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10-16-2009, 08:06 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I shoot Raw + jpeg on my K20D. I find Vibrant image tone, with saturation, contrast etc set to zero, gives the most natural reds and yellows. Natural tone is a bit flat, Bright and Landscape colours are pretty, but not accurate (good for some things).
Oh for gods sake everyone! Do the decent thing and take a white balance reading for anything remotely important. There are thousands of cheap white balance calibration tools on the market, or just measure off some grass or other mid tone in situ. No photographer worth his/her salt lets the camera make these decisions for them, so get used to treating a pro specced camera in a professional way,

sorry, rant over

dave

10-16-2009, 08:11 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by davebris33 Quote
Oh for gods sake everyone! Do the decent thing and take a white balance reading for anything remotely important. There are thousands of cheap white balance calibration tools on the market, or just measure off some grass or other mid tone in situ. No photographer worth his/her salt lets the camera make these decisions for them, so get used to treating a pro specced camera in a professional way,

sorry, rant over

dave
Your rant isn't worth much. WB is whatever I want it to be in raw mode.
10-16-2009, 08:20 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by davebris33 Quote
Oh for gods sake everyone! Do the decent thing and take a white balance reading for anything remotely important. There are thousands of cheap white balance calibration tools on the market, or just measure off some grass or other mid tone in situ. No photographer worth his/her salt lets the camera make these decisions for them, so get used to treating a pro specced camera in a professional way,

sorry, rant over

dave
How the hell do you white balance off grass?
10-16-2009, 11:01 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by davebris33 Quote
Oh for gods sake everyone! Do the decent thing and take a white balance reading for anything remotely important. There are thousands of cheap white balance calibration tools on the market, or just measure off some grass or other mid tone in situ. No photographer worth his/her salt lets the camera make these decisions for them, so get used to treating a pro specced camera in a professional way,

sorry, rant over

dave
QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
How the hell do you white balance off grass?
I'm curious too. Please elaborate.

10-16-2009, 12:54 PM   #20
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I suspect it is new technology to have bunch of glass with you :-)
And I find it really unusable to manually set white balance by white card for outside shooting if all photos are not made in exact same situation.
In reality it is simple algorithm to make subsampled array from RAW data, make few calculations, get special parameters vector and look for this vector in WB database.
Some people still believe that camera want to make average gray tone, it is not so.
In reality DSLR always lacks compared to best compacts. But each compact is not created equal, any bad calibration can result in constant problem.
And after you look at internal parameters on K20D or GX20 calibration you'll amazed how it could render anything looking similar to reality. You could easeally get one very good camera and one that renders colors very bad.
10-16-2009, 03:29 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I'm curious too. Please elaborate.
Well to white balance you can meter (measure) off any mid tone.. (although it's not ideal, i did mean if you were in a fix and there was no mid grey to measure off)

And white balance is still very important in RAW as getting it right in camera means less post processing and in mixed (incandescent and tungsten or flash/sunlight mixed together) lighting conditions it is pretty much the the only way to get it spot on, doing it after is very difficult to avoid casts in these situatons...also changing white balance radically in RAW if you have shot at a medium ISO or higher can result in more noise and dynamic range reduction in some situations...so it is still better to meter from a 18% kodak grey card in situ and get it right from the start
10-16-2009, 03:30 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Your rant isn't worth much. WB is whatever I want it to be in raw mode.
Most of this discussion has been about shooting JPEG, so setting your white balance is doubly important in this case as JPEG's can be a pig to WB after the fact.
10-16-2009, 03:33 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by tr13 Quote
I suspect it is new technology to have bunch of glass with you :-)
And I find it really unusable to manually set white balance by white card for outside shooting if all photos are not made in exact same situation.
In reality it is simple algorithm to make subsampled array from RAW data, make few calculations, get special parameters vector and look for this vector in WB database.
Some people still believe that camera want to make average gray tone, it is not so.
In reality DSLR always lacks compared to best compacts. But each compact is not created equal, any bad calibration can result in constant problem.
And after you look at internal parameters on K20D or GX20 calibration you'll amazed how it could render anything looking similar to reality. You could easeally get one very good camera and one that renders colors very bad.
The camera may or may not be trying to make a grey tone, that i cannot answer, but it sure as hell knows what a grey tone is, and can therefore make an accurate calibration against it, hence the standard for WB measurement is still an 18% kodak grey card. Also making a sub sampled array of your calculated data looked up in a vector database sounds quite hard work, compared to holding a piece of grey cardboard up in front of a camera for a few seconds.

