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05-25-2007, 06:19 PM   #1
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shot counter

I noticed recently the shot counter is not exactly linear. That is, occasionally, for example, 10 shots taken shows on the counter as N remaining at 9 less than start.

I say occasionally as it seems to be more linear with raw, but jpeg dramatically less linear. Please, this isn't a raw vs. jpeg discussion. I occasionally shoot several hundred jpeg's in continuous mode for my multiple exposure trick.

Recently doing just this my shot counter showed 50 shots remaining. I shot them all to fill up the card, no exposure setting changes. Upon downloading the card I had actually captured 98 shots!

I would greatly appreciate an actual shot counter, in the viewfinder, that indexes up from a user selectable zero count, and is also enterable/downloadable in exif data.

Such a custom settable shot counter would be independant of the 'shot remaining' counter, sort of like a cars' odometer vs. trip odometer.

05-25-2007, 10:41 PM   #2
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JPEG counter is an estimate

RAW will be linear because every picture file has the exact same data.

However, with compression, the file size will vary. During the calculations to reduce the data for a JPEG file, the complexity of the scene is determined. A more complex scene will result in a bigger file. A simpler scene will take less.

Therefore, the "Shots Remaining" counter can never really know and is just an estimate based on the average. If you take pictures of complex scenes, you will not get as many shots as the "Shots Remaining". If the scenes are typically less complex, you will get many more than expected.

I don't know the algorithm that Pentax uses, but it might "learn" by averaging your photos over time and become more accurate. But it may also use the worst case scenario for calculating "Shots Remaining" in which case you will always get more than expected unless all the pictures are very complex.
05-26-2007, 07:30 PM   #3
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This is a popular question, there was a recent thread on the subject of shots remaining. I just checked over 2600 RAW PEFs from my K100D and they varied in size from 9247 to 11837. They too are an estimate for Shots Remaining.

It not like an odometer in a car which is constant (except for tire wear). It is more like the "Miles to Empty" on my Taurus which is an estimate based on the current MPG average. Besides, when my dashboard says "Miles to Empty 0" I still can drive another 30. My Pentax camera is much more accurate than my car!

When my 2 GIGs of memory can hold about 688 full size JPEGs I don't really mind if the counter is off by a few.
05-27-2007, 04:32 AM   #4
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Just look on the bright side, wouldn't it be better for your shots remaining count to show 10, but allow you to shoot 15 or show 10 and allow you to shoot 5

06-13-2007, 07:38 PM   #5
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does any camera have a user settable shot counter?
06-14-2007, 05:52 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Donald Quote
I noticed recently the shot counter is not exactly linear. That is, occasionally, for example, 10 shots taken shows on the counter as N remaining at 9 less than start.

I say occasionally as it seems to be more linear with raw, but jpeg dramatically less linear. Please, this isn't a raw vs. jpeg discussion. I occasionally shoot several hundred jpeg's in continuous mode for my multiple exposure trick.

Recently doing just this my shot counter showed 50 shots remaining. I shot them all to fill up the card, no exposure setting changes. Upon downloading the card I had actually captured 98 shots!

I would greatly appreciate an actual shot counter, in the viewfinder, that indexes up from a user selectable zero count, and is also enterable/downloadable in exif data.

Such a custom settable shot counter would be independant of the 'shot remaining' counter, sort of like a cars' odometer vs. trip odometer.
The shot counter will never be linear, but will always be a function of remaining memory space on the card, divided by an estimated (i guess by pentax) file size per shot, based upon shooting mode.

J-PEG is the hardest to guess because it uses image compression which will be a function of image content. if you take a perfect exposure of a clear blue sky where there is little or no change in color or exposure over the entire frame, you get a very small file.
06-15-2007, 02:46 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by LV Dan Quote
RAW will be linear because every picture file has the exact same data.

However, with compression, the file size will vary. During the calculations to reduce the data for a JPEG file, the complexity of the scene is determined. A more complex scene will result in a bigger file. A simpler scene will take less.

Therefore, the "Shots Remaining" counter can never really know and is just an estimate based on the average. If you take pictures of complex scenes, you will not get as many shots as the "Shots Remaining". If the scenes are typically less complex, you will get many more than expected.

I don't know the algorithm that Pentax uses, but it might "learn" by averaging your photos over time and become more accurate. But it may also use the worst case scenario for calculating "Shots Remaining" in which case you will always get more than expected unless all the pictures are very complex.
Only the DNG Raw will be linear, the PEF Raw files are compressed so you will get a variable number of shots beyond the initial counter setting, the number of remaing shots will get closer to the actual amount left as the card fills. With PEF's I estimate approx a +30% increase beyond the number the counter states, it's a reasonable rule of thumb.
06-15-2007, 04:17 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
With PEF's I estimate approx a +30% increase beyond the number the counter states, it's a reasonable rule of thumb.
Hi Richard,
On my 2GB Trancsend cards I get 123 DNG files and about 162 PEF files which translates to about a 25% increase. But you are right in that that number will vary depending the size of each individual PEF file.

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