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05-30-2007, 06:14 PM   #31
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I think we've piled on a bit...but there is some good advice here.

Something constructive I want to add:
  • Knowing how to use flash is critical. Go to strobist.com if you haven't already. It is such an excellent resource, it shouldn't be free.
  • I personally would want TTL and/or wireless flash support. This means *ist D or K10D with Pentax/Sigma wireless flashes, or *ist D/DS/DS2 with good TTL flashes.
  • I'm a prime lens fanatic. Both Canon and Pentax have great primes readily available. You should pick some up no matter upon which route you decide.
  • Go get a Spotmatic or even a Holga. Try out an old rangefinder to see if you like them (I don't).
  • I assume you'll have your school's dark room available - use it.


Keep your head up, and like I said earlier - good luck, be well, and don't believe most of what you hear.

05-30-2007, 06:30 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by smcclelland Quote
Frankly from a newcomer standpoint I don't really see where the disappointment in the K100D comes from or why you feel the need to have such "professional equipment" right away.
He wasnt saying that he was disappointed with the k100d, he was saying that most of his decision is based on the lack of decent pentax glass where he lives. And im in the same situation. Why make a commitment on a camera system when there is only a handful of decent lenses available close by.

Lets look at it this way, say im shooting canon. I can walk into any of the big name camera stores near me (and the smaller ones too), hand over the cash for a canon 70-200 f2.8L IS and take it home that day. For pentax, i would either be getting the sigma 70-200 f2.8 HSM or the DA* 50-150 f2.8 SDM, neither of which are available or have a definite release date, so i would be handing over the cash to be put on a waiting list.

Say im not after that lens in particular. Most of the camera shops do carry the usual 16-45, 50-200 and maybe the 10-17. but if im after anything else, fat chance. Id even be waiting for a 3rd party lens for pentax to be ordered in by the camera shop. So that would be a couple of days wait at least.

In short, C&N (and even olympus now) have a better range of glass that is readily available to the public. Until pentax can at least come close to that, they are going to miss out on a lot of customers and even lose some in the process.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisA Quote
I
And is an FA* lens at 4.1 MP going to give better results than an FA lens at 10 MP? Really?
Like he has said, the MP doesnt bother him. Heck there are tons of people going from 20d/30d and XTi's to a 1d classic because it is an upgrade. Yes more detail can be captured with a higher MP count, but think of what else the camera has going for it.

Throw any L series lens on a 1d classic, and you are going to get amazing performance, once you know how to handle it.
05-30-2007, 06:47 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I hate sorting through all the pic's that I take
I'd sure hate to have 3 times more to sort through.

In the last week I've probably taken around 400 photo's and sorted through about 75 of them And I won't have time to for at least another week.
Last week I shot 8GB during the day at a track meet championship, then shot another 4GB that night at a wedding. Try sorting through all of that!
05-30-2007, 07:01 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by -spam- Quote
He wasnt saying that he was disappointed with the k100d, he was saying that most of his decision is based on the lack of decent pentax glass where he lives. And im in the same situation. Why make a commitment on a camera system when there is only a handful of decent lenses available close by.

Lets look at it this way, say im shooting canon. I can walk into any of the big name camera stores near me (and the smaller ones too), hand over the cash for a canon 70-200 f2.8L IS and take it home that day. For pentax, i would either be getting the sigma 70-200 f2.8 HSM or the DA* 50-150 f2.8 SDM, neither of which are available or have a definite release date, so i would be handing over the cash to be put on a waiting list.

Say im not after that lens in particular. Most of the camera shops do carry the usual 16-45, 50-200 and maybe the 10-17. but if im after anything else, fat chance. Id even be waiting for a 3rd party lens for pentax to be ordered in by the camera shop. So that would be a couple of days wait at least.

In short, C&N (and even olympus now) have a better range of glass that is readily available to the public. Until pentax can at least come close to that, they are going to miss out on a lot of customers and even lose some in the process.



Like he has said, the MP doesnt bother him. Heck there are tons of people going from 20d/30d and XTi's to a 1d classic because it is an upgrade. Yes more detail can be captured with a higher MP count, but think of what else the camera has going for it.

Throw any L series lens on a 1d classic, and you are going to get amazing performance, once you know how to handle it.
I can totally understand his frustration in that matter. I live in San Diego California, and there is not one store here that I can walk in & walk out with the Pentax lens of my choice. But they have wall-to-wall lenses for Canon & Nikon. It sux having to wait for it to be ordered!!

