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View Poll Results: Would you rather have a K-x?
I have a K-7 and I would rather keep it 11251.61%
I have a K-7 and would rather have a K-x 135.99%
I don't have a K-7 9242.40%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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12-03-2009, 12:15 AM   #76
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I bought he k-m for my wife and it's a great little camera but it's an entry level camera. Takes amazing pictures, but when you pick it up, it is feather light plastic and very limited. Looks like the K-x is a step up, but unless all you want to do is crank the ISO and take pictures, I don't think there is much to compare when comparing it to the K-7.

12-03-2009, 05:38 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
Everything is good in talk, except for one thing is in the end what comes out of the camera that matters the most.
If the camera you hold dances and changes colors and do all that fancy things, but if it does not cut it in terms of image quality all is waste.
You say the K-x takes better photos even at ISO 1600 and less, even though several others have said the opposite. Your opinion is based on some photos you took in a camera shop, that clearly were messed up in some way. I would love to see this photo posted with the exif intact. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/789541-post47.html
12-03-2009, 06:30 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
You say the K-x takes better photos even at ISO 1600 and less, even though several others have said the opposite.
Only thing that people say is that they prefer k7 images at base isos than kx, that is down to preference to sensor. No one has said that k7 is better at even base isos. The reasons why k7 is inferior are:

1. kx shows more DR at base isos than k7 this is shown by tests of fumolabs. Plus in review of d5000 of nikon (same sensor as kx) dpreview notes that it showed usuable DR of 8.8EV, while the camera considered to be best so far (has better DR than k7) nikon's d90 , for it dpreview notes DR of 8.3EV.
So this clearly shows that at base isos kx is no slouch but in fact difference is large than you might expect.

2. k7 resolution advantage is minute compared to its DR disadvantage.

3. The images from various test sites (ex, dpreview) shows that k7 wants double shutter speed than kx (and other cams). You can search there was thread discussing this on dpreview. So for same scene when you are at iso400 on kx, you will be on iso800 on k7. Plus given already 1 stop or more disadvantage to k7. You can put 2 and 2 together.

I have to be absolute fanboy to buy k7 after knowing this much.

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Your opinion is based on some photos you took in a camera shop, that clearly were messed up in some way.
You really believe i am that stupid???


QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I would love to see this photo posted with the exif intact. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/789541-post47.html
_IGP9939 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

right hand side of link there is a link for 'more properties', have a look, it is iso 200 shot.
12-03-2009, 09:16 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
The K-7 strengths can't be made for with software.
if you will make an error w/ K7 you will have much less chances to correct that w/ software vs Kx... so K7 shines if you will make a perfectly exposed, base ISO shot of sufficiently DR limited scene... step left, step right - have a trouble... where your software can correct something for K7 it will correct twice more for Kx and w/ some room left.

having said that we all know that K7 has better ergonomics for most of forum users as a camera - that 's what you pay for - but sensorwise Sony had an edge over Samsung here

12-03-2009, 10:04 AM   #80
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I wonder when these comparisons will end...It's like asking an E class owner owner if he wishes he got the new VW because it has such great gas milage.

That's only one aspect of the car just as ISO performance is only one aspect of the camera. Do you sacrifice all other aspects just for the good gas milage? It just seems like a silly question to me, apples and oranges.
12-03-2009, 10:16 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtroute Quote
I wonder when these comparisons will end...It's like asking an E class owner owner if he wishes he got the new VW because it has such great gas milage.

That's only one aspect of the car just as ISO performance is only one aspect of the camera. Do you sacrifice all other aspects just for the good gas milage? It just seems like a silly question to me, apples and oranges.
sensor is rather an engine... weatherproof body is rather a gas mieage
12-03-2009, 03:05 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
Only thing that people say is that they prefer k7 images at base isos than kx, that is down to preference to sensor. No one has said that k7 is better at even base isos. The reasons why k7 is inferior are:

1. kx shows more DR at base isos than k7 this is shown by tests of fumolabs. Plus in review of d5000 of nikon (same sensor as kx) dpreview notes that it showed usuable DR of 8.8EV, while the camera considered to be best so far (has better DR than k7) nikon's d90 , for it dpreview notes DR of 8.3EV.
So this clearly shows that at base isos kx is no slouch but in fact difference is large than you might expect.

2. k7 resolution advantage is minute compared to its DR disadvantage.

3. The images from various test sites (ex, dpreview) shows that k7 wants double shutter speed than kx (and other cams). You can search there was thread discussing this on dpreview. So for same scene when you are at iso400 on kx, you will be on iso800 on k7. Plus given already 1 stop or more disadvantage to k7. You can put 2 and 2 together.

I have to be absolute fanboy to buy k7 after knowing this much.



