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10-03-2009, 02:05 PM   #1
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Is it wrong to want to upgrade to the K20D and not the K7?

I have a K10D. Love it. Love using it. Love the feel of the body, love the control placement, it's a great camera. Most of the K20D photos somehow seem better than the ones I get with my K10D. Perhaps it is all the PP that takes place that makes it harder to tell what the camera is doing vs. what the photographer has done.

The K20D is discontinued but still $999 in Canada. The K-7 is almost $1700 for just the body. I don't think I would like the smaller body (although I haven't held it yet) and I would use the video feature about twice a year. (Perhaps that would change once I had it, I dunno). The SD card door and the I/O door have been cheapened up and that turns me off.

So what do I do? Keep trying to figure out the K10D (even after 4,000 photos taken with it I still produce shots that an amateur with a P&S would do) or do I get a K20D and use the K10D as a backup?

I should be excited by the K7 but it just seems to fall short of my expectations.

10-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
I have a K10D. Love it. Love using it. Love the feel of the body, love the control placement, it's a great camera. Most of the K20D photos somehow seem better than the ones I get with my K10D. Perhaps it is all the PP that takes place that makes it harder to tell what the camera is doing vs. what the photographer has done.

The K20D is discontinued but still $999 in Canada. The K-7 is almost $1700 for just the body. I don't think I would like the smaller body (although I haven't held it yet) and I would use the video feature about twice a year. (Perhaps that would change once I had it, I dunno). The SD card door and the I/O door have been cheapened up and that turns me off.

So what do I do? Keep trying to figure out the K10D (even after 4,000 photos taken with it I still produce shots that an amateur with a P&S would do) or do I get a K20D and use the K10D as a backup?

I should be excited by the K7 but it just seems to fall short of my expectations.
Your story leaves me with the impression a new body won't really improve your photo's. Perhaps spend your money on a photography course, or a book on photography in general or the K10D in particular.

With just 4.000 shots taken you're still not at the end of your learning curve. It took me over 10.000 shots to out-grow my k100d super, and that's a far more simpler camera than the k10d.
10-03-2009, 02:29 PM   #3
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If you don't need the video or 5fps, then there really isn't a good reason to choose the K7 over the K20d. The K20d has better high ISO and dynamic range than the K7 (DPReview). Autofocus isn't that much faster and is no faster with the DA* lenses.

I for one was just about to purchase a K20d from the states, but now both B&H and Adorama have pulled it from their sites. It would have cost ~$700c including shipping & exchange to get one shipped to canada. The Camera Store in Calgary have it for $900 ($1500 K7).

If you are going to get the K7, order it from the US. The exchange rate is still pretty good. Adorama has the body for $1236 canadian including shipping and exchange ($1099US). You only need to pay the GST on the camera once it arrives. The price difference means you can basically get the battery grip and extra battery for free.
10-03-2009, 03:17 PM   #4
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I share some observations from the prevsious post. There is a lot you can do with the K10. When ready, you can also do a lot with lenses (DA*, limited primes, etc) without upgrading the body.

I also have the K10D (started with the K100D) and really enjoy it. I stopped at a local camera shop just last night and held the K7 and it seemed a little small in my hands, but with the grip, which I would definitely get - it was just fine. The 5 fps along with the other features are definitely of interest for me!

10-03-2009, 03:36 PM   #5
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Here's an analogy:

"I have a nice car, however I'm not a particularly good driver. I can get a newer model that has a slightly more powerful engine and some more luxury options. So, should I keep my current car and learn to be a better driver, or buy a newer car and hope that it will somehow compensate for my shortcomings?"

Honestly, if the photos you wrangle from the K10D are "shots that an amateur with a P&S would do", well, that's on the photographer, not the camera.

And just as a post script, unless you are selling your photos, you are an "amateur".
10-03-2009, 03:46 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
So what do I do? Keep trying to figure out the K10D (even after 4,000 photos taken with it I still produce shots that an amateur with a P&S would do) or do I get a K20D and use the K10D as a backup?
Depends on why you're thinking of upgrading (you didn't say why you were).
If you think a K7 or K20D will magically make you a better photog, it won't. It's lots of practice and being hard on yourself (e.g., shoot 50 images, pick only one or two you think are good and understand why the others suck...I've been doing that over the past year and am finally getting better, but still have to crop way too much on the computer instead of being able to do it while composing).
10-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
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It seems to me there are some other factors which might influence your decision.