05-30-2007, 07:22 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr CJ Quote
It sux having to wait for it to be ordered!!
Try being told by one store that they wont bother ordering it in for you and to go across to the other side of town for another store that might
05-30-2007, 08:28 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr CJ Quote
I can totally understand his frustration in that matter. I live in San Diego California, and there is not one store here that I can walk in & walk out with the Pentax lens of my choice.
Nelson's Photo Supply on India Street in Little Italy has a selection of Pentax equipment, including a selection of lenses. I walked into the store and walked out with a Pentax DA 12-24 f4 just about 2 weeks ago. Calumet Photo in Escondido also has a selection of Pentax equipment. I believe that George's in North Park also carries Pentax, but I haven't been in that store for a long time.

It is true that most stores have a more extensive selection of other brands, and big box stores and shopping mall chains will have little Pentax stuff. But there are stores in San Diego that do carry Pentax gear. And if you and I shop there, then they will be inclined to carrry more Pentax gear.
05-30-2007, 11:20 PM   #37
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Pease tell me that we are not silly enough to blame a manufacturer for the inadequacies of local retailers.

Do we want what is good, or do we want what is easy? Do we buy a Dodge Neon because that is all the dealer has in stock, even though we have the budget for a Viper and have had our hearts set on it?

Yes, I understand the frustration of not having it readily available locally. I don't understand giving up what we really wanted over a few days shipping.

Great Pentax gear is never all that far away and it is always worth the wait.
05-31-2007, 12:14 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryML Quote
Nelson's Photo Supply on India Street in Little Italy has a selection of Pentax equipment, including a selection of lenses. I walked into the store and walked out with a Pentax DA 12-24 f4 just about 2 weeks ago. Calumet Photo in Escondido also has a selection of Pentax equipment. I believe that George's in North Park also carries Pentax, but I haven't been in that store for a long time.

It is true that most stores have a more extensive selection of other brands, and big box stores and shopping mall chains will have little Pentax stuff. But there are stores in San Diego that do carry Pentax gear. And if you and I shop there, then they will be inclined to carrry more Pentax gear.
I use to shop at Nelson's about a year ago, but they NEVER had Pentax gear. I asked them if they would start carrying it at any time and they said no cause it wasn't a popular brand (not enough interest for them to carry). They had old manual lenses, but I don't have time to sit and fight with a manual lens while at a sporting event. Georges carries some stuff, but if you recall in my post I said "lens of my choice". They carry the "typical" lenses. I can't walk in there and walk out with a 18-50, 24-70, or 28-80 f/2.8 lens. But if I want Canon or Nikon, it's there. They rent all types of Canon & Nikon gear too, but no Pentax (at least not since the last time I checked).

05-31-2007, 01:30 AM   #39
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Ok, this place stocks the most official pentax glass out of any of the australian stores that i have looked over.

Thats still only 7 lenses followed up by a hand full of 3rd party lenses.

Now i always keep hearing how pentax were the kings of the film slr industry and that they have been at it the longest, but is it too much for me to think that they should then have a larger lineup of decent AF lenses than they do. It pains me to know that the few FA* lenses that are available second hand are so expensive and that there are people who own them but dont use them, especially when there are tons of people out there who would use them every day.


And like Mr CJ says, being able to use all of these old plentiful manual lenses is fine and all, but try shooting with one at a sporting event or in a photo journalistic situation. Ive tried and its just not fast enough.
05-31-2007, 04:24 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
Pease tell me that we are not silly enough to blame a manufacturer for the inadequacies of local retailers.
You don't think manufacturers have anything to do with it? I assure you they do. There's a reason the local shops not only prefer to carry certain brands but like to push particular ones over others. Oh, sure, some of them really are photo enthusiasts with well-considered advice, but most salespeople base their advice on something a little orthogonal to the actual quality or suitability of a particular piece of equipment.
05-31-2007, 06:46 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
You don't think manufacturers have anything to do with it? I assure you they do. There's a reason the local shops not only prefer to carry certain brands but like to push particular ones over others. Oh, sure, some of them really are photo enthusiasts with well-considered advice, but most salespeople base their advice on something a little orthogonal to the actual quality or suitability of a particular piece of equipment.
Actually sales people are only motivated by sales and commissions. I know, I have been one. At a camera store even. Nikon and Canon offer the least sales incentives and have the narrowest profit margins. Pentax has a better profit margin and offers sales spiffs directly to sales people. I got my FA* 85 f1.4 for free! My MZ-S for free! A Sony Playstation 2 and some furniture from Pentax, for free!

