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View Poll Results: If you had to pick today, which camera would you get?
K7 33968.48%
K-x 15631.52%
Voters: 495. You may not vote on this poll

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01-05-2010, 04:06 AM   #121
Igilligan
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The K7 is a real machine... a photographers camera.

The K-x is an entry level camera. It has some decent entry level features and is missing some obvious ones. It is a one trick pony...


But what a cool trick!!! ISO 12800



01-05-2010, 07:33 AM   #122
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Igillian,

You said that you would keep your K20D and get a K-x. I'm just wondering, when it comes to HIGH and LOW ISO, how are those two cameras different? I know that K-x is good in High ISO, but when it comes to low ISO, how are they different?

Thanks.
01-05-2010, 09:57 AM   #123
Igilligan
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I am all about feelings today

Not quite sure I have shot enough with the K-x yet to be sure (plus my K20 is still in the shop so no side by side...
But this is just a hunch. For me it feels a little like the difference between two different 50mm lenses. With many lenses the difference in the 'look' comes down to a 'feel' if that makes any sense at all.
At base ISO The K20 feels a little warmer to me, not color necessarily, just a tad more inviting... (just a second... my lower Brow Chakra is itching) I may need to spend some time dialing in the K-x, but at low ISO's it still has it's own 'feel'
K-x at ISO 200 + Nikkor 105 2.5


I feel like a crazy Marin County Hippie...

At High ISO the difference is a lot easier to see and to put into words... As far as I am concerned the K-x is in a different league... I am seeing a lot of the "oh but look what my K7 can do" posts poppin up. But with the K20 I always tried to shoot at the Lowest ISO possible, because I always could see the klunky/color blob noise starting up pretty early. I shoot a lot of close in faces so I may be hypercritical of Noise and the NR programs like noise ninja/s and the like. But my K20 tended to stay between ISO 100-400.

With the Kx, whatever magic tweaks they did to that sensor/jpeg engine really do work. It has been said of every new Pentax camera since I have been here "I like the way this one deals with the noise better" "it is a finer grain, almost like film"! Well up until now that has been mostly BS... and the steps in better noise has been baby steps at best. With this sensor/cam it seems more a leap!
ISO 6400



ISO 3200



I will shoot some more with the Helios, since is the lens I am most familiar with on the K20... And let you know how my Heart Chakra feels when I am thru.
But saying that, it is also like two 50mm lenses in that I could probably post the side by sides of the K20 vs K-x and most would not see any real difference.

My Root Chakra is glad I could clear that up for you all~ now I need to go meditate

Last edited by Igilligan; 01-05-2010 at 10:20 AM.
01-05-2010, 10:22 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Not quite sure I have shot enough with the K-x yet to be sure (plus my K20 is still in the shop so no side by side...
But this is just a hunch. For me it feels a little like the difference between two different 50mm lenses. With many lenses the difference in the 'look' comes down to a 'feel' if that makes any sense at all.
At base ISO The K20 feels a little warmer to me, not color necessarily, just a tad more inviting... (just a second... my lower Brow Chakra is itching) I may need to spend some time dialing in the K-x, but at low ISO's it still has it's own 'feel'

[images clipped]

I feel like a crazy Marin County Hippie...

At High ISO the difference is a lot easier to see and to put into words... As far as I am concerned the K-x is in a different league... I am seeing a lot of the "oh but look what my K7 can do" posts poppin up. But with the K20 I always tried to shoot at the Lowest ISO possible, because I always could see the klunky/color blob noise starting up pretty early. I shoot a lot of close in faces so I may be hypercritical of Noise and the NR programs like noise ninja/s and the like. But my K20 tended to stay between ISO 100-400.

With the Kx, whatever magic tweaks they did to that sensor/jpeg engine really do work. It has been said of every new Pentax camera since I have been here "I like the way this one deals with the noise better" "it is a finer grain, almost like film"! Well up until now that has been mostly BS... and the steps in better noise has been baby steps at best. With this sensor/cam it seems more a leap!
I have tried K200D, k-m and K20D. The K10D/K-m/K200D definitely have chunkier noise when compared to K20D.

QuoteQuote:
[image clipped]

I will shoot some more with the Helios, since is the lens I am most familiar with on the K20... And let you know how my Heart Chakra feels when I am thru.
But saying that, it is also like two 50mm lenses in that I could probably post the side by sides of the K20 vs K-x and most would not see any real difference.

My Root Chakra is glad I could clear that up for you all~ haha
You're convincing me to buy the k-7x--I can't abide k-m/k-x's silver stripe.