You really believe i am that stupid???




_IGP9939 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

right hand side of link there is a link for 'more properties', have a look, it is iso 200 shot.
pardon me zxaar, but what the heck is wrong with you? you dont have to badmouth the K-7 just because you can't afford it. you had been like this eversince. you're like a woman scorned if I were to say it. your so-called proof aren't as concrete or rather based upon what you called as better ISO at low or base ISO. that's completely bull. regardless of whether it is a Pentax , Sony, Nikon , Canon, etc... determining which base ISO from 100-200 and even at higher ISOs up to 800 are not that far-off with each other. the so-called k-x ISO "real" advantage starts only at "ISO 3200". the K-7's ISO 1600 is a bit noisy but isn't significantly what you call as ugly or make it any less appealing than the kx can produce. so no real advantage there for the kx.


just a word of advice, stop reading too much rubbish at dpreview !!! please stop this nonsense already because it's becoming ridiculous.

just to make things clear, let me give a real world scenario comparison. I will not engage into a what if hybrid camera scenario because that is another or different debate and not the same as as k7 versus a kx. making a hypothetical scenario would only put a stale or clear advantage between the two. take note, a hybrid is not a kx nor a k7. so trash that one out.

point 1, if the kx is priced around the same as that of the k-7 at 1200, basing from what you call as superior quality which you deemed as the most important thing, would the pentax buyers in general would go for the k-x? the answer is NO !

point 2, if the K-7 is price around the same price as that of the k-x at 650, would the Pentax buyers in general would still go for the k-x since you are reiterating that the k-x is superior from base ISO up to whatever? the answer again is NO.

do you know why? it is not only because of the what the K-7's other features but because there is no relatively real IQ advantage by the k-x over it. IQ by the K-7 is already excellent.

the only real advantage that the kx has is being an entry level dslr that has a very good high ISO capability at a very "AFFORDABLE PRICE". the rest would just be pure rubbish.

name me 5 forum members that have a K7 that would gladly trade their dlsr for a k-x. even if you put both cameras at the same price bracket level, the k-x won't even sell nor trade like crazy. fact is, the k-x is overall inferior to the K-7. even inferior to the K20D.
12-03-2009, 03:32 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
name me 5 forum members that have a K7 that would gladly trade their dlsr for a k-x.

No they won't trade and the reason is k7 is better body, and has more features than kx. They bought k7 for its features for the first place why would they replace it for inferior body.


QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
pardon me zxaar, but what the heck is wrong with you? you dont have to badmouth the K-7 just because you can't afford it. .
First nothing wrong with me. Second i could afford it this is why i was looking at it for the first place. if you check sony R1 when released costed similar to k7 and i bought in first month. It was good cam i bought it, kx was good cam, i bought it in first week of release.

Anyway, at base isos DR is important and tests does show this sensor has more than k7. Plus exposure timing issues (need double amount of time) is also discussed to length. So purely sensors point of view kx is in better even at base isos. This is not figment of my imagination.

Further if you notice i was responding to 'the only thing kx does better is high iso ... '. I feel image quality is most important aspect of camera, and its advantage should not be tossed out saying that it is nothing.

12-03-2009, 06:38 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
No they won't trade and the reason is k7 is better body, and has more features than kx. They bought k7 for its features for the first place why would they replace it for inferior body.




First nothing wrong with me. Second i could afford it this is why i was looking at it for the first place. if you check sony R1 when released costed similar to k7 and i bought in first month. It was good cam i bought it, kx was good cam, i bought it in first week of release.

Anyway, at base isos DR is important and tests does show this sensor has more than k7. Plus exposure timing issues (need double amount of time) is also discussed to length. So purely sensors point of view kx is in better even at base isos. This is not figment of my imagination.

Further if you notice i was responding to 'the only thing kx does better is high iso ... '. I feel image quality is most important aspect of camera, and its advantage should not be tossed out saying that it is nothing.
so if your basis say because the k-7 is or has a better body and features, then tell me why the better bodied and better featured E-3 and Sony A850 doesn't sell so well against the k-x? as opposed to the people in general prefer the K-7 over the k-x? that alone should give you a clue that the supposed IQ superiority that you are referring at base ISO DR is not really superior at all nor does it merit any logical or significant reason. the fact is, the K-7 is preferred by the general public not because it has all the better features that the k-x doesn't have, but because the K-7 is excellent in IQ performance. the supposed k-x base ISO DR superiority is a myth. and what about exposure timing issues? well, there isn't any and I don't know where you got that.

