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10-06-2009, 05:35 AM   #1
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K20D or K7

Hi there! I currently own a Olympus E510 and i'm selling it and thinking about switching brand... i felt in love long time ago with pentax( was supposed to buy a K10D instead of my E510... but the price was too high).
I'm leaving Olympus because :
1) dynamic range trouble with the E510 ( maybe it's juste me...)
2) Zuiko are great lenses, but there's not many lenses that are buyable for human being ( the really cost a lot and are really hard to find...)
3) Image quality is good... but not as good as i'd like it to be...

Mainly the fact that the Olympus lenses are really hard and high priced make me leave this brand...
So i turn on other to see what they have to offer... Sure i checked Canon and Nikon, but i'm not a huge fan of them ( i like to be different... and not have the same thing as other) Then i check Pentax... and well fell in love again :P
Right now i'm looking at
Canon 40D/50D ( mainly a used 40D)
Nikon... well a friend have a D90 so... he want's me to buy one too...
And Pentax K20D or K7

i haven't took picture for a while now since i dislike taking picture with my Olympus... But i love wildlife and landscape photography... i'm not a pro , nor a beginner...
Does pentax make good lenses that don't cost a leg?
As price is an issu for the body... is it worth wating and saving to get a K7? what's the big difference between the K20D and K7... i love the two ( ok the K7 is a bit sexier...)

So please help me make a choice
Thx

10-06-2009, 07:07 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Warax Quote
Hi there! I currently own a Olympus E510 and i'm selling it and thinking about switching brand... i felt in love long time ago with pentax( was supposed to buy a K10D instead of my E510... but the price was too high).
I'm leaving Olympus because :
1) dynamic range trouble with the E510 ( maybe it's juste me...)
2) Zuiko are great lenses, but there's not many lenses that are buyable for human being ( the really cost a lot and are really hard to find...)
3) Image quality is good... but not as good as i'd like it to be...

Mainly the fact that the Olympus lenses are really hard and high priced make me leave this brand...
So i turn on other to see what they have to offer... Sure i checked Canon and Nikon, but i'm not a huge fan of them ( i like to be different... and not have the same thing as other) Then i check Pentax... and well fell in love again :P
Right now i'm looking at
Canon 40D/50D ( mainly a used 40D)
Nikon... well a friend have a D90 so... he want's me to buy one too...
And Pentax K20D or K7

i haven't took picture for a while now since i dislike taking picture with my Olympus... But i love wildlife and landscape photography... i'm not a pro , nor a beginner...
Does pentax make good lenses that don't cost a leg?
As price is an issu for the body... is it worth wating and saving to get a K7? what's the big difference between the K20D and K7... i love the two ( ok the K7 is a bit sexier...)

So please help me make a choice
Thx
Hi,

First I guess you cannot go wrong with the Canon or Nikon as well as with the K20D or K-7.
On the dynamic range issue, you will find from the DPreview review results that all 3 brands do significantly better than Olympus.

Olympus makes very sharp lenses, all great but expensive.

If you'd look at the lens cost, it is a different matter with P, C or N.
In general Pentax glass is cheap. It is good or better if you'd compare it the consumer lenses, with comparable N & C consumer lenses.

The high grade lenses of Pentax (even with the latest price increase) are a lot cheaper than comparable N or C lenses. If you'd buy a C or N camera, a double kit option may save you a lot of money.
The in body shake reduction makes the high end glass cost around half the price of Canon or Nikon. I'm refering to european price levels here in general terms.

The added value of Pentax is that you'd get environmental sealing with the camera. And that can be a very valuable feature.
Also the inbody shake reduction will enable you to buy an old long pentax lens on ebay and do hand held shooting.

- Bert
10-06-2009, 07:16 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Warax Quote
Does pentax make good lenses that don't cost a leg?
As price is an issu for the body... is it worth wating and saving to get a K7? what's the big difference between the K20D and K7... i love the two ( ok the K7 is a bit sexier...)
On lenses, Pentax has a lot of excellent lenses for less than $1,000. The premium stuff (DA* and FA/DA Limiteds) tend to be in the $600-$1,200 range. Not a lot of selection but they have just enough to satisfy me. The Pentax Limited series lenses are unlike anything the other manufacturers have to offer.
Whether you go with the K20D or K-7, don't waste your money on mediocre glass....the high pixel density of the 14.6 megapixel sensor demands (and rewards) for good glass. In my experience with the K10D and now K20D, the K20D's sensor is a bit less forgiving in terms of glass quality and focus....but when you get it right, it's right.

As far as the body, tough call. It would appear from the recent review on the DPReview site and user's experience on this forum, the K-7 doesn't offer anything over the K20D in terms of pure image quality. Video capability, better build quality perhaps and smaller/better ergos seem be the key differences. Given that the K20D offers the same image quality for (currently) about half the price of the K-7, in my mind you'd have to really want the extra features of the K-7 to justify the cost.

