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10-26-2009, 09:05 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
... Not to mention that both Pentax Canada and USA do NOT authorize selling the K-x body without the kit lens. Any item sold as such is officially grey market. Compared to Nikon especially, Pentax is very rigid. That, too, kills sales. People like options.
Wow. The official distributor in Australia has no problem with retailers selling K-x body only!

This is a typical authorised retailer listing for the K-x in Australia:

QuoteQuote:
The Pentax K-x is available in the following lens kits:
Body only $689
with Pentax 18-55mm $739
with Pentax 18-55 & 50-200mm $849
with Sigma 17-70mm $899
with Sigma 18-200mm $959
with Pentax 16-45mm $1019
with Pentax 18-250mm $1239
with Pentax 17-70 $1349.
Pentax K-x DSLR Camera

Choice is good.

10-26-2009, 09:06 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Depends on what the competitors are doing, not your opinion. If they do it and you do not (and they are doing it), you lose sales and market share.
My optinion may not count (which is true) - but show me the Nikon or Canon entry level DSLR with adjustable AF or the CaNi entry level buyers who add fast, expensive L-lenses for example. It is a diminutive minority.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Also, generalizing about what "95%" of buyers will and will not do is silly and a sales-killer.
Generalization is the only way, to get a feel for the market. It is the basic way for planning.

Those few "fringe buyers" are only worth (from the perspective of sales) as multiplicators or positive examples. That is the simple reason, why Nikon and Canon invest so heavily in Professional equipment. - Oh, and that is not my "opinion", but official information provided by both on several occasions. Hey, we all know that, aynway.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Pentax absolutely MUST have more than 5% of K-x buyers buy up and add lenses. Margins on lenses are probably around 20%, whereas on bodies, less than half that. That's the whole point of mid-range glass like the 16-45 and 17-70, not to mention the bulk of the third party market.
You are right about the higher margin and the importance of selling glass. Nevertheless: simply ask any dealer who still stocks Pentax about the reality. I do, because I am working in the industry.

Also, Pentax did and does a lot to discourage lens buyers. How long was the announcement time of the 60-250? 2 years or so. How many people gave up on Pentax or simply bought a Sigma alternative. How long have we seen the announcement of the SDM tc? How long for anything longer than the 300mm? Pentax does not even announce a 80-400mm zoom (or the like), which is a very polular range, too.

If my observation is right and those dealer contacts I have, seem to proof that, than not only is Pentax still not securely back into the game and most of the problems are completely home made.


QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
However, there's no body mid-range from Pentax. It's like a great, big hole.
The K20 would count, I think, as a typical midrange modell. So if this going off the list, we'll get a replacement for that. The K7 is something like an upper idrange modell, also, not really a pro modell.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Not to mention that both Pentax Canada and USA do NOT authorize selling the K-x body without the kit lens. Any item sold as such is officially grey market. Compared to Nikon especially, Pentax is very rigid. That, too, kills sales. People like options.
I don't know about Pentax sales policies in the Americas. Obviously (as somebody else mentioned) this is not their priority market. Reputation and brand awareness seem to be much higher in Japan (the availability of the multi-coloured camera modells, additional accessories and not the least the limiation of the announced(sic) 645D only for the Japanese market, seem really enough proof for that) and Europe. But I agree, that in general Pentax policies seem to kill their own market. Service levels (as I just experience myself) tumbled down into a black hole and their re-building of the dealer channel is way too slow and too restrictive. The main problem, though are there still existing empty spaces in the lens line-up, the too small choice of bodies and generally the way too slow development cycle.

You say, People like options". That is very true. But something Pentax seems to have forgotten about long time ago.

Ben
10-26-2009, 02:40 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If Pentax didn't change their scheme, it should be straightforward to get into the AF adjust menu of a K-x. There is a method that works for all previous Pentax DSLRs.
Someone figured out which specific number and button combination to use for the K-x.
10-26-2009, 03:43 PM   #79
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I can't help but see things like AF adjustment as freebies! Even on the dear oold k100d you could enter debug and adjust the AF. All they need to do is make a menu for it in the normal menu system and it's done. It would probably take of their programers 2hrs. It's there already but it's hidden.

Then again, maybe this is best on an entry level camera. Leave the tinkering to the people who
a) like to tinker and accept they they will make errors
b) that know what they are doing

Maybe making the debug menu accessible not an accident.

mike

10-26-2009, 09:26 PM   #80
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How to get into DEBUG mode for K-x, firmware 1.0:

1) create file MODSET.492 with
[OPEN_DEBUG_MENU]

line must end with CR/LF (endline char in windows)

2) turn on the camera while holding +- (Av) button

3) congratulations, you are in debug menu
10-27-2009, 04:05 AM   #81
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Just to throw my two cents about auto focus adjustment -- I have no idea if the issue is the lens or the camera, but a couple of my lenses (DA 70 and 16-50) have needed small adjustments. The rest of my lenses were OK. Now, my understanding with sending your lens in for calibration, is that Pentax would like you to send your camera body as well. To me, doing a small adjustment on a couple of lenses is a lot better option. Sure, it may be a work around, but as long as my focus is spot-on, I could care less.
10-27-2009, 09:32 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
How to get into DEBUG mode for K-x, firmware 1.0:

1) create file MODSET.492 with
[OPEN_DEBUG_MENU]

line must end with CR/LF (endline char in windows)

2) turn on the camera while holding +- (Av) button

3) congratulations, you are in debug menu
Ogl, you are awesome! (...at copy and pasting)
10-27-2009, 12:17 PM   #83
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What features does the debug menu enable?

