K-7 new firmware ?

Krg · 10-18-2009, 06:22 AM

Now in Paris the "Salon de la Photo", it runs a rumor of new firmware for the K-7 (noise reduction ?)...
Supposed date October 20 ?

bymy141 · 10-18-2009, 07:11 AM

I guess we will have to wait till tuesday and find out.

jgredline · 10-18-2009, 01:05 PM

Well, Pentax does need to do something about the noise from the K-7

robgo2 · 10-18-2009, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Well, Pentax does need to do something about the noise from the K-7

Why is that? According to dpreview, both the K-7 and the K20D have noise that is every bit as good as that of the D300 and the 50D.

Rob

PolishMike · 10-18-2009, 02:16 PM

I really do not know how it came to be that the K-7 is somehow considered to have really bad high-ISO performance. It's strange to say the least.

jgredline · 10-18-2009, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by robgo2

Why is that? According to dpreview, both the K-7 and the K20D have noise that is every bit as good as that of the D300 and the 50D.

Rob

I only know what I see what my eyes and also what I have read from MANY owners that have both the K20D and the K-7. Many K-7 owners including myself are wondering if the K-X will be an improvement over the K-7 as far as noise goes and a yes seems to be the consensus... Now I am guessing you have both the K20D and the K-7 and have not seen this problem. But me, who shoots at ISO levels between 500-800 iso 90% of the time, I notice this. I will not use my K-7 past 1000 ISO yet, I do not think twice about ISO1600- to even 3200 on my K20DS'...I thought my K-7 was faulty until I tried another one at the Pentax Demo show down here in L.A; and even the Pentax Rep admitted that the K20D was better here...Now I do not shoot RAW and all the K-7 excuses I hear say you need to shoot RAW and do PP..That is why..Well maybe so, but why do my other Pentax DSLR's produce better results?

Psynema · 10-18-2009, 03:57 PM

the lower end K-x looked amazing at 3200 considering it's a consumer DSLR.

There's quite a few threads and articles online stating on the K-7 actually takes better pics than the Canon 7D (although video is another story) but the 7D is better at higher ISOs.

The samples I saw the K-7 was noticeably better without pixel peeping.

PolishMike · 10-18-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Now I do not shoot RAW and all the K-7 excuses I hear say..That is why..Well maybe so, but why do my other Pentax DSLR's produce better results?

The advantages of RAW for low light or high contrast scenes are pretty huge. If you care about noise at all, then RAW data + a properly calibrated and fine-tuned noise reduction tool will give you much, much better results with any camera. Why would you not shoot RAW? It's like throwing away film negatives - you irretrievably lose very useful data.

The K-7's JPEG noise reduction might be designed for the user to then apply their own NR, or maybe it's just not that great - this is a disadvantage, for sure, but I personally would not be put off by a camera which did not produce JPEGS at all. Most everyone who says the K-7 is noisy is talking about the JPEG engine and not the performance of the sensor - these are two very different issues.

dlacouture · 10-19-2009, 12:00 AM

Well, I had the K10, k20 and K7, and noise handling was really improved on the k7, when using RAW. No more purple stripes on the top and bottom, like the k20, meaning that 3200 is really good for small prints...

But, from the little I saw, the JPEG engine has indeed a lighter touch on the noise reduction part than the k20 (who was already pretty conservative then)... So maybe that's what the firmware will improve...

knoxploration · 10-19-2009, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

Many K-7 owners including myself are wondering if the K-X will be an improvement over the K-7 as far as noise goes and a yes seems to be the consensus...

There would be something significantly wrong if the K-x *didn't* have better high ISO performance. You're talking about two cameras with identical sensor size, of near-identical age. Of course the one with lower sensor resolution will have lower image noise at like sensitivities - it has larger pixels that collect more light (signal) against the background noise levels.

Is there a staggering difference between the noise levels of the two cameras? Not really. And frankly, given the price of the K-x, if the modicum of improvement in noise / low light performance is important to you, it'd make sense to just buy one as a second body that shares all your existing accessories.

jgredline · 10-19-2009, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by knoxploration

There would be something significantly wrong if the K-x *didn't* have better high ISO performance. You're talking about two cameras with identical sensor size, of near-identical age. Of course the one with lower sensor resolution will have lower image noise at like sensitivities - it has larger pixels that collect more light (signal) against the background noise levels.

Is there a staggering difference between the noise levels of the two cameras? Not really. And frankly, given the price of the K-x, if the modicum of improvement in noise / low light performance is important to you, it'd make sense to just buy one as a second body that shares all your existing accessories.