Do you shoot a lot in situations where 1) you need all the dynamic range you can get and 2) you process RAW files? It seems to me (as one who is considering the same upgrade question) that the K20D is the better choice in this case. If one is content to shoot JPEGs, the K-7's DR options appear to be better.

Do you change lenses a lot? If so, the K-7's dust reduction system appears to be an improvement. If you tend to keep one zoom lens on the camera that isn't much of an issue.

Do you like the idea of using AA batteries while traveling or in general? Obviously the K-7 with a grip is the answer (or perhaps one of the entry-level Pentax cameras).

Does one camera or the other fit your hand better? Only you can say.

Do you shoot sports, wildlife, running children or other subjects where you need the best autofocus and frame rate you can get? The K-7 appears to be better.

None of the above has that much to do with how good a photographer you are. The K-7 might be a more "professional" camera, but a professional usually would not undertake an assignment without a backup body and so if getting the K-7 meant having to get rid of the K10D, would probably go for keeping it and getting the K20D instead.
10-03-2009, 07:48 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by flippedgazelle Quote

Honestly, if the photos you wrangle from the K10D are "shots that an amateur with a P&S would do", well, that's on the photographer, not the camera.

And just as a post script, unless you are selling your photos, you are an "amateur".
Like flippedgazelle wrote, you go to take the blame yourself if your pics are no better than a P&S.
I've had my K10 for about a year, and am getting to grips with it now.
Owning a new camera in itself is a new learning curve, so just wanting to buy a new camera to hopefully improve your pics isn't the way to go.
4,000 shots isn't that many.
Get used to the K10, unless your one of those that likes to keep up with the Jones's.

10-03-2009, 07:56 PM   #9
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I can add that while I bought a K20D just prior to the K7 release, I did it with the full intention of using it until the K7 hit the >=$899 price point. That said I find I really love the K20D yet having come from a 40D there are what I consider short comings that reinforce my desire to move to the K7.

I must have a better continuous focus, IMPROVED AF period (the K20D is really not very good here which I sense is related to the continuous focus being, well, not great), faster FPS, improved exposure metering and a few other niggling things that are individually not a huge thing but very important to me.

One thing I really want is a significantly improved LiveView functionality as I used it a lot on my 40D for product shots. From what I read, the LiveView on the K7 does not appear to be much different from the K20D, unfortunately, which is a disappointment to me.

I am still going to wait a bit longer for the K7 to drop to where I need it to be. But there are enough difference between the two bodies which directly affect my needs to justify an upgrade today if money was like water, but it's not the past couple months so I am waiting a bit longer. I can say, if I had the extra cash I would buy a K7 today and sell the K20D I bought in June this year.

Not sure if that helps but those are my reasons...I would add that the features if the K7 were what made me switch in the first place...I just did it earlier before the price for my 40D dropped too low to be worth selling and the K20D was at a reasonable price...basically it was a $100 differential for me which I consider worth every penny. When I can get a K7 for under a $300 differential, it too will be worth it to me. Right now the $450+ difference is way too much. maybe your K10D reached the point where keeping it is a better value to you than selling it to fund a K7 purchase. If you find the right deal on a K20D now, you can always sell it in a few months when the K7 drops and not really lose much, if anything since I feel the price has pretty much bottomed out on that body for a while. In the mean time, you can get an super camera at what is really an honest price.
10-03-2009, 09:59 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
I have a K10D. Love it. Love using it. Love the feel of the body, love the control placement, it's a great camera. Most of the K20D photos somehow seem better than the ones I get with my K10D. Perhaps it is all the PP that takes place that makes it harder to tell what the camera is doing vs. what the photographer has done.

The K20D is discontinued but still $999 in Canada. The K-7 is almost $1700 for just the body. I don't think I would like the smaller body (although I haven't held it yet) and I would use the video feature about twice a year. (Perhaps that would change once I had it, I dunno). The SD card door and the I/O door have been cheapened up and that turns me off.

So what do I do? Keep trying to figure out the K10D (even after 4,000 photos taken with it I still produce shots that an amateur with a P&S would do) or do I get a K20D and use the K10D as a backup?

I should be excited by the K7 but it just seems to fall short of my expectations.

