K20d Problem

Fl_Gulfer · 10-13-2009, 02:07 PM

I took both photo's with the same settings with my K20d and K100d and Sigma 100-300 on a tripod the exact same distance. So what is wrong with my K20d? The K100 takes a much clearer photo.
Click to enlarge to see the 1600x1200 shots.

K20d

K100d

Thanks Guys & Gals

imtheguy · 10-13-2009, 03:14 PM

You seem to be an experienced photog so I don't know why you post two shots with no information about the camera settings and want us to guess at what is different. At least we can see the ISO, f-number and exposure time are a little different between the two. The color difference may be due to the K100 using sRGB for its color space while the K20D has an "unregistered" color space that obviously is not a camera setting, maybe changed in PP. A hundred other menu settings affect the picture. What exactly are we looking for?

causey · 10-13-2009, 03:27 PM

The K20D pic seems underexposed.

**Ash** · 10-13-2009, 03:30 PM

By same settings do you mean same Tv, Av and ISO in M mode for both cameras?
Or do you mean same camera mode but auto metering?
More info required for sure.

jeffkrol · 10-13-2009, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer

I took both photo's with the same settings with my K20d and K100d and Sigma 100-300 on a tripod the exact same distance. So what is wrong with my K20d? The K100 takes a much clearer photo.
Click to enlarge to see the 1600x1200 shots.

K20d

K100d

Thanks Guys & Gals

Besides the WB and exposure differences??... Anyways it seems the k20 front focused a bit. Aperature looks fairly large (by my guessitmate) and DOF is not very deep...

Fl_Gulfer · 10-13-2009, 04:00 PM

Sorry they were both set on the green setting, ISO is on Auto. I set everything so the camera would make the best settings on both. I was mainlt wondering about the poor focus of the K20d, I always wondered why the K100d took much better shots.

Marc Sabatella · 10-13-2009, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer

Sorry they were both set on the green setting, ISO is on Auto. I set everything so the camera would make the best settings on both.

"Best" settings in theory for some purpose, maybe, but th camera can't read you mind as to your intent, and the settings chosen by the K20D were not ideal for your particular particular purpose here. According to the EXIF, the K20D chose ISO 100 and f/4, yielding a shutter speed of 1/350", which would have been great *if* you had managed to hold steadier than you did, and if you didn't mind the shallow DOF that resulted from shooting 300mm at f/4. The K100D doesn't have the option of ISO 100, so it went to ISO 200, whicvh gave you a faster shutter speed, which enabled you to get a less blurry photo. Also for whatever reason chose f/4.5, which yielded slightly more DOF - probably just enough to create the illusion of a sharper photo. Then, on top of that, the K20D happened to choose to focus on a part of the dummy that was a little forward of the part of the dummy the K100D chose to focus on.

Quote:

I always wondered why the K100d took much better shots.

Uless your particular K20D is defective - and nothing about this test suggests it is - then it should be capable of doing as well as or better than the K100D. You can't base too much on one test like this where you failed to control any of the basic parameters that contribute to the things you are testing for.

creampuff · 10-13-2009, 05:40 PM

Exposure and ISO not to mention auto settings between the two images are different. So naturally the images will look different.

K100D: 1/500sec at f/4.5 ISO 200 Portrait mode
K20D 1/350 sec at f/4 ISO 100 Program (Auto)

sharathk · 10-13-2009, 05:51 PM

there is exif info on those images.
go to online exif viewer like:

Jeffrey's Exif viewer

and put in the url of the image.
K20D Image

**Ash** · 10-13-2009, 07:11 PM

Then the results are just not comparable.
Green mode takes over far too many variables - or perhaps the comparison is between two green modes from two different cameras...

Either way, there's no 'problem' with the K20D from what we see here.

Fl_Gulfer · 10-13-2009, 07:17 PM

These photo's were taken on a tripod with a wired remote switch. I unscrewed the camera from the lens while on the tripod as to not move anything.
I know the lighting is different but the focus should have been the same on both shots. The k20 is no where close to as good as the K100.
All this time I thought it was my wife having a steadier hand, but now that I spent all this money on a great tripod I see its the camera thats screwed up.

Marc Sabatella · 10-13-2009, 07:21 PM

I still don't see evidence of that. Like I said, the cameras appear to have happened to have chosen two different areas of the image to focus on, and the K20D was saddled with a wider aperture - meaning less DOF, and also a simply less sharp image. As for the tripod, I take it then you used the two-second timer?

There's still just far too many vairbales to conclude anything meaningful from this test. Shoot a series of images while controlling the focus better and using the *same* exposure before leaping to conclusions.

rfortson · 10-13-2009, 07:22 PM

I agree it's hard to draw conclusions from these two shots. However, I'd consider taking some more shots with the lens/K20D combination to see if others are slightly OOF. If so, you should try the in-camera adjustment. I was always a little dissappointed in my Bigma shots, but I adjusted the focus in my K20D and now the shots are just a little sharper, and that makes all the difference.

BTW, on the K20D shot, did you wait for the SR to engage before snapping the shutter? It looks like you could have a slight bit of camera shake.

Fl_Gulfer · 10-13-2009, 07:28 PM

I'll take some more shots tomorrow after class to show you what I mean. I'll make sure everything is the same.

imtheguy · 10-13-2009, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by rfortson

BTW, on the K20D shot, did you wait for the SR to engage before snapping the shutter? It looks like you could have a slight bit of camera shake.

It better not have engaged on a tripod mounted, remote fired shot.