Regards,
Terry
10-06-2009, 10:51 AM   #4
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Original Poster
Thanx for the info guys! As i keep reading review and blog over the net on the pentax lens and body, i keep finding things like " pentax is dying" or "pentax is dead"... Any thought on that? i know pentax doesn't have the same market place as the bigger Canon and Nikon... but does it mean it's dying?

10-06-2009, 11:02 AM   #5
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Apparently Pentax has been "dying" for about...oh, 30 years now...
(read: I don't think you need to worry)

c[_]
10-06-2009, 11:14 AM   #6
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I'd support K7..

more and more new features in it and smaller in size!!

HD video!!!
10-07-2009, 11:39 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Warax Quote
Thanx for the info guys! As i keep reading review and blog over the net on the pentax lens and body, i keep finding things like " pentax is dying" or "pentax is dead"... Any thought on that? i know pentax doesn't have the same market place as the bigger Canon and Nikon... but does it mean it's dying?
it died a few years ago, but I guess it has resurrected. don't pay much attention about those things. it is now backed and owned by HOYA, if you want some guarantee that it won't falter in a few years or so. you should be more than happy that it is getting some real attention now than it was before. just the prices alone should give you enough clue of where it stands with the bigboys !
10-07-2009, 04:27 PM   #8
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Naysayers will taunt others with the 'Pentax is dead/dying/hopeless' statement, and despite the brilliant results that are produced by its gear will always be rejected by them.

02-08-2010, 02:40 AM   #9
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I love the pentax build quality, i own a K7 and to be honest its fairly poor in terms of IQ.

i have to say , ive had the k100 super the k10d and now the k7, and i'm struggling to find improvements, well not 500.00 worth anyways, image quality is medioka with a kit lens and although you might see improvements on the flagship lenses, its not ground breaking.

im very disapointed really, i'm looking to get rid of it and start fresh.

i'm not a naysayer or a moody git, just using my intelligence to show this cameras true colours...ive read every review on the web about it good and bad, ive checked out the dxo labs site and checked the specs...

Iso...well the d90 scores 955 in iso performance the k7 scores 570
the dynamic range is below the nikon as well as is the overall sensor performance scoring 62 where as the d90 scores 75 (thats the problem) even the 450d out scores the k7 in two tests and thats an entry camera not a flagship model.

I really want to stay with pentax but i feel its a no hoper

but i dont blame pentax for the camera just the review sites for bigging it up and not informing us of its failings...nearly every review site says its good on iso ranges and an improvement over the previous models, but to be honest its a lie, the k10d beats it in a proper lab test..


We got blagged people...but i guess it's what you feel you can live with, i need quality, i have 20/20 vision and i see every hair on my dog or tree or anything, the camera does not replicate this, and i notice it, and ive been a camera user for around 15 years.
02-08-2010, 03:09 AM   #10
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Whether you choose a K20 or a K7 is really a question of whether you need the imprved features, namely the higher frame rate of the K7, the video capabilty or the (seemingly) slightly improved high ISO performance.

I still have a K10 and a K20 and though I'ld like the higher frame rate of the K7, I do not see, that an upgrade would be really worthwhile, as the image quality is quite comparable. The K20 images are very good up to ISO 800, and good up to ISO 1200, very useable up to ISO 1600 and even useable if needed at ISO 3200 - on my personal rating scale.

And despite Shaun's experience, I can easily resolve single hairs with a K20 shot. It all depends on good lenses and ofcourse the picture taking capabilites of the photographer. I am the only Pentax shooter near and far here, including friends and relatives and pro colleagues, but I haver seen anybody complaining or even mentioning, that the IQ of the Pentax images would be lower. The contrary is true. I even had lab technicians raving about the natural look of the Pentax images, I sent for prinitng, which looked much better as anything they got from their usual Canon customers.

The K20 also really takes a beating. It is a very solid piece of kit and I have abused it heavily (as I do with any camera), in rain, snow, extreme cold etc. Never let me down. And as other wrote, you will fine really good lenses for relatively low money. Yes, top of the line lenses cost more than 1000 bucks, but genrally the prices are comparable to Canon or Nikon. The Pentax primes are excellent and at least some of them, offer fairly unique quality, bith optically and in build.

I know, you could get similar image quality from a Nikon D300/3 or better quality at higher ISO from a full frame Nikon or Canon. But anywhere near the price tag of a K20, there is no serious competitor.

