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10-23-2009, 12:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up.

When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ?
I am in the same position with you and I've made my mind, I'll go for K20D, because it's half of cheap K7 and more than that, K7 has a lot of issues.

Along with not completely solved problems the most important issue of K7 is very strong AA filter that makes images soft and also K7 colors washed out, comparing to K20D.

With 5.5 million sale success of K10D reason is (in my very subjective guess) weak AA filter, thats why K10D's pictures were tack sharp, Moire effect, yeah that's an issue too but I can live with that, but I can't with soft pictures.

Not to mention other K7 issues such as green line, dark area banding, higher dark side noise etc etc, new firmwares are coming almost every other week for K7.

So I will upgrade to K20D and will wait for the FF or at least better APS camera with solved issues of K7. As a strict 100 ISO guy, the only advantage of K7 is truer colors of K7, I mean lot better white balance, but with twice price, only that wouldn't worth it.

Also K200D has CCD sensor, you might miss those colors taken with good light situations with a CMOS camera.

About K-x, the pictures I've seen here and there is a disaster, softness everywhere, my guess is this is a sensor swindle from Sony to Pentax, my recommendation is it's a no-no camera regarding the IQ.

Now I am giving my K200D to my wife, I will use K20D for 1, mostly 1.5 years, if Pentax doesn't come up with a decent camera with better sharpness forcing mostly in 2 years I will abandon Pentax and will switch to Canon. But I strongly doubt it I am gonna do that because I think Pentax will see K7 doomed coupla months after christmas, and will try to come up with better camera harder and sooner.

C'mon Pentax you can do better than K7, I have the faith in you.

Forewarning: I am sick and tired of irrational, emotional, camera fanaticism here especially for K7, If I get a uncivilized response instead of a nice answer explaining why I am wrong or right, I will response to that as it deserves.

10-23-2009, 12:50 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Too expensive. Canon T1i $400 cheaper in my market. Nikon D5000 also cheaper. .
This cheaper claim doesn't make sense if you have already the required lenses for a camera system. Are you using cameras with only kit lenses Aristo? Don't you ever consider a good lens line-up for the almost every situation use? Or you are so rich that you have every single camera brand lens line-up sitting in your closet?
10-23-2009, 01:09 PM   #18
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And not only do you have to buy a whole new set of lenses, you need to get stablized versions too if you want to consider it anything but a major downgrade. The cost would be *enormous* for me to repalce my current lens collection (which only cost me a few hundred dollars) with stablized equivalents - we're talking *thousands* of dollar more, and even then I'd never get the stabilized equivalent of my 50/1.7, and I'd have to carry giant monstrosities of lenses around instead of my DA40, DA70, etc. So rather than being a cheaper upgrade, that's really a much more expensive downgrade. No thanks.

Still, I certainly agree there is room for a camera between the K-x and K-7. no idea if that will happen, or how it would be spec'ed, but no doubt there would be some market for it. Still, the K200D was not exactly a resounding success in sales.
10-23-2009, 02:12 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
About K-x, the pictures I've seen here and there is a disaster, softness everywhere, my guess is this is a sensor swindle from Sony to Pentax, my recommendation is it's a no-no camera regarding the IQ.
Disaster? That's too strong a statement. The K-x is not that bad at all. After having taken a few hundred photos with it I can see already that it easily outresolves my K200D at all resolutions and that it's dynamic range exceeds the K200D's too. I respectfully suggest you take another look at it. With a great lens in front of it I think it will deliver excellent IQ.


Last edited by rawr; 10-23-2009 at 02:21 PM.
10-23-2009, 02:24 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Disaster? That's too strong a statement. The K-x is not that bad at all. After having taken a few hundred photos with it I can see already that it easily outresolves my K200D at all resolutions and that it's dynamic range exceeds the K200D's too. I respectfully suggest you take another look at it. With a great lens in front of it I think it will deliver excellent IQ.
Good news, I would love to be wrong about K-x, only a coupla hundred shots I've seen, I will check more.
10-23-2009, 02:53 PM   #21
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I've bumped up the color setting on my K-7 and it's perfect for me. I still like the k20d so that might be your best bet cost wise (I have both). My wife has a K-m...not the same as a K-x but I don't think I would be happy with one as a primary body.

Re the batteries. I don't like the AA option for two reasons. The first is that most people are unaware how nasty they become once thrown in the garbage (presuming you're not using rechargables). The second is that the charge on a K20d/K-7 lasts forever. I've always splurged on a second battery, so I have an extra charged one on hand and it allows me to deplete the first battery fully between recharging. I throw the charger in my backpack if I am going on a trip. I've had them for Canon and Pentax from about 2001 with no issue. Expensive at first but I've saved a lot of money over the throw away AAs. Of course, you can have the best of both worlds with a K-7 and a grip.
10-23-2009, 03:18 PM   #22
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I am with you. Eventually I want a second body to go with my K200D. I do not want another battery type and charger to carry, as I would required with the K7. I like the top LCD, focus confirmation and weather sealing of the K200D so that K-X is not an option either. There is no Pentax that I want to buy right now.
10-23-2009, 03:24 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up.