I actually fixed my noise problem by purchasing a Nikon D700, so personally speaking, I am ok. But this I know. I use my K20D at ISO 3200-6400 and get what would be usuable for me images and the the K-7 can't touch it. Like I said before. I am sure RAW fixes it, but I prefer not to spend my time in PP.

Sew-Classic · 10-19-2009, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

I actually fixed my noise problem by purchasing a Nikon D700

Isn't the D700 about twice the price of the K-7 and about 1 1/2 times the size? As nice as it would be for the K-7 (or any APS-C camera for that mater) to match the performance of the D700, I wouldn't expect it.

The D700 is a nice piece of equipment- I'm jealous

PolishMike · 10-19-2009, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Sew-Classic

Isn't the D700 about twice the price of the K-7 and about 1 1/2 times the size? As nice as it would be for the K-7 (or any APS-C camera for that mater) to match the performance of the D700, I wouldn't expect it.

The D700 is a nice piece of equipment- I'm jealous

Yeah, as much as I would love to be able to afford a full-frame camera and lenses to go with it, the size and weight are actually becoming prohibitive at this point. I can barely carry my K-7 and 3-4 lenses plus tripod on extended hikes. This is on day trips, I'm not sure how I'll manage when I have to carry trekking gear as well. The extra 1-2kg and space that a full frame setup would imply might just prove too much.

jgredline · 10-19-2009, 12:44 PM

Yep, The weight and size is a killer. Since I do mostly street shooting and often times my walks vary from 2 miles to about 5 on average. So size and weight becomes very important to me. When I bought the D700, It was not for street shooting as I knew it was to big. Which is why I am bugged by the noise of the K-7.
For street shooting i use 2 basic set ups. My K20D with no grip and a Sigma 24mm prime or the K-7 with grip with Tamron 17-35...I carry no spare lenses, batteries or anything else. I did take my D700 with grip out last week on an evening street shoot with the Nikor 12-24F/2.8 and walked about 2-3 miles... When I got home, I felt like I walked about 10 miles....The images though where stunning.

r0ckstarr · 10-19-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Krg

Now in Paris the "Salon de la Photo", it runs a rumor of new firmware for the K-7 (noise reduction ?)...
Supposed date October 20 ?

Thanks for posting this. I will keep my eyes open for it. Anything over 800ISO on my K7 and the images look like crap IMO. Turn on NR and I lose detail and sharpness.

10-18-2009, 06:22 AM	#1
Krg New Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 14	K-7 new firmware ? Now in Paris the "Salon de la Photo", it runs a rumor of new firmware for the K-7 (noise reduction ?)... Supposed date October 20 ?

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10-18-2009, 07:11 AM	#2
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	I guess we will have to wait till tuesday and find out.

10-18-2009, 01:05 PM	#3
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Well, Pentax does need to do something about the noise from the K-7

10-18-2009, 01:38 PM	#4
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by jgredline Well, Pentax does need to do something about the noise from the K-7 Why is that? According to dpreview, both the K-7 and the K20D have noise that is every bit as good as that of the D300 and the 50D. Rob

10-18-2009, 02:16 PM	#5
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	I really do not know how it came to be that the K-7 is somehow considered to have really bad high-ISO performance. It's strange to say the least.

10-18-2009, 03:57 PM	#6
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by robgo2 Why is that? According to dpreview, both the K-7 and the K20D have noise that is every bit as good as that of the D300 and the 50D. Rob I only know what I see what my eyes and also what I have read from MANY owners that have both the K20D and the K-7. Many K-7 owners including myself are wondering if the K-X will be an improvement over the K-7 as far as noise goes and a yes seems to be the consensus... Now I am guessing you have both the K20D and the K-7 and have not seen this problem. But me, who shoots at ISO levels between 500-800 iso 90% of the time, I notice this. I will not use my K-7 past 1000 ISO yet, I do not think twice about ISO1600- to even 3200 on my K20DS'...I thought my K-7 was faulty until I tried another one at the Pentax Demo show down here in L.A; and even the Pentax Rep admitted that the K20D was better here...Now I do not shoot RAW and all the K-7 excuses I hear say you need to shoot RAW and do PP..That is why..Well maybe so, but why do my other Pentax DSLR's produce better results?

10-18-2009, 03:57 PM	#7
Psynema Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 136	the lower end K-x looked amazing at 3200 considering it's a consumer DSLR. There's quite a few threads and articles online stating on the K-7 actually takes better pics than the Canon 7D (although video is another story) but the 7D is better at higher ISOs. The samples I saw the K-7 was noticeably better without pixel peeping.