One Christmas I got so much Pentax spiff money that I quadrupled my normal commission check and doubled my income for the month. Most of the other sales people were Nikon shooters, but they sold mostly Pentax. They pushed the Pentax. Why? Because they were sales people and sales are driven by commissions. Free stuff and even cash.

Pentax does not like to deal with big department stores. They prefer to work with camera stores. They go out of their way to make their product a great one to carry. Camera stores that don't want to carry it are being foolish. Don't blame Pentax. They want to be in those camera stores.
05-31-2007, 07:27 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr CJ Quote
I use to shop at Nelson's about a year ago, but they NEVER had Pentax gear. I asked them if they would start carrying it at any time and they said no cause it wasn't a popular brand (not enough interest for them to carry). They had old manual lenses, but I don't have time to sit and fight with a manual lens while at a sporting event. Georges carries some stuff, but if you recall in my post I said "lens of my choice". They carry the "typical" lenses. I can't walk in there and walk out with a 18-50, 24-70, or 28-80 f/2.8 lens. But if I want Canon or Nikon, it's there. They rent all types of Canon & Nikon gear too, but no Pentax (at least not since the last time I checked).
It's true that Nelson's had no Pentax gear a year ago. They told me that they couldn't get any merchandise from the supplier. But now they carry Pentax and seem to be doing well with the line. With many local camera stores going out of business, I try to support the local stores (Nelson's and Calumet) when I can. I do buy from on-line stores (B&H and Adorama) if there is a huge price difference or to get things I can't get locally, but I do try to help the local businesses.
05-31-2007, 07:30 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by -spam- Quote
He wasnt saying that he was disappointed with the k100d, he was saying that most of his decision is based on the lack of decent pentax glass where he lives. And im in the same situation. Why make a commitment on a camera system when there is only a handful of decent lenses available close by.
I think that works both ways though, as a previous poster stated is the convenience factor such a big deal that we will "settle" for another brand? I completely understand the lack thereof in regards to the availability of lenses from local retailers but there's an abundance of options online as well (yes, most Pentax lenses are special order and yes, there are a number of good lenses that aren't made available just yet).

I guess for some it is loyalty to make the commitment, for others there is significant financial benefits to the matter (not having to pay for VR or IS in lenses is a huge benefit in my eyes with the SR built into the Pentax body). For me I'm more about the quality, even though the lens choices are sparse I am still comfortable with the K100D and confident in future lens availability. As for the convenience factor, I don't mind having to custom order but then again, I'm also the guy who drives 20km's out of the city just so he can top his car up with 94 octane to keep a turbo happy

To each their own and again, I wish the OP the best of luck in his decision.
05-31-2007, 07:34 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
Pentax does not like to deal with big department stores. They prefer to work with camera stores. They go out of their way to make their product a great one to carry. Camera stores that don't want to carry it are being foolish. Don't blame Pentax. They want to be in those camera stores.
Interesting to hear -- it's the exact opposite from what I was told by someone around here. (Here = locally, not this forum.)
05-31-2007, 07:38 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
Actually sales people are only motivated by sales and commissions. I know, I have been one. At a camera store even. Nikon and Canon offer the least sales incentives and have the narrowest profit margins. Pentax has a better profit margin and offers sales spiffs directly to sales people. I got my FA* 85 f1.4 for free! My MZ-S for free! A Sony Playstation 2 and some furniture from Pentax, for free!

One Christmas I got so much Pentax spiff money that I quadrupled my normal commission check and doubled my income for the month. Most of the other sales people were Nikon shooters, but they sold mostly Pentax. They pushed the Pentax. Why? Because they were sales people and sales are driven by commissions. Free stuff and even cash.

Pentax does not like to deal with big department stores. They prefer to work with camera stores. They go out of their way to make their product a great one to carry. Camera stores that don't want to carry it are being foolish. Don't blame Pentax. They want to be in those camera stores.
Pentax still has a lot to do with it. Instead of making 1000 copies of a lens that is in high demand, flood the market with it. Thant's how the other companies do it, why shouldn't they? The more lenses available to sell, the more they will profit. Quit playing the "supply & demand" game. Satisfy your customers, give them what they want/need! That is why Canon & Nikon are so popular. Whatever a Canon/Nikon shooter needs, there is a store with it. At the moment I am literally rocking back & forth with the notion of buying a Canon/Nikon just cause my lens availability would be better. The only reason I haven't already is because I would take a nice hit just replacing the lenses I have now to cover the focal ranges that I use. Don't get me wrong, I love my K10D! It is a very nice camera and delivers awesome IQ. But Pentax just can't "supply" my demand for what I need. I shouldn't have to pay $2000 for a lens just because it's in short supply.
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