Ben

Last edited by Ben_Edict; 02-08-2010 at 05:18 AM.
02-08-2010, 03:32 AM   #11
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here's my two cents to help confuse you even more I came from a K100D and was oscillating between a K20D and K7. I got a K7 and I don't regret it at all. I choose it over K20 for several reasons:
-I wanted a new camera instead of used; new K20D run in the vicinity of 7-800USD, I got the K7 for 1000 including kit lens, not such a big difference. I plan to keep the K7 for at least 4-5 years, like I did with the K100D (unless something dramatically better appears in my price range, like something with live view AF and a tilt screen and some other features; no, FF is not on my wishlist).
- I wanted a smaller camera, the focus-assist light and AF speed improvement,
- I liked it that it has useable video (not a game-changer though, for me) and
- Most important, I could afford paying the difference from a new K20 to the new K7. If I wouldn't have afforded the difference I suppose I could happily accept the size difference and lack of some features and be very happy with the K20D too. Of course, the difference between a used K20D and a new K7 is even larger, so your mileage may vary.
And the comparison between K7 and K100D? Heaven and hell.
02-08-2010, 04:37 AM   #12
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I have both the k20d and K7 and prefer the K7.... Off the top of my head, the following things are in the K7s favour;

- AF-assist lamp
- Stereo mic
- HDMI video with 1024 30fps
- Cold resistant body
- Magnesium alloy body
- Electronic Level function
- AA battery option inside the Optional Grip
- 5.2 fps
- 77 segment AE
- Better Pentaprism
- 3.0 inch LCD with ~900K dot resolution
- True Mirror Lock-up vs 2 second timer

There are probably more as well if I compared the two specs....

Cheers,
Steve
02-08-2010, 05:09 AM   #13
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I agree with Ben. The K20/7 has something very organic about its colors that Canon in particular has trouble emulating. I have a K10 as well as a K20 and use the K20 almost exclusively because of the improvements between the cameras.

As to which to choose between the K7 and K20, the K7 is a little smaller, has video, better metering, faster frames per second and a mag alloy body (both are weather sealed). In addition, you can get the K7 with a weather sealed kit lens and there is some rebate program going on at the same time for 100 dollars off of each additional lens you get -- if you are interested in getting a couple of lenses, the price difference may not be that big.

What would I get? Probably the K7, but I must confess that I am really wanting to get an SLR that has video capability, but I don't think you would go wrong with either one.

As to Pentax dying. They are in pretty good shape right now. Looks like in Japan they are out selling Sony and Olympus at present with the Kx/K7 combo. They aren't and probably will never be Nikon/Canon, but it sounds like you are interested in something a little different. They have been turning a profit, even in the deep recession, for what that is worth.
02-08-2010, 05:15 AM   #14
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It's almost impossible to find a new K20D nowadays, even if you did, it will be close to K-7 prices. Instead you might wanna check this thread.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/89029-one-you-woul...r-k-7-k-x.html
02-08-2010, 05:36 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaun2k Quote
I love the pentax build quality, i own a K7 and to be honest its fairly poor in terms of IQ.

i have to say , ive had the k100 super the k10d and now the k7, and i'm struggling to find improvements, well not 500.00 worth anyways, image quality is medioka with a kit lens and although you might see improvements on the flagship lenses, its not ground breaking.

im very disapointed really, i'm looking to get rid of it and start fresh.

i'm not a naysayer or a moody git, just using my intelligence to show this cameras true colours...ive read every review on the web about it good and bad, ive checked out the dxo labs site and checked the specs...

Iso...well the d90 scores 955 in iso performance the k7 scores 570
the dynamic range is below the nikon as well as is the overall sensor performance scoring 62 where as the d90 scores 75 (thats the problem) even the 450d out scores the k7 in two tests and thats an entry camera not a flagship model.

I really want to stay with pentax but i feel its a no hoper

but i dont blame pentax for the camera just the review sites for bigging it up and not informing us of its failings...nearly every review site says its good on iso ranges and an improvement over the previous models, but to be honest its a lie, the k10d beats it in a proper lab test..


We got blagged people...but i guess it's what you feel you can live with, i need quality, i have 20/20 vision and i see every hair on my dog or tree or anything, the camera does not replicate this, and i notice it, and ive been a camera user for around 15 years.
Shaun, I don't share your sentiment but rather have the opposite. if we are talking about overall IQ, I would strongly disagree with you in that department. if it were HIGH ISO IQ at 6400, I would had agreed with you.

I don't feel that I had been blagged since I'm able to get the results that I was expecting to get.

although I'm curious or a bit puzzled on why is it only now that you just joined the forum since you had 2 previous models of Pentax cameras. not to mention that you only tried or posted some photos that is shot only using the K-7 and a kitlens. why didn't you try or use the premium lenses (if you have any) inorder to support such claim that the image results are nothing spectacular even if you use superior lenses?

the reason that I ask this is because of the fact that I have a kit lens and premium lenses as my basis of comparison. and I certainly could tell if a lens is short of something spectacular. what also puzzles me is your logic that the camera has something to do with the lenses performance. like eventhough no matter how good the lens is, if the camera sucks, the image would suck as well. as if deeming a premium grade lens to perform slightly better than the kitlens. I find such concept just hard to believe.

and what's more is you are asking questions that are quite out of character of a Pentax owner that had 2 Pentax gears as you claimed, but ask how does Pentax warranty works? are you sure that you claim about what you have and claim to be?

you are not telling us tall tales, are you?

Last edited by Pentaxor; 02-08-2010 at 05:53 AM.
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