for travelling and no-so-serious shooting and should be a great low-light performer. Only some K10s will have a backfocussing problem. Mine had, but you can fix it yourself by enabling a special firmware mode. I agree on the ISO800 limitation. Having a body with the same button layout and viewfinder like the K20 will be an advantage. Another option is perhaps a secondhand K20? I plan on buying the K-X, I'm not bothered by the missing viewfinder indications, I think I can remember where they are or have a quick look at the back screen, to see which I had selected. I plan on using it for lowlight situations (if the sensor is really good) and as an always with me camera with the FA77 or DA35. I think however that the different layout, smaller viewfinder, missing option for a grip and lack of sealing are serious drawbacks if you plan to use it side by side with your K20 on a daily basis. So I would suggest getting a K10 or K20. Last edited by tomtor; 09-27-2009 at 12:50 AM.

09-27-2009, 03:13 AM	#5
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	There is a big difference in high iso performance between the K20 and K10. I really don't trust the K10 over iso 800. Auto focus is not as good either (I know they are supposed to be the same, but they aren't). The biggest strength of the K10 is at low iso. Has really, really clean iso 100 -- almost no noise anywhere, even if you really pull up the shadows. Really good for long exposures. I guess I don't know what K10's are running down under, but if there isn't too much difference, I would spring for the K20. I think it will do better under working conditions.

09-27-2009, 03:44 AM	#6
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	I would suggest to get the K20D second hand from B&H, Adorama or KEH. A lot cheaper than buying one locally...

09-27-2009, 04:31 AM	#7
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec I guess I don't know what K10's are running down under, but if there isn't too much difference, I would spring for the K20. I think it will do better under working conditions. Performance when it counts is obviously the most important thing and in that respect the K20 rarely misses a beat. Originally posted by Ash I would suggest to get the K20D second hand from B&H, Adorama or KEH. A lot cheaper than buying one locally... That's the plan, especially with the current exchange rate. A K-m for my fiancee could well be the go, she's got a much better artistic eye than me but isn't up to speed on the technical details. We complement each other well

09-27-2009, 07:13 AM	#8
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	From another thread on the K20s, it seems that the new supply is getting somewhat depleted, and thus the prices are rising. I saw one on Amazon for $1,500US which is incredibly high. There are much lower prices (mid $600s) but from second and third tier retailers (for new units) - since it appears that B&H, Adorama are probably out. So the trend I see is that as soon as the replacement model ships is about at the low point for prices from the primary retailers. Then it wanders around from there for awhile, until it is essentially a used only market. With the KX just being announced, that probably indicates that the KM/2000 are at their probable near term low new prices, while the stock is run out. So now would be the time to buy if you want new with a reasonably low price. I see that Sam's club here inthe US (owned by WalMart) has one for a good price ($399) .... Sam's Club - Pentax K2000 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera ... also, the KX/2000 really never came body only since its entry level, so the kit lens is included. Hope that helps...

09-27-2009, 05:10 PM	#9
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by interested_observer From another thread on the K20s, it seems that the new supply is getting somewhat depleted, and thus the prices are rising. I saw one on Amazon for $1,500US which is incredibly high. There are much lower prices (mid $600s) but from second and third tier retailers (for new units) - since it appears that B&H, Adorama are probably out. So the trend I see is that as soon as the replacement model ships is about at the low point for prices from the primary retailers. Then it wanders around from there for awhile, until it is essentially a used only market. With the KX just being announced, that probably indicates that the KM/2000 are at their probable near term low new prices, while the stock is run out. So now would be the time to buy if you want new with a reasonably low price. I see that Sam's club here inthe US (owned by WalMart) has one for a good price ($399) .... Sam's Club - Pentax K2000 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera ... also, the KX/2000 really never came body only since its entry level, so the kit lens is included. Hope that helps... That's very true, I'll start looking at a K-m right away. I don't need to rush into purchasing a K20 until November, the used market should be a little cheaper by then and who knows where the price of the K7 will be.

09-27-2009, 07:07 PM	#10
jmc7104 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rock Island, Illinois 61201 Photos: Gallery Posts: 436	Since you have been borrowing a K100 why not buy a used one, already with the operation? jim

09-27-2009, 11:49 PM	#11
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by jmc7104 Since you have been borrowing a K100 why not buy a used one, already with the operation? jim I used the K100D for 18months before giving it to dad. The IQ is great providing you don't crop much and it's a very good low-light performer. Unfortunately the buffer fills up very quickly when shooting RAW making operation slow if your shooting in quick succession (my fiancee's biggest complaint after she used it at our first wedding). The deafening KA-THUMP (it really is unbelievably loud) isn't desirable either atleast during the ceremony. It's a shame Pentax doesn't make a cheap 6MP body with dual control wheels, a pentraprism with SR that runs on AAs it would be perfect for what I need.

09-28-2009, 04:19 AM	#12
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Almost satisfied all criteria with the old *ist D. Just no SR. I had it for a while and it really did well. The mirror motor mechanism had a slower motion and whiny noise on operation, which I got used to and kind of liked - almost sounded like a film camera, with a 2.5fps and a bigger buffer than that of the K100D. Perhaps then a K-m is the way to go for you and yours...

09-28-2009, 06:32 AM	#13
nobbsie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 142 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ash Almost satisfied all criteria with the old ist D. Just no SR. I had it for a while and it really did well. The mirror motor mechanism had a slower motion and whiny noise on operation, which I got used to and kind of liked - almost sounded like a film camera, with a 2.5fps and a bigger buffer than that of the K100D. Perhaps then a K-m is the way to go for you and yours... If I didn't think I'd miss SR so much the ist D would certainly be at the top of the list. I'll probably go for a K-m and a second K20, the combo would suit me best and will be nearly paying for itself which is always a bonus.

09-28-2009, 06:52 AM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	you might want an istD for another reason, aside from high IS0 The istD has TTL as well as P-TTL flash capability. As a result, you can use older legacy glass and stipp get reliable flash results (i think better than P-TTL) with this camera. It is small, so fitting your fiancee's hands is no issue, it is a good reliable performer, and uses AA batteries. The downslide is it can be SLLOOOWWWW one you have filled the buffer, but you can puyt very large CF cards into it or get an SD-CF adaptor (CF II form factor) and use SD cards. The *istD is a great performer is low light, meters very well with manual aperture lenses, has TTL flash capability, is small yet full featured and dual thumb wheel controls like K10/K20/K7 and makes an excellent second body. I still shoot with mine even though I have reciently added a K7 to go with my K10. Each camera does different things well, and I have kept them all, as I have upgraded, making a versitile system, while having back-ups as I go. I have found that the price drop after a few years as new models come out makes it uninteresting to continually trade up, so I just keep adding bodies. One thing to point out and really stress here, when talking about high ISO and shake reduction. Don;t get confused and believe that shake reduction solves low light situations. All shake reduction does is eliminate camera shake, at low shutter speeds. Shake reduction cannot freeze a moving subject. In low light, High ISO and fast lenses are the only ways to elevate shutter speed to a point high enough to freeze a moving subject. Shake reduction actually is not needed when the subject is moving, and can cause image blurr if you have to pan the camera to track the subject.