The K2000 / k-m isn't it, no weather sealing, no grip ability, and same megapixels as the K200D.

The K-7 is interesting. 4.2 More megapixels, video ability, more fps. But it's a lithium-ion battery based camera, and that's a big no-no for me - this battery technology is just not reliable enough.
It does have a grip that can take AAs, but I don't want to always have the grip on.

The K-X is interesting too. It has 2.2 more megapixels, video ability, more FPS. But it has no weather sealing unlike the K200D. And it also lacks the ability to attach a grip.

When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ?

If price is an issue at all get a dirt-cheap brand new K20D. (Unless you really want video, then the K-x is a choice).

If the price of the K7 is not an issue, that's the clear choice.

I can't take seriously your criticism of li-ion batteries though. It's a mature technology, they last forever in DSLRs that only suck a little current when you actually take the shot. If in doubt, get an extra couple batteries.

10-23-2009, 03:44 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
If I get a uncivilized response instead of a nice answer explaining why I am wrong or right, I will response to that as it deserves.
Maybe it is a cultural thing, but the sentence above makes it sound like you simply posted to start a fight.

Thank you
Russell
10-23-2009, 04:04 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Russell-Evans Quote
Maybe it is a cultural thing, but the sentence above makes it sound like you simply posted to start a fight.

Thank you
Russell
Cultural? Yes, belonging fanatic behavioral culture. Probably you are not aware, whenever I tried to questioning K7, even asking simple questions about it, few K7 owners took this as an attack to their dearly K7, then I had to face some inappropriate manner, my claim was a pre-defense mechanism.
10-23-2009, 08:39 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Never heard of any of the problems you described with Li-ion.
These are real problems with LiOn batteries, nothing I made up, and not an isolated experience by any means. Read from :

Is lithium-ion the ideal battery?

Maybe these problems will be resolved some day, but they are still issues with current LiIon batteries.
10-23-2009, 08:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by res3567 Quote
If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice.
The K7 is inferior to the K200D in one important respect : you can't use it with 4 AA batteries. You have to buy and attach a battery grip in order to be able to use any AA batteries, which increases volume and weight, and then you must use 6 of them. While the battery grip is nice to have, I don't want to have it on all the time. And at the K7's price, I may not want to buy the grip at all.

The Kx does work with 4AAs, but as previously mentioning, is inferior to the K200D in the weather sealing department, and lack of battery grip connector. IMO, Pentax really missed the boat with these 2 omissions in the Kx.
10-23-2009, 08:46 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by maleek Quote
I have only one tip. Don't focus to much on megapixels. I think they are the least important factor of a camera today.
While I agree in general that MP are not crucial, I would still like to have more than 10 MP for moonshots, or for astrophotography. But the MP alone would probably not be enough to cause me to buy a new camera. That's why I listed it as the 3rd improvement I care for.
10-23-2009, 08:47 PM   #29
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Is there a store around that you can pick up a K-7 and a K-x (K-m) and try both? The K-x might feel a lot different than what you are used too....but if AAs are what you are looking for, and it costs less....it might be for you.

Edit - from the last 2 posts....you might just want to wait a little longer to see if there is a replacement for the K200. I don't know if there will be one....but it sounds like it was the right camera for you and if you're happy with it still....waiting a little longer won't hurt...

Last edited by SteveM; 10-23-2009 at 08:52 PM.
10-23-2009, 08:54 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by smc Quote
Re the batteries. I don't like the AA option for two reasons. The first is that most people are unaware how nasty they become once thrown in the garbage (presuming you're not using rechargables).
Of course one has to be using rechargeables. Alkalines AAs have fairly limited capacity. One my reasons for liking rechargeable AAs is that they can be used and shared between so many devices.

QuoteQuote:
The second is that the charge on a K20d/K-7 lasts forever.
Nothing lasts forever. How many shots have you taken on one battery ? And how many with flash ? I have taken over 1200 in daytime on one set of 4 eneloops.

QuoteQuote:
I've always splurged on a second battery, so I have an extra charged one on hand and it allows me to deplete the first battery fully between recharging.
I hope that works out for you, the limited shelf life of unused Lion batteries are well documented, if not well known.

QuoteQuote:
I throw the charger in my backpack if I am going on a trip. I've had them for Canon and Pentax from about 2001 with no issue. Expensive at first but I've saved a lot of money over the throw away AAs. Of course, you can have the best of both worlds with a K-7 and a grip.
The charger would add too much weight and volume. I would never want to carry it. And it takes time to charge anyway. I always carry spare AAs, which I can use either in my K200D, its battery grip, or my flash - all AA-powered. Only relying on a single battery technology is a big advantage. I only have to bring a single charger on trips - but in my suitcase, not backpack.
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