01-05-2010, 10:33 AM   #125
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It's amazing to me how you can get a K-x for such a low price and the camera is basicly almost perfect.
01-05-2010, 10:40 AM   #126
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K7 only choice after K10

My girlfriend got a Kx yesterday, based on a strong recommendation by me, as I read how great the sensor was and debated between it and the K7 to 'assist' my K10 (I could never give it up entirely).

Anyway, I got to play around with it, and was really excited to get it in my hands. That excitement dissipated somewhat after trying to get the camera to turn on - it was running firmware 1.00, and needless to say anything short of a pair of brand new lithium batteries would get it running. Then I started playing with the new control/menu layout and I would say I just do not like it.

Not that I wouldn't warm to it, but I never knew how much I would miss the front control wheel, for handling aperature in manual mode (you must press a +- button to get there). I also really do not like the loss of direct AF point control, instead having to plress OK before getting to the menu. I never had a problem using the function button to get ahold of the flash, iso, fire, and WB controls, as once I have those set I usually do not go back to them, but would constantly go to AF controls. I guess I also like the ability to go center or auto AF with a swtich not a button into the menu.

While some comments about sensor quality compared to the Kx make me hesitate on selecting a K7, if I had to choose between the two, the K7 wins (but would prefer it with the control layout of my beloved K10)
01-05-2010, 11:24 AM   #127
Igilligan
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
I have tried K200D, k-m and K20D. The K10D/K-m/K200D definitely have chunkier noise when compared to K20D.



You're convincing me to buy the k-7x--I can't abide k-m/k-x's silver stripe.
If my photos can convince you to buy the K7, my work is done here...

And thanks... I had never even noticed the silver stripe... I hate it now! Looks like the top will just pop off, like a can of cheap soup. That's it, this sucker is going back to Amazon. What were thinkin'? Silver lining?

QuoteOriginally posted by Daedbird Quote
My girlfriend got a Kx yesterday, based on a strong recommendation by me, as I read how great the sensor was and debated between it and the K7 to 'assist' my K10 (I could never give it up entirely).

Anyway, I got to play around with it, and was really excited to get it in my hands. That excitement dissipated somewhat after trying to get the camera to turn on - it was running firmware 1.00, and needless to say anything short of a pair of brand new lithium batteries would get it running. Then I started playing with the new control/menu layout and I would say I just do not like it.

Not that I wouldn't warm to it, but I never knew how much I would miss the front control wheel, for handling aperature in manual mode (you must press a +- button to get there). I also really do not like the loss of direct AF point control, instead having to plress OK before getting to the menu. I never had a problem using the function button to get ahold of the flash, iso, fire, and WB controls, as once I have those set I usually do not go back to them, but would constantly go to AF controls. I guess I also like the ability to go center or auto AF with a swtich not a button into the menu.

While some comments about sensor quality compared to the Kx make me hesitate on selecting a K7, if I had to choose between the two, the K7 wins (but would prefer it with the control layout of my beloved K10)
Well I can understand that... I miss my k20 two wheel control. And the k20s bigger camera, button layout feels more natural to my hand.
I got the Kx solely for the Hi ISO and to play with the movie mode, so for me it works, I have the k20 for everything else. But as far as the Control/Menu layout, I think the K7 is pretty much the same type of menu. But you are right, you get used to it. It does make switching back and forth tougher though.


QuoteOriginally posted by pakuchn Quote
It's amazing to me how you can get a K-x for such a low price and the camera is basicly almost perfect.
Not really perfect, but amazing for the price... It is a true entry level camera. Menu driven controls, and missing a few obvious features. But for a Newbie or an experienced photog willing to deal with it... wow! I picked up the the K-x + 18-55 + 55-300 for $650

If you just assume the 55-300 is worth $250 and the 18-55 worth $50 that = $350 for the camera... Crazy price IMHO.
01-05-2010, 11:39 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
If my photos can convince you to buy the K7, my work is done here...

And thanks... I had never even noticed the silver stripe... I hate it now! Looks like the top will just pop off, like a can of cheap soup. That's it, this sucker is going back to Amazon. What were thinkin'? Silver lining?
Heh. I actually meant I was buying the imaginary K-7x...K7's body (which lacks that darned silver stripe!!!) with K-x's sensor.

01-05-2010, 12:13 PM   #129
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I agree K-x + 18-55 + 55-300 for $650 is amazing.

Can I assume that K20D is better at low ISO and worse at ISO when compared to K-x? again, talking only about image quality.
01-10-2010, 02:46 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by rustynail925 Quote
Right now the voting percentage is approximately
K7 = 71% vs Kx = 29%

Of course most would pick K7 if money was not an issue.
It would be interesting to see if the question would go:
If you had to pick today, which camera (body only) would you pick
K7 @ $1049? or
Kx @ $599
then it would be quite a match up
Are you saying people do not know the price difference between the two?

