Upgrade path from K200D ?

madbrain · 10-22-2009, 04:23 PM

I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up.

The K2000 / k-m isn't it, no weather sealing, no grip ability, and same megapixels as the K200D.

The K-7 is interesting. 4.2 More megapixels, video ability, more fps. But it's a lithium-ion battery based camera, and that's a big no-no for me - this battery technology is just not reliable enough.
It does have a grip that can take AAs, but I don't want to always have the grip on.

The K-X is interesting too. It has 2.2 more megapixels, video ability, more FPS. But it has no weather sealing unlike the K200D. And it also lacks the ability to attach a grip.

When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ?

KungPOW · 10-22-2009, 04:58 PM

I doubt you will see a replacment to the K200D.

Pentax has never really been know for continuing a series of cameras. I don't expect they will place a camera between the K-7 and the K-x. And if they do, I would not expect AA batteries.

I think the K200D was a unique Pentax camera with no real precident, and no real replacment.

StevenVH · 10-22-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up.
<snipped>
When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ?

What is it that you want in an upgrade?
If you just want 2 dials and more features, even the K10 could be considered an upgrade. The K20 is the next model up from the same product line and was my choice. From the current line up it would seem the K7 is the obvious choice. I haven't read enough about and considered the Kx much, but it at least has some improvements.

I struggled with the battery issue myself, but realized I'd have to get over it. Li-ion batteries have been in wide use for a long time. I have 2 for my K20, 1 generic, and they both work very well and last much longer (so far) than Ni-MH batteries.

gl

SOldBear · 10-22-2009, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

But it's a lithium-ion battery based camera, and that's a big no-no for me - this battery technology is just not reliable enough.

Wow, not reliable enough!

LiIon batteries have been around for years and the technology is very mature IMHO.

I myself prefer LiIon. In fact, my Ricoh GX200 can take either proprietary LiIon battery or alkaline/oxyride/Ni-MH AAA batteries, I tried AAA batteries only once just for testing.

jeffrey r · 10-22-2009, 06:46 PM

I am kind of finding the same dilemma, though it is not a real problem because I am still incredibly pleased with my K200D.

K10 is just not it. K2000/k-m isn't it. K20D would be nice, but I like the smaller size of the K200D, and with the K-X and K-7 out now, the K20D becomes a bit less compelling. The K-X looks great, but you give up some obvious features that the K200D has despite the features the K-X adds, most of all weathersealing. The K-7 would likely be it for me, but it really needs to come down in price first, and now people are saying the K-X has a better sensor. Tough call, so I guess I'll be sitting tight for the time being. That's all just imho of course.

madbrain · 10-22-2009, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by StevenVH

What is it that you want in an upgrade?
If you just want 2 dials and more features, even the K10 could be considered an upgrade. The K20 is the next model up from the same product line and was my choice. From the current line up it would seem the K7 is the obvious choice. I haven't read enough about and considered the Kx much, but it at least has some improvements.

I struggled with the battery issue myself, but realized I'd have to get over it. Li-ion batteries have been in wide use for a long time. I have 2 for my K20, 1 generic, and they both work very well and last much longer (so far) than Ni-MH batteries.

gl

I don't care much for the extra dials of the K20, and the K10 would not a logical upgrade path due to its use of Li-io batteries.

The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order.

madbrain · 10-22-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by SOldBear

Wow, not reliable enough!

LiIon batteries have been around for years and the technology is very mature IMHO.

I myself prefer LiIon. In fact, my Ricoh GX200 can take either proprietary LiIon battery or alkaline/oxyride/Ni-MH AAA batteries, I tried AAA batteries only once just for testing.

Well, all those LiIon batteries are proprietary to each device. And they require proprietary chargers.
Exploding / fire catching LiIon batteries have made the news and will again.
They don't keep their charge. They die when you leave on a shelf for a few years.
I wish my cell phone could use AAA instead of Li-On so I could change the battery at little cost. After 1-2 years the battery life is clearly much less.
My sister in France had a stack of LiIon batteries for her Canon camcorder. None of them work anymore, and it's not from much use. They just sat there.
Same thing happened to the batteries for my camcorder.
Give me Eneloops any day over these crappy LiIon.