10-27-2009, 12:21 PM   #84
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The main one is global AF correction (not per lens). From what I remember, it is pretty easy to turn debug menu on and but still a little inconvenient to do it every lens change to imitate the K20D and K-7. Apparently there is ability to write scripts so maybe the timelapse limit can be bypassed or something.

Rawr, have you tested NiMH yet? if so, post here:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/77835-k-x-owners-n...ts-please.html

In other news, one place has told me they are expecting the white K-x kit in MID-NOV.. argh! Still waiting to hear back from others.
10-28-2009, 05:55 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Agree with that - many people are unhappy they can't swap the 18-55 out for a 16-45 or 17-70 as an option

As for grey market - does that mean they won't warranty places like Adorama that sell body only options or something?
I got the grey market reference straight from Pentax Canada's rep. She also stated that it was the same in the USA (but perhaps Ned could clarify).

With the kit lens, the lack of lens hood, move from metal to plastic mount, etc. plus its mandatory inclusion, all point to cost-cutting production and distribution. This is likely due to offsetting the difficulties in selling a varied colour lineup.

With grey market it means your warranty goes back to the source country. If your system was imported from Hong Kong, it may need to be sent back there. However, the Pentax international warranty should cover all 1 year, local fixes on the body. It's the lenses where things are suspect. All of this is Pentax's call as local warranty laws usually only cover items sold by local or equivalent-to-local (Amazon for example) retailers. If you buy from grey market, non-approved, non-"local" retailers, then Pentax gets to choose which level of service you are entitled to. Every jurisdiction (state, province) is different.

One interesting point with the K-x is that a warrantor (even international) has the right to replace rather than repair. If all units are paired with kit lenses, and they seek a full product exchange, and you have no kit lens......Admittedly this is rare, but it is a known technique to curtail grey market activity. Apple, for example, used to insist that all replacement iPods be returned with the original ear buds. Again, for each brand, for each product, for each customer, it can be a risk management judgment call by the company offering the warranty.

Many jurisdictions have indemnification laws regarding manufacturer warranties. Read them once and be informed for life; worth the effort in a consumer society.

At least Pentax is NOT Nikon!
10-28-2009, 01:14 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
With the kit lens, the lack of lens hood, move from metal to plastic mount, etc. plus its mandatory inclusion, all point to cost-cutting production and distribution. This is likely due to offsetting the difficulties in selling a varied colour lineup.
Of course it's cost cutting - margin on these camera is incredibly small as it is, so they'll cut wherever they feel they can get away with. But it's nonsense to suggest that this is simply offsetting the cost of doing color.
10-28-2009, 02:54 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Of course it's cost cutting - margin on these camera is incredibly small as it is, so they'll cut wherever they feel they can get away with. But it's nonsense to suggest that this is simply offsetting the cost of doing color.
+1 on this.
10-28-2009, 02:58 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Of course it's cost cutting - margin on these camera is incredibly small as it is, so they'll cut wherever they feel they can get away with. But it's nonsense to suggest that this is simply offsetting the cost of doing color.
Echo Echo Echo Echo.

Weren't the DA L lenses introduced with the K-m anyways? Kind of ends Aristophanes argument pretty quick...

Wait, I have a better theory regarding the introduction of the DA L versions - I just googled them, and they were officially announced the same time as the 60-250mm F4 - so, they really just needed the extra plastic from the kit lens hoods to make hoods for the 60-250mm. That is my argument and I am sticking with it (logic be damned - happens alot around here!)
10-28-2009, 03:42 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
Echo Echo Echo Echo.

Weren't the DA L lenses introduced with the K-m anyways? Kind of ends Aristophanes argument pretty quick...
It would if he'd get the point that the K-x is a replacement for the K-m and not the K200D, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
10-28-2009, 06:33 PM   #90
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Pentax is pretty good at taking care of grey market items. I have purchased several items from Canada (I live in the US) and have them taken care of under international warranty. The problem that you run into if you live in Canada is that the international warranty is only one year, not the two years that you normally get up there. Here in the US, we only get one year of warranty standard anyway, so it isn't any big deal.

The Km/kx are entry level cameras. The goal was to shoe horn as much into the km's package as they could and still keep the cost down. The DA-L 55-300 (with plastic mount and no quick shift) is the only new lens for this package. The other two were already available with the Km/2000. It's not a big deal. The lens is cheap and if you don't like the plastic mount, sell it and get a metal mount kit lens. I'm sure it would bring 30 or 40 dollars on e bay.
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