K-7 is the prefered camera because of features.

What you are trying to say is if you only had $600 what camera would you choose.

The Kx gives great value yes... the K-7 when compared to competitors gives extra great value.

Cheers

Neil
01-10-2010, 07:48 AM   #131
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My preference is the K7 but my "ideology" is "when in doubt, buy'em both"

If you do nothing more than family at social functions and don't like/need to tweak (much) then Kx is your best choice just get a nice fast zoom, so basically for the price of a K7 you get a exceptional body and fast lenses to handle all the family outings and similar. This should last you quite a few years or if you happen to have one of those "time to get another camera" accidents.

Looks at Hin's blog but Hin is definitely a "tweaker"

Last edited by Clicker; 01-10-2010 at 07:54 AM.
01-11-2010, 11:15 PM   #132
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I can absolutely say that the K-x ISO performance does better than K-7. However over all I still love how K-7 operate in my hand. As i thought the K-7 lose to K-x only in the ISO performance.
01-12-2010, 02:12 AM   #133
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Kx - for the poor K7 quality control?

I have brooded hours over this decision. Eventually I ordered the K7 for its incredible handling, the soft shooting sound, the hi resolution and some side features. When it arrived I was most lucky: for the first time I held a real, a sophisticated camera, a great tool in my hands.

A couple of days I sent it back. The level indicator wasn't working correctly, the AF was slow and undetermined, providing > 50% errors in AF-S, causing back- as well as front-focuses at different lenses und had a tendance to underexpose one stop. When discovering all this i learnt that many users in the main German dslr forum had made the same experiences and returned their K7, some even twice. At that point my trust in Pentax quality control suffered seriously.

I have now to decide to try a 2nd K7 or to order a Kx instead. I must not repeat the pros and cons here as they are well known (missing AF control and top-display on Kx, reduced noise & dynamic Hi ISO performance of K7 etc.).

I think I will go for a Kx since it provides brighter jpgs, is less equipped (which means fewer risks of malfunctions and poor quality controls) and is just 50% the K7's price. In some way Pentax' poor quality performance which has already shown in some of my lenses (DA17-70, DA21, DA55-300) drives me away from purchasing the more expensive range of their products.
01-12-2010, 09:08 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
If my photos can convince you to buy the K7, my work is done here...

And thanks... I had never even noticed the silver stripe... I hate it now! Looks like the top will just pop off, like a can of cheap soup. That's it, this sucker is going back to Amazon. What were thinkin'? Silver lining?



Well I can understand that... I miss my k20 two wheel control. And the k20s bigger camera, button layout feels more natural to my hand.
I got the Kx solely for the Hi ISO and to play with the movie mode, so for me it works, I have the k20 for everything else. But as far as the Control/Menu layout, I think the K7 is pretty much the same type of menu. But you are right, you get used to it. It does make switching back and forth tougher though.


Not really perfect, but amazing for the price... It is a true entry level camera. Menu driven controls, and missing a few obvious features. But for a Newbie or an experienced photog willing to deal with it... wow! I picked up the the K-x + 18-55 + 55-300 for $650

If you just assume the 55-300 is worth $250 and the 18-55 worth $50 that = $350 for the camera... Crazy price IMHO.
how can pentax make any $$profit when the 55-300mm was and is routinely going for about $300 bucks, thus making the k-x a $350 dollar dslr ???
sounds nutz to me... but then again, maybe i am....
seriously, production costs must be bargain basement for pentax with the k-x manufacture...... to be able to afford to heavily discount these bundled packages through authorized retailers... and on the other hand, lest we not forget the hefty lens price increases over the last year or so............perhaps this enables pentax to 'give' the k-x away (figuratively)...
fyi... i added the k-x to my stable (k200d), the af is superior to my k200d, and with center focus set, some ev tinkering, quite satisfied so far...
bottom line, the k-x is a fine dslr, somewhat decontented compared to the k-7 to be sure, but WHAT a deal.... what say you now canikons??????????
dave m

Last edited by dcmsox2004; 01-12-2010 at 09:09 AM. Reason: error
01-12-2010, 09:24 AM   #135
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I agree with previous person.

K-X with 16-50 and 50-300 for $720.00 is AMAZING.

What a deal. And at the end, DSLR is about picture quality, and I feel that K-x can provide amazing quality. Why would someone want K-7? or get a K20D which is outstanding, just incase you need more features.
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