**Ash** · 10-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Well, all those LiIon batteries are proprietary to each device. And they require proprietary chargers.
Exploding / fire catching LiIon batteries have made the news and will again.
They don't keep their charge. They die when you leave on a shelf for a few years.
I wish my cell phone could use AAA instead of Li-On so I could change the battery at little cost. After 1-2 years the battery life is clearly much less.
My sister in France had a stack of LiIon batteries for her Canon camcorder. None of them work anymore, and it's not from much use. They just sat there.
Same thing happened to the batteries for my camcorder.
Give me Eneloops any day over these crappy LiIon.

Never heard of any of the problems you described with Li-ion.
They've been my most reliable power source for any Pentax cam, even compared to Powerexs and Eneloops, which are both excellent.

madbrain · 10-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by KungPOW

I doubt you will see a replacment to the K200D.

Pentax has never really been know for continuing a series of cameras. I don't expect they will place a camera between the K-7 and the K-x. And if they do, I would not expect AA batteries.

I think the K200D was a unique Pentax camera with no real precident, and no real replacment.

There may not be a market for something in between the K-x and K-7 indeed. But as I understand, the K200D was Pentax' most popular DSLR. I might never have bought any DSLR at all if that camera had not been made. Why not build on the camera's success and give it a few extras ?

I hope Pentax does eventually figure out they had a very good design with the K200D and build on its success. I'm not in a real rush to upgrade, but if there was K-y today that was a K200D +HD video +2-3fps +0-2MP, I would definitely upgrade . As it is they took out weather sealing and grip connectivity from the K-x, so they are going to have to do better.

res3567 · 10-23-2009, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order.

If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice.

rustynail925 · 10-23-2009, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

I don't care much for the extra dials of the K20, and the K10 would not a logical upgrade path due to its use of Li-io batteries.

The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order.

Kx - Video 24Fps, 4.7 Fps, 12MP
K7 - Video 30Fps, 5.2Fps, 14.6MP, Weathersealing, Battery Grip

If money is not an issue go for the K7.
If you're keeping your K200D, the Kx would be a great combo since you are using
the K200D mostly outdoors, hiking, etc. The Kx would be great for indoor and low light.

Mister Guy · 10-23-2009, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by res3567

If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice.

Correction, K7 with AA tray in the battery grip is the obvious choice.

However, in practical terms, there isn't yet a K200D "replacement" strictly speaking. I wouldn't expect one until late spring next year, as the technology from the K7 is paid for and they release a midlevel model with the K7 tech with a few of the advanced features removed.

Check the timeline:

Template:Pentax DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

K20D released with all new stuff, then K20D released with basically K10D's guts. I'd expect a K70ish to be released with K7 guts next year at the earliest.

maleek · 10-23-2009, 07:45 AM

I have only one tip. Don't focus to much on megapixels. I think they are the least important factor of a camera today.

Marc Sabatella · 10-23-2009, 11:20 AM

I'm as big a fan of AA's as they come, but I agree with others that you are overstating the downsides of Li-Ion. Sure, a couple of well-publicized but *extremely* isolated problems from a couple of poorly designed cells, but shoot, there have been some poorly designed cars that have gone up in flames in small crashes; that doesn't put me off the whole idea of the internal combustion engine. Yeah, they go dead on the shelf eventually, but so do virtually every other battery technology there is (lithiums might last longer than most, but aren't rechargeable, so that's hardly an advantage).

I think the K-7 is your obvious upgrade here, and if the camera needs more voltage in order to power some of those more advanced features, you should be willing to accept a change in battery technology.

Not that I wouldn't also like an AA-powered weather upgrade for the K200D someday. But Pentax doesn't have the resources to put out a zillion different models at a zillions different price points with exactly the feature set waned by each customer - they have to make the best calls they can on how to satisfy as many customers with as few different designs as possible.

**Aristophanes** · 10-23-2009, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by res3567

If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice.

Too expensive. Canon T1i $400 cheaper in my market. Nikon D5000 also cheaper. Both have feature sets (sans AA power) above the K-x. It's good to see the K-7 coming down in price, but it's still a very expensive body.

There's a huge hole in the Pentax lineup; a lot of consumer $$$ on the table with only a 2 model structure.