as many had said time and again, the k-x is nothing more than a high-ISO performer. it's not even better than the K20D. that's a simple fact.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 12-03-2009 at 07:20 PM.
12-03-2009, 07:29 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
so if your basis say because the k-7 is or has a better body and features, then tell me why the better bodied and better featured E-3 and Sony A850 doesn't sell so well against the k-x? as opposed to the people in general prefer the K-7 over the k-x? that alone should give you a clue that the supposed IQ superiority that you are referring at base ISO DR is not really superior at all nor does it merit any logical or significant reason. the fact is, the K-7 is preferred by the general public not because it has all the better features that the k-x doesn't have, but because the K-7 is excellent in IQ performance. the supposed k-x base ISO DR superiority is a myth. and what about exposure timing issues? well, there isn't any and I don't know where you got that.

as many had said time and again, the k-x is nothing more than a high-ISO performer. it's not even better than the K20D. that's a simple fact.

I take it as you have no clue of what you are talking about.

1. A850 is full frame camera and it is selling pretty well for the market it is targeted. Here in japan around a month back when i went to shoot maple leafs , i spotted 3 a900 and more than 15 sony dslrs around me in that day. I only noticed 3 pentaxes (including mine) and none of them was k7.

2. You say DR is just a myth. Wake up, all the people like Fumolabs , dpr (for d5000) DXOMark are not stupid that they spend that much time measuring it.
Its only matter of time when someone else will also put into numbers about their DR comparisons.

3. Exposure issue is real problem because if k7 wants double shutter speeds , it is real problem for real life situations.

K7 is not bad cam, i will give you that but it does not deserve 1400$ for what its IQ is, when k-x selling at 600$ odd.
12-03-2009, 07:42 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
I take it as you have no clue of what you are talking about.

1. A850 is full frame camera and it is selling pretty well for the market it is targeted. Here in japan around a month back when i went to shoot maple leafs , i spotted 3 a900 and more than 15 sony dslrs around me in that day. I only noticed 3 pentaxes (including mine) and none of them was k7.

2. You say DR is just a myth. Wake up, all the people like Fumolabs , dpr (for d5000) DXOMark are not stupid that they spend that much time measuring it.
Its only matter of time when someone else will also put into numbers about their DR comparisons.

3. Exposure issue is real problem because if k7 wants double shutter speeds , it is real problem for real life situations.

K7 is not bad cam, i will give you that but it does not deserve 1400$ for what its IQ is, when k-x selling at 600$ odd.
This is a major exaggeration of a problem that doesn't exist. The K7 by default tends toward over exposure. It does not require double the shutter speeds, it by default tends to use 1 and 1/2 the shutter speed and then to under expose the RAW image. If you shoot RAW, it is no big deal. Just use a little negative EV compensation and it will be fine. On the other hand, it sure looks like the K7 does a better job at exposing images than past iterations of Pentax cameras, like the K20 and K10, which tended to under expose images and require some pushing in post processing.
12-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
I take it as you have no clue of what you are talking about.

1. A850 is full frame camera and it is selling pretty well for the market it is targeted. Here in japan around a month back when i went to shoot maple leafs , i spotted 3 a900 and more than 15 sony dslrs around me in that day. I only noticed 3 pentaxes (including mine) and none of them was k7.

2. You say DR is just a myth. Wake up, all the people like Fumolabs , dpr (for d5000) DXOMark are not stupid that they spend that much time measuring it.
Its only matter of time when someone else will also put into numbers about their DR comparisons.

3. Exposure issue is real problem because if k7 wants double shutter speeds , it is real problem for real life situations.

K7 is not bad cam, i will give you that but it does not deserve 1400$ for what its IQ is, when k-x selling at 600$ odd.

1.> you said only 3 A900. that isn't even a real number. it doesn't matter if the A850 is a fullframe, we are talking about bodies and features here. and please provide me an entire market statistics of the A900 or A850 proving your point.

2.> do you know where and what cameras DR really trumps out? hint: it's not a k-x

3.> this is one of the most illogical and purely heresay statement I have ever heard. please refer to Rondec's statement. btw, you don't own a K-7 so your basis is baseless. I do own one and the exposure issue that you are saying is purely non-existent, unless you deliberately mess with exposure, then you might what you call as a problem.

another thing, I'm still having some nightmares regarding your K-7 test shots which showed a bad IQ even at low ISO. I seem cannot recreate such ugly image whenever I use the camera properly. please learn how to use the camera at it's potential before you say something is wrong with the camera.
12-03-2009, 08:09 PM   #88
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I think I have heard enough rubbish about non-existing issues and other brouhahas. so I'd just leave whatever kx fanboy's wetdream is. don't want to spoil his fun with his supposedly superior k-x at lower ISOs.
12-03-2009, 08:12 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
1.> you said only 3 A900. that isn't even a real number. it doesn't matter if the A850 is a fullframe, we are talking about bodies and features here. and please provide me an entire market statistics of the A900 or A850 proving your point.
still better than 0 for k7. You are talking as if people are flocking to buy k7. Last time i checked k7 did not turn pentax fortunes. K-x might do because it is selling much better.


QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
2.> do you know where and what cameras DR really trumps out? hint: it's not a k-x
Check dxomark, d90 scores best in apc cams. And by the way top five cams based on dr, none of them is k7.
Plus , dpr ranked d5000 DR better than d90. (so its matter of time kx will also score similar).

Plus fumolabs did score k-x higher than any other apc cams.

So sorry but k7 is not a player in DR game.




QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
3.> this is one of the most illogical and purely heresay statement I have ever heard. please refer to Rondec's statement. btw, you don't own a K-7 so your basis is baseless. I do own one and the exposure issue that you are saying is purely non-existent, unless you deliberately mess with exposure, then you might what you call as a problem.
Read here about facts and number. K7 is only odd ball out among other cams.


K-x vs K-7, without K-7 ISO cheating: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

you are just a fanboy of k7 thats all, you have not provided single numbered comparison to show that k7 is better on DR or high iso noise. Neither you have provided any link or test to disprove anything i wrote.

You belive if you close your eyes and belive in it , it will become truth. But sorry it will not.


QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
another thing, I'm still having some nightmares regarding your K-7 test shots which showed a bad IQ even at low ISO. I seem cannot recreate such ugly image whenever I use the camera properly. please learn how to use the camera at it's potential before you say something is wrong with the camera.
I take it as an insult.

By the way, i could also not reproduce that with k-x , k100d or my sony r1. It is only k7 special.

Good luck i do not have any interest in playing with you. You live in world of dreams and not in world of facts and figures. We domp gel.
12-03-2009, 10:18 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
No one has said that k7 is better at even base isos.
Not true, I've read that very thing from three people who used both.


QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
The reasons why k7 is inferior are:

1. kx shows more DR at base isos than k7 this is shown by tests of fumolabs.
High dynamic range is not the only measure of IQ. It's just one parameter. Otherwise why would anyone praise Olympus photos?

QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
2. k7 resolution advantage is minute compared to its DR disadvantage.
Resolution is one more component of IQ, but it's not the full answer either. I love the depth of colour and the texture of photos from the Samsung sensor. I don't see that special look in the K-x photos I've looked at, nor in K100D photos, nor in a friend's Canon 50D.
"In particular, from my first pictures of real subjects, I get a sense of smoothness, of more seamless tonal transitions throughout the range, while the general feel of the color is similar to the K10D. At the same time, detail looks very "optical" to me. That is, edges and textures look the way I expect a lens to render them, not as though they've been artificially generated by a computer. The terms "plasticky" and "film-like" get tossed around a bit—so far my impression is the K20D results are in the latter camp." The Online Photographer: Pentax K20D Report?Part II: The CMOS Sensor

Many K-x photos have a sort of buzzy look to me. Maybe it's the anti-alias filter, or maybe the built-in processor oversharpens the jpegs.

QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
3. The images from various test sites (ex, dpreview) shows that k7 wants double shutter speed than kx (and other cams). You can search there was thread discussing this on dpreview. So for same scene when you are at iso400 on kx, you will be on iso800 on k7. Plus given already 1 stop or more disadvantage to k7. You can put 2 and 2 together.
I've been following that discussion and it's not nearly as simple as you seem to think. If this turns out to be true, it's a problem, but so far I'm not convinced that the K-7 is losing a whole stop of light.

QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
I have to be absolute fanboy to buy k7 after knowing this much.
You are a fanboy, but for the K-x, not the K-7. The K-7 is close in DR and high ISO to its competitors like 50D and D300. The K-x is close to the newer competitors like the D5000. This higher ISO trick will soon be available on many dslrs, but a K-x level of camera will never have the build quality or controls that are available on a K-7.

QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
You really believe i am that stupid???
I never said you were stupid. You are human, and humans make mistakes. I've taken thousands of photos with my Samsung-sensor K20D and the only time a photo has looked like that is when I did something wrong or when the lens was broken.

The exif is stripped and the Flikr properties don't say what aperture was used. From the heavy pf and high shutter speed I'd say very wide, probably f/1.4. You used manual exposure to overexpose the photo and you used manual focus. I'd say you missed whatever it was you think you focussed on. DOF at wide aperture is very narrow, therefore most of the photo looks blurry. There's probably a very narrow slice that's sharp, but the largest size available for download is 500 pixels wide, so it's not suitable for pixel peeping.

Last edited by audiobomber; 12-03-2009 at 10:28 PM.
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