10-18-2009, 04:14 PM	#8
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	Originally posted by jgredline Now I do not shoot RAW and all the K-7 excuses I hear say..That is why..Well maybe so, but why do my other Pentax DSLR's produce better results? The advantages of RAW for low light or high contrast scenes are pretty huge. If you care about noise at all, then RAW data + a properly calibrated and fine-tuned noise reduction tool will give you much, much better results with any camera. Why would you not shoot RAW? It's like throwing away film negatives - you irretrievably lose very useful data. The K-7's JPEG noise reduction might be designed for the user to then apply their own NR, or maybe it's just not that great - this is a disadvantage, for sure, but I personally would not be put off by a camera which did not produce JPEGS at all. Most everyone who says the K-7 is noisy is talking about the JPEG engine and not the performance of the sensor - these are two very different issues.

10-19-2009, 12:00 AM	#9
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Well, I had the K10, k20 and K7, and noise handling was really improved on the k7, when using RAW. No more purple stripes on the top and bottom, like the k20, meaning that 3200 is really good for small prints... But, from the little I saw, the JPEG engine has indeed a lighter touch on the noise reduction part than the k20 (who was already pretty conservative then)... So maybe that's what the firmware will improve...

10-19-2009, 12:11 AM	#10
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	Originally posted by jgredline Many K-7 owners including myself are wondering if the K-X will be an improvement over the K-7 as far as noise goes and a yes seems to be the consensus... There would be something significantly wrong if the K-x didn't have better high ISO performance. You're talking about two cameras with identical sensor size, of near-identical age. Of course the one with lower sensor resolution will have lower image noise at like sensitivities - it has larger pixels that collect more light (signal) against the background noise levels. Is there a staggering difference between the noise levels of the two cameras? Not really. And frankly, given the price of the K-x, if the modicum of improvement in noise / low light performance is important to you, it'd make sense to just buy one as a second body that shares all your existing accessories.

10-19-2009, 08:30 AM	#11
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by knoxploration There would be something significantly wrong if the K-x didn't have better high ISO performance. You're talking about two cameras with identical sensor size, of near-identical age. Of course the one with lower sensor resolution will have lower image noise at like sensitivities - it has larger pixels that collect more light (signal) against the background noise levels. Is there a staggering difference between the noise levels of the two cameras? Not really. And frankly, given the price of the K-x, if the modicum of improvement in noise / low light performance is important to you, it'd make sense to just buy one as a second body that shares all your existing accessories. I actually fixed my noise problem by purchasing a Nikon D700, so personally speaking, I am ok. But this I know. I use my K20D at ISO 3200-6400 and get what would be usuable for me images and the the K-7 can't touch it. Like I said before. I am sure RAW fixes it, but I prefer not to spend my time in PP.

10-19-2009, 12:18 PM	#12
Sew-Classic Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ohio, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 238	Originally posted by jgredline I actually fixed my noise problem by purchasing a Nikon D700 Isn't the D700 about twice the price of the K-7 and about 1 1/2 times the size? As nice as it would be for the K-7 (or any APS-C camera for that mater) to match the performance of the D700, I wouldn't expect it. The D700 is a nice piece of equipment- I'm jealous

10-19-2009, 12:26 PM	#13
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	Originally posted by Sew-Classic Isn't the D700 about twice the price of the K-7 and about 1 1/2 times the size? As nice as it would be for the K-7 (or any APS-C camera for that mater) to match the performance of the D700, I wouldn't expect it. The D700 is a nice piece of equipment- I'm jealous Yeah, as much as I would love to be able to afford a full-frame camera and lenses to go with it, the size and weight are actually becoming prohibitive at this point. I can barely carry my K-7 and 3-4 lenses plus tripod on extended hikes. This is on day trips, I'm not sure how I'll manage when I have to carry trekking gear as well. The extra 1-2kg and space that a full frame setup would imply might just prove too much.

10-19-2009, 12:44 PM	#14
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Yep, The weight and size is a killer. Since I do mostly street shooting and often times my walks vary from 2 miles to about 5 on average. So size and weight becomes very important to me. When I bought the D700, It was not for street shooting as I knew it was to big. Which is why I am bugged by the noise of the K-7. For street shooting i use 2 basic set ups. My K20D with no grip and a Sigma 24mm prime or the K-7 with grip with Tamron 17-35...I carry no spare lenses, batteries or anything else. I did take my D700 with grip out last week on an evening street shoot with the Nikor 12-24F/2.8 and walked about 2-3 miles... When I got home, I felt like I walked about 10 miles....The images though where stunning.

10-19-2009, 12:45 PM	#15
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	Originally posted by Krg Now in Paris the "Salon de la Photo", it runs a rumor of new firmware for the K-7 (noise reduction ?)... Supposed date October 20 ? Thanks for posting this. I will keep my eyes open for it. Anything over 800ISO on my K7 and the images look like crap IMO. Turn on NR and I lose detail and sharpness.