10-22-2009, 04:23 PM	#1
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Upgrade path from K200D ? I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up. The K2000 / k-m isn't it, no weather sealing, no grip ability, and same megapixels as the K200D. The K-7 is interesting. 4.2 More megapixels, video ability, more fps. But it's a lithium-ion battery based camera, and that's a big no-no for me - this battery technology is just not reliable enough. It does have a grip that can take AAs, but I don't want to always have the grip on. The K-X is interesting too. It has 2.2 more megapixels, video ability, more FPS. But it has no weather sealing unlike the K200D. And it also lacks the ability to attach a grip. When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ?

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10-22-2009, 04:58 PM	#2
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	I doubt you will see a replacment to the K200D. Pentax has never really been know for continuing a series of cameras. I don't expect they will place a camera between the K-7 and the K-x. And if they do, I would not expect AA batteries. I think the K200D was a unique Pentax camera with no real precident, and no real replacment.

10-22-2009, 06:20 PM	#3
StevenVH Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 475	Originally posted by madbrain I'm having a hard time finding a logical upgrade path for this camera in the current Pentax line up. <snipped> When is Pentax going to release a camera that is in every way an upgrade from the K200D ? What is it that you want in an upgrade? If you just want 2 dials and more features, even the K10 could be considered an upgrade. The K20 is the next model up from the same product line and was my choice. From the current line up it would seem the K7 is the obvious choice. I haven't read enough about and considered the Kx much, but it at least has some improvements. I struggled with the battery issue myself, but realized I'd have to get over it. Li-ion batteries have been in wide use for a long time. I have 2 for my K20, 1 generic, and they both work very well and last much longer (so far) than Ni-MH batteries. gl

10-22-2009, 06:42 PM	#4
SOldBear Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Alameda, CA Posts: 3,206	Originally posted by madbrain But it's a lithium-ion battery based camera, and that's a big no-no for me - this battery technology is just not reliable enough. Wow, not reliable enough! LiIon batteries have been around for years and the technology is very mature IMHO. I myself prefer LiIon. In fact, my Ricoh GX200 can take either proprietary LiIon battery or alkaline/oxyride/Ni-MH AAA batteries, I tried AAA batteries only once just for testing.

10-22-2009, 06:46 PM	#5
jeffrey r Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 337	I am kind of finding the same dilemma, though it is not a real problem because I am still incredibly pleased with my K200D. K10 is just not it. K2000/k-m isn't it. K20D would be nice, but I like the smaller size of the K200D, and with the K-X and K-7 out now, the K20D becomes a bit less compelling. The K-X looks great, but you give up some obvious features that the K200D has despite the features the K-X adds, most of all weathersealing. The K-7 would likely be it for me, but it really needs to come down in price first, and now people are saying the K-X has a better sensor. Tough call, so I guess I'll be sitting tight for the time being. That's all just imho of course.

10-22-2009, 06:56 PM	#6
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by StevenVH What is it that you want in an upgrade? If you just want 2 dials and more features, even the K10 could be considered an upgrade. The K20 is the next model up from the same product line and was my choice. From the current line up it would seem the K7 is the obvious choice. I haven't read enough about and considered the Kx much, but it at least has some improvements. I struggled with the battery issue myself, but realized I'd have to get over it. Li-ion batteries have been in wide use for a long time. I have 2 for my K20, 1 generic, and they both work very well and last much longer (so far) than Ni-MH batteries. gl I don't care much for the extra dials of the K20, and the K10 would not a logical upgrade path due to its use of Li-io batteries. The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order.

10-22-2009, 06:59 PM	#7
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by SOldBear Wow, not reliable enough! LiIon batteries have been around for years and the technology is very mature IMHO. I myself prefer LiIon. In fact, my Ricoh GX200 can take either proprietary LiIon battery or alkaline/oxyride/Ni-MH AAA batteries, I tried AAA batteries only once just for testing. Well, all those LiIon batteries are proprietary to each device. And they require proprietary chargers. Exploding / fire catching LiIon batteries have made the news and will again. They don't keep their charge. They die when you leave on a shelf for a few years. I wish my cell phone could use AAA instead of Li-On so I could change the battery at little cost. After 1-2 years the battery life is clearly much less. My sister in France had a stack of LiIon batteries for her Canon camcorder. None of them work anymore, and it's not from much use. They just sat there. Same thing happened to the batteries for my camcorder. Give me Eneloops any day over these crappy LiIon.