10-13-2009, 02:07 PM	#1
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054	K20d Problem I took both photo's with the same settings with my K20d and K100d and Sigma 100-300 on a tripod the exact same distance. So what is wrong with my K20d? The K100 takes a much clearer photo. Click to enlarge to see the 1600x1200 shots. K20d K100d Thanks Guys & Gals

10-13-2009, 05:40 PM	#8
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Exposure and ISO not to mention auto settings between the two images are different. So naturally the images will look different. K100D: 1/500sec at f/4.5 ISO 200 Portrait mode K20D 1/350 sec at f/4 ISO 100 Program (Auto) Last edited by creampuff; 10-13-2009 at 05:47 PM.

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10-13-2009, 03:14 PM	#2
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	You seem to be an experienced photog so I don't know why you post two shots with no information about the camera settings and want us to guess at what is different. At least we can see the ISO, f-number and exposure time are a little different between the two. The color difference may be due to the K100 using sRGB for its color space while the K20D has an "unregistered" color space that obviously is not a camera setting, maybe changed in PP. A hundred other menu settings affect the picture. What exactly are we looking for?

10-13-2009, 03:27 PM	#3
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757	The K20D pic seems underexposed.

10-13-2009, 03:30 PM	#4
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	By same settings do you mean same Tv, Av and ISO in M mode for both cameras? Or do you mean same camera mode but auto metering? More info required for sure.

10-13-2009, 03:49 PM	#5
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer I took both photo's with the same settings with my K20d and K100d and Sigma 100-300 on a tripod the exact same distance. So what is wrong with my K20d? The K100 takes a much clearer photo. Click to enlarge to see the 1600x1200 shots. K20d K100d Thanks Guys & Gals Besides the WB and exposure differences??... Anyways it seems the k20 front focused a bit. Aperature looks fairly large (by my guessitmate) and DOF is not very deep...

10-13-2009, 04:00 PM	#6
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054 Original Poster	Sorry they were both set on the green setting, ISO is on Auto. I set everything so the camera would make the best settings on both. I was mainlt wondering about the poor focus of the K20d, I always wondered why the K100d took much better shots.

10-13-2009, 05:09 PM	#7
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer Sorry they were both set on the green setting, ISO is on Auto. I set everything so the camera would make the best settings on both. "Best" settings in theory for some purpose, maybe, but th camera can't read you mind as to your intent, and the settings chosen by the K20D were not ideal for your particular particular purpose here. According to the EXIF, the K20D chose ISO 100 and f/4, yielding a shutter speed of 1/350", which would have been great if you had managed to hold steadier than you did, and if you didn't mind the shallow DOF that resulted from shooting 300mm at f/4. The K100D doesn't have the option of ISO 100, so it went to ISO 200, whicvh gave you a faster shutter speed, which enabled you to get a less blurry photo. Also for whatever reason chose f/4.5, which yielded slightly more DOF - probably just enough to create the illusion of a sharper photo. Then, on top of that, the K20D happened to choose to focus on a part of the dummy that was a little forward of the part of the dummy the K100D chose to focus on. Quote: I always wondered why the K100d took much better shots. Uless your particular K20D is defective - and nothing about this test suggests it is - then it should be capable of doing as well as or better than the K100D. You can't base too much on one test like this where you failed to control any of the basic parameters that contribute to the things you are testing for.

10-13-2009, 05:51 PM	#9
sharathk Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 146	there is exif info on those images. go to online exif viewer like: Jeffrey's Exif viewer and put in the url of the image. K20D Image

10-13-2009, 07:11 PM	#10
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Then the results are just not comparable. Green mode takes over far too many variables - or perhaps the comparison is between two green modes from two different cameras... Either way, there's no 'problem' with the K20D from what we see here.

10-13-2009, 07:17 PM	#11
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054 Original Poster	These photo's were taken on a tripod with a wired remote switch. I unscrewed the camera from the lens while on the tripod as to not move anything. I know the lighting is different but the focus should have been the same on both shots. The k20 is no where close to as good as the K100. All this time I thought it was my wife having a steadier hand, but now that I spent all this money on a great tripod I see its the camera thats screwed up.

10-13-2009, 07:21 PM	#12
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I still don't see evidence of that. Like I said, the cameras appear to have happened to have chosen two different areas of the image to focus on, and the K20D was saddled with a wider aperture - meaning less DOF, and also a simply less sharp image. As for the tripod, I take it then you used the two-second timer? There's still just far too many vairbales to conclude anything meaningful from this test. Shoot a series of images while controlling the focus better and using the same exposure before leaping to conclusions.

10-13-2009, 07:22 PM	#13
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	I agree it's hard to draw conclusions from these two shots. However, I'd consider taking some more shots with the lens/K20D combination to see if others are slightly OOF. If so, you should try the in-camera adjustment. I was always a little dissappointed in my Bigma shots, but I adjusted the focus in my K20D and now the shots are just a little sharper, and that makes all the difference. BTW, on the K20D shot, did you wait for the SR to engage before snapping the shutter? It looks like you could have a slight bit of camera shake.

10-13-2009, 07:28 PM	#14
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054 Original Poster	I'll take some more shots tomorrow after class to show you what I mean. I'll make sure everything is the same.

10-13-2009, 09:56 PM	#15
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by rfortson BTW, on the K20D shot, did you wait for the SR to engage before snapping the shutter? It looks like you could have a slight bit of camera shake. It better not have engaged on a tripod mounted, remote fired shot.