I don't think that the K-7's capabilities fall short of a photographer's expectations. it is more likely your personal expectation of the K-7's price should had been atleast affordable.

you said that you haven't really fully utilized your K10D camera and haven't really improved your shots. so that alone doesn't merit you even if you upgrade to a better system. you'll know when your ready to upgrade once the camera's capabilities doesn't meet your needs as a photographer and have difficulty producing acceptable shots. but producing good shots does not only rely on the camera alone but also with the photographer. there are a lot of K10D users here that I'm sure were able to produce nice photos. so you might as well do the painful route of improving your craft before you do some upgrade.

it would take a lot of actuations and a shutter failure before I see a need for an upgrade. not to mention SR, lowlight shooting and higher resolution needs, fps and higher shutterspeed. I could still produce some excellent shots with a PS cam and a bridge cam, but I certainly know what a dSLR with a fine glass is capable of doing more that those two can.

I already have the same number of actuations (4000) that you have now since I got my K-7 3 months ago. and I would tell you that I myself haven't fully utilized the K-7's other interesting features. for me, I'm much contented for now on using the same programme/manner of utilizing a dSLR but at a much effective and productive rate. but I would also spend some time experimenting on the other features of the cam itself. who knows, I may be able to open up a box of goodies.
10-03-2009, 10:45 PM   #11
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For Me !!!!

i sold my K10D's for two K20D's and have not looked back since. I was planning on getting the K-7, but since the high ISO is not up to the K20D I have not purchased the K-7 nor will I.

I will wait till next year's K-8 ...but I may get the KX as that camera looks like it has better high ISO than both the K20D and the K7.



wll
10-03-2009, 11:04 PM   #12
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As others have mentioned, the K20D is a more capable camera at high ISO with a few other minor tweaks, but I will also agree with those who suggest that if you're not getting the results you're after on your K10D, you're unlikely to change that with the K20D.

I still have my K10D and it complements my K20D very well. I get the results I want from both of them...
10-04-2009, 04:12 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
As others have mentioned, the K20D is a more capable camera at high ISO with a few other minor tweaks, but I will also agree with those who suggest that if you're not getting the results you're after on your K10D, you're unlikely to change that with the K20D.

I still have my K10D and it complements my K20D very well. I get the results I want from both of them...
Ash, I concur. The K10D and K20D in my kit still serve me very well. I use each for their strengths.

IMHO, the OP would gain from shooting and analyzing the resultant efforts than seeking a magic bullet via a new body.
10-04-2009, 07:23 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
I have a K10D. Love it. Love using it. Love the feel of the body, love the control placement, it's a great camera. Most of the K20D photos somehow seem better than the ones I get with my K10D. Perhaps it is all the PP that takes place that makes it harder to tell what the camera is doing vs. what the photographer has done.

The K20D is discontinued but still $999 in Canada. The K-7 is almost $1700 for just the body. I don't think I would like the smaller body (although I haven't held it yet) and I would use the video feature about twice a year. (Perhaps that would change once I had it, I dunno). The SD card door and the I/O door have been cheapened up and that turns me off.

So what do I do? Keep trying to figure out the K10D (even after 4,000 photos taken with it I still produce shots that an amateur with a P&S would do) or do I get a K20D and use the K10D as a backup?

I should be excited by the K7 but it just seems to fall short of my expectations.

it must be really frozen where you are, because I bought my K7 the first week it was in stores in toronto, and it was not that much even with tax. it must have gone down in price by now.
10-05-2009, 12:02 AM   #15
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I suggest that one of the factors in choosing to buy any upgrade is what the new camera can do that will help your camera performance in the area you choose to work in. If nothing or very little, stay with your existing camera.

In my case, i knew i wanted to get into shooting plays for the local amateur group and the K20 provided the additional ISO levels that would enable me to shoot in the low light conditions common to many theaters. In addition, i found the addtional ISO capabilities enabled faster shutter speeds or more DOF in evening pictures, even on a tripod. My lenses just seemed a lot more alive and capable with the K20's faster AF. I don't agree with the poster who said there wasn't much diff. between the K20 and the K10. I found the differences quite remarkable for the needs i have. The $600 i paid for the upgrade was def. worth it.

Some people have needs for some of the features the K7 provides. I'm suggesting that you decide based on the camera needs you have now or the additional flexibility you might anticipating wanting in the future.

Based on what my K20 can do now, and what the Kx is going to be capable of, i'm going to skip a generation and get the K8.

I can alos agree with those deciding to keep the K10. It did a lot for me and if i hadn't decided to get into areas where i needed more iso performance, i would still be using it.

best wishes.
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