10-22-2009, 07:08 PM	#8
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by madbrain Well, all those LiIon batteries are proprietary to each device. And they require proprietary chargers. Exploding / fire catching LiIon batteries have made the news and will again. They don't keep their charge. They die when you leave on a shelf for a few years. I wish my cell phone could use AAA instead of Li-On so I could change the battery at little cost. After 1-2 years the battery life is clearly much less. My sister in France had a stack of LiIon batteries for her Canon camcorder. None of them work anymore, and it's not from much use. They just sat there. Same thing happened to the batteries for my camcorder. Give me Eneloops any day over these crappy LiIon. Never heard of any of the problems you described with Li-ion. They've been my most reliable power source for any Pentax cam, even compared to Powerexs and Eneloops, which are both excellent.

10-22-2009, 07:08 PM	#9
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by KungPOW I doubt you will see a replacment to the K200D. Pentax has never really been know for continuing a series of cameras. I don't expect they will place a camera between the K-7 and the K-x. And if they do, I would not expect AA batteries. I think the K200D was a unique Pentax camera with no real precident, and no real replacment. There may not be a market for something in between the K-x and K-7 indeed. But as I understand, the K200D was Pentax' most popular DSLR. I might never have bought any DSLR at all if that camera had not been made. Why not build on the camera's success and give it a few extras ? I hope Pentax does eventually figure out they had a very good design with the K200D and build on its success. I'm not in a real rush to upgrade, but if there was K-y today that was a K200D +HD video +2-3fps +0-2MP, I would definitely upgrade . As it is they took out weather sealing and grip connectivity from the K-x, so they are going to have to do better.

10-23-2009, 02:03 AM	#10
res3567 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Houston Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,876	Originally posted by madbrain The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order. If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice.

10-23-2009, 05:47 AM	#11
rustynail925 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,551	Originally posted by madbrain I don't care much for the extra dials of the K20, and the K10 would not a logical upgrade path due to its use of Li-io batteries. The things I do care about from the latest Pentax cameras, are video, more fps, and more MP, in that order. Kx - Video 24Fps, 4.7 Fps, 12MP K7 - Video 30Fps, 5.2Fps, 14.6MP, Weathersealing, Battery Grip If money is not an issue go for the K7. If you're keeping your K200D, the Kx would be a great combo since you are using the K200D mostly outdoors, hiking, etc. The Kx would be great for indoor and low light.

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10-23-2009, 07:35 AM	#12
Mister Guy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 244	Originally posted by res3567 If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice. Correction, K7 with AA tray in the battery grip is the obvious choice. However, in practical terms, there isn't yet a K200D "replacement" strictly speaking. I wouldn't expect one until late spring next year, as the technology from the K7 is paid for and they release a midlevel model with the K7 tech with a few of the advanced features removed. Check the timeline: Template:Pentax DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia K20D released with all new stuff, then K20D released with basically K10D's guts. I'd expect a K70ish to be released with K7 guts next year at the earliest.

10-23-2009, 07:45 AM	#13
maleek Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Karlstad, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 222	I have only one tip. Don't focus to much on megapixels. I think they are the least important factor of a camera today.

10-23-2009, 11:20 AM	#14
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I'm as big a fan of AA's as they come, but I agree with others that you are overstating the downsides of Li-Ion. Sure, a couple of well-publicized but extremely isolated problems from a couple of poorly designed cells, but shoot, there have been some poorly designed cars that have gone up in flames in small crashes; that doesn't put me off the whole idea of the internal combustion engine. Yeah, they go dead on the shelf eventually, but so do virtually every other battery technology there is (lithiums might last longer than most, but aren't rechargeable, so that's hardly an advantage). I think the K-7 is your obvious upgrade here, and if the camera needs more voltage in order to power some of those more advanced features, you should be willing to accept a change in battery technology. Not that I wouldn't also like an AA-powered weather upgrade for the K200D someday. But Pentax doesn't have the resources to put out a zillion different models at a zillions different price points with exactly the feature set waned by each customer - they have to make the best calls they can on how to satisfy as many customers with as few different designs as possible.

10-23-2009, 11:53 AM	#15
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by res3567 If that is the case then the K7 is your OBVIOUS choice. Too expensive. Canon T1i $400 cheaper in my market. Nikon D5000 also cheaper. Both have feature sets (sans AA power) above the K-x. It's good to see the K-7 coming down in price, but it's still a very expensive body. There's a huge hole in the Pentax lineup; a lot of consumer $$$ on the table with only a 2 model structure.