11-08-2009, 11:49 AM   #24
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"GX20 has folowing color related settings:
WB adjustment (color shift) for each WB mode
Picture mode saturation
Picture mode tone
I tried playing with all of them. But came to simple conclusion that it takes less time to process RAW or JPEG file rather them use trial and error without significant results."


I came in rather late on this because many solutions have been suggested on the assumption that tr13 has omitted doing something on the GX20 which ought to have been done. My immpression is that he has done a pretty thorough job of trying to get it right.
I have had the same difficulty with autumn yellows that tr13 had on the same type of camera. The settings for getting the result in-camera seem not be there in the GX20. Shooting RAW fles is a viable option but it would appear that tr13 was trying to get it right first time in-camera and could not .
12-08-2009, 02:49 PM   #25
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GO RAW!:)

Indeed the color settings differ from GX-20 to K20D. There's no hue setting on the Samsung.
I don't like the colors in the GX-20 JPGs either so I've switched to DNG for good.
Of course the downside is that I fill up my SD cards and hard drives quite fast
12-12-2009, 02:34 PM   #26
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The jpg colors are indeed a bit cold on Samsung GX-20, but in RAW mode the are exceptional. If you are a jpg shooter there ar a lot of options to accommodate your needs and you can create a custom profile to use it as default.For exemple set your custom 1 profile to wharm or red (color tone), -1 saturation, -1 contrast, +2 sharpness and see if if you like it....

I personally was surprised to hear such complains about the camera because if man knows what he is doing gets exquisite results. Is very simple, just reed the manual and practice a bit...

Last edited by seliscan; 12-12-2009 at 03:23 PM.
12-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by seliscan Quote
....I personally was surprised to hear such complains about the camera because if man knows what he is doing gets exquisite results. Is very simple, just reed the manual and practice a bit...
The OP does not appear to have shirked experimentation and judging from his remarks appears to have read the manual. He has not got the desired result: the right colour balance straight from the camera JPEG. Some other members have advised him to work at white balance He evidently knows how that is done so the advice though well-meant is gratituitous.
02-22-2010, 02:23 PM   #28
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What about skin tones?

I've been offered a Samsung GX20 instead of a K20d and am wondering if this is a good idea. The dealer has assured me that the two bodies are 'identical' (haha!) but it's the people colours that concern me. My ist is pretty good, better than the Canon 30D was, is the Samsung better still?

The slightly larger body would suit me as well as the deal being offered, so I am tempted, but......
03-02-2010, 05:55 AM   #29
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I have a GX20 and love it - I will agree that sometimes the colours are odd (I recognise those blues!!), but it's like any piece of equipment, you need to learn how to get the best out of it. My first trip out with my camera was to a deer park and resulted in some very strange colour trees.. and deer too for that matter. anything with green in it was too yellow, but I persevered and now I don't have that problem, or if I do it takes a second in Lightroom to correct. I DO have it permanently set to +.7 ev though, as I find it does tend to underexpose when compared to other cameras. In a studio lesson, we were all told what settings to use, everyone else's images were fine, mine were about .7 under... easy to fix, and sometimes what the camera wants to do even ties up with what i want to do...!

I did a trial run once, when I was under pressure to change make - i borrowed a Canon 5D and a Nikon D2X for the day and shot identical images with all three cameras, and not surprisingly, all the resulting images were different. There were parts of each image that I liked, and parts in each I didn't. I figured that I should stick with what I have since changing would mean learning a whole load of new tricks for another camera.

Tr13, I'd stick with it, the GX20 is a completely different beast to any compact, so much more versatile, and personally I love what I can get out of mine. Lightroom cures any problem I have, and any focussing issues are usually pretty easily corrected as you can calibrate your lenses to the camera, it may take an hour if you have a lot of lenses but really worth the effort.

Justinr - I've spent a lot of time in the studio lately, and I don't find skin tones a problem, in fact I've found I have less correcting to for studio work. I do use a grey card to correct the white balance as that makes things simple, and my monitor is calibrated. I have some of my studio stuff on here if you want to take a look.
04-28-2010, 09:33 AM   #30
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a od czego macie customizacje?Ja tam gdzie jest podgląd głębi ostrości ustawiłem WB i zawsze trafiam.Roboty mało a WB zawsze idealnie dostraja jpg.....a zresztą nie po to mam dslr by nie używać raw
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