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10-27-2009, 09:46 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote
Yeah I was going to post the Jpegs, but I am having a difficult time to figure out which settings I did with each lol...I should of written it all down. I did for the first couple K7 shots, but was quickly running out of time, so I just rushed everything after!
You can see all the camera settings by opening the photos in Pentax Photo browser. Or with an exif reader.

10-27-2009, 09:55 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
You can see all the camera settings by opening the photos in Pentax Photo browser. Or with an exif reader.
This actually didn't work with the Kx photos. (I'm using pentax DCU v4) and for the K7 pics it will state the ISO NR level, but with the Kx the Exif seems to be blank (but it is not blank when I use something like windows explorer) but I haven't tried finding an exif reader.

I'm going to try to retake the pictures with an f/5.6
10-27-2009, 10:32 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote
I chose F/22 because I assumed that would give me the largest DOF which I assumed would give me everything I wanted. Just to let everyone know I got my K7 Oct 16th, and opened the boxes on Oct 17th just an FYI.

I'm actually not too sure what diffraction is when it comes to photography (please bear in mind I just woke up)

As far as the WB on the Kx vs K7 I thought I had explained that alraedy...one was set to auto, the other was set to manual (Kx) and real world, the K7 actually has the more accurate colors. Just an FYI.

Ogl, if you would like to nitpick, maybe you could be helpful and try and teach me why I would choose a certain f/x number vs another for sharpness. I mean would you like me to comment english skills.

I actually have some time today, so I'll take all your advice and try to reshoot at a different store. (more dim environment) This time I will be sure to mark down all the settings =D

Well this isn't my first camera, and I had to look up what he was referring to as well.

Here's a link with a good simple explanation as it pertains to photography Diffraction and Optimum Aperture - Format size and diffraction limitations on sharpness Here's another more in depth. Diffraction Limited Photography: Pixel Size, Aperture and Airy Disks

ogl seems to miss the point that if there is someone willing to do something liek this, and does it sub-optimally, the best course of action might be to be nice and explain how it could be done better rather than be a jerk about it.

If one is going to be a jerk about it, it also helps to be correct. The mathematical limit for aps-c is about f16, not f11. But the lens and sensor geometry will impact that.
10-27-2009, 10:55 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote
This actually didn't work with the Kx photos. (I'm using pentax DCU v4) and for the K7 pics it will state the ISO NR level, but with the Kx the Exif seems to be blank (but it is not blank when I use something like windows explorer) but I haven't tried finding an exif reader.

I'm not familiar with DCU, but sometimes Picasa strips EXIF info (for example if you use Auto Contrast or I'm Feeling Lucky), so possibly that's what happened.
This is a pretty handy program to have: Exif Reader - English Version

QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote
I'm going to try to retake the pictures with an f/5.6
Great! If I may make a few suggestions (having been raked over the coals a few times for some of my tests).
- Use the default settings for WB, Image Tone, etc on both cameras (go into the SET-UP menu and select RESET). If people object to that, they're criticizing Pentax, not you.

- Start with the K-7 and select MTF Program mode. It will tell you what aperture is sharpest for the lens and focal length. Set both cameras on Aperture priority using the aperture indicated by MTF mode. (Or just use f5.6, that's pretty safe).

- Always use 2s delay on the shutter because it locks up the mirror and defeats shake reduction (SR is not recommended with a tripod).

Look forward to seeing your results.

10-27-2009, 11:55 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
This is a pretty handy program to have: Exif Reader - English Version



Great! If I may make a few suggestions (having been raked over the coals a few times for some of my tests).
- Use the default settings for WB, Image Tone, etc on both cameras (go into the SET-UP menu and select RESET). If people object to that, they're criticizing Pentax, not you.

- Start with the K-7 and select MTF Program mode. It will tell you what aperture is sharpest for the lens and focal length. Set both cameras on Aperture priority using the aperture indicated by MTF mode. (Or just use f5.6, that's pretty safe).

- Always use 2s delay on the shutter because it locks up the mirror and defeats shake reduction (SR is not recommended with a tripod).

Look forward to seeing your results.
I wish I had read this post before I left. I already took the pictures:

50mm at f/5.6 on both the K7 and Kx raw+ (NR on default settings, and NR on most aggressive settings) AWB, center focus, and multi segmented metering for light. SR was on. Using a tripod.

The next comment is not directed towards audiobomber:
Again I was in a very big rush, and the only mistake I made this time was on the Kx the RAWs were saved as PEF. Seriously if anyone has complaints about the PEF, then go and take the comparisons your self. As far as I can tell NO one so far has compared the Kx and K7 directly with the same scene.

This was a busy store, so there may be objects in the edges of the pictures that change (as people were putting down cameras on the counter to show customers)

Link will be up later today. As I am now heading to work.
10-27-2009, 12:08 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote
This actually didn't work with the Kx photos. (I'm using pentax DCU v4) and for the K7 pics it will state the ISO NR level, but with the Kx the Exif seems to be blank (but it is not blank when I use something like windows explorer) but I haven't tried finding an exif reader.

I'm going to try to retake the pictures with an f/5.6
First many thanks for doing all this - despite the critiques I found the images very useful since I am mainly looking at the noise at high ISO - the Kx does seem to be pretty good in that aspect.

For EXIF info may I suggest using PhotoMe - it's Freeware and very useful for all sorts of information - including the number of shutter actuations - this is the most comprehensive program I know of.

Another that's popular is ExifTool by Phil Harvey again Freeware.

As suggested it is worthwhile using the cameras on default setting for JPG -
and any reproducible setting that's meaningful/make sense to you -
after all they are your tests!

I look forward to your default JPG shots.

Thank you for the effort.
10-27-2009, 12:55 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
First many thanks for doing all this - despite the critiques I found the images very useful since I am mainly looking at the noise at high ISO - the Kx does seem to be pretty good in that aspect.

For EXIF info may I suggest using PhotoMe - it's Freeware and very useful for all sorts of information - including the number of shutter actuations - this is the most comprehensive program I know of.

Another that's popular is ExifTool by Phil Harvey again Freeware.

As suggested it is worthwhile using the cameras on default setting for JPG -
and any reproducible setting that's meaningful/make sense to you -
after all they are your tests!

I look forward to your default JPG shots.

Thank you for the effort.
You are welcome =) are there any good pef to dng format conversion tools? Ill look at them when I get home. pentaxforum mobile is quite awesome =)
10-27-2009, 01:05 PM   #23
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Thank you very much for the comparison. Adobe provides a free converter to DNG that works quickly and easily:

Adobe - Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter : For Windows

10-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz-0 Quote
If one is going to be a jerk about it, it also helps to be correct. The mathematical limit for aps-c is about f16, not f11. But the lens and sensor geometry will impact that.
Check photozone.de tests and contact with Klaus. I say about real photos, not about mathematical. Yes, you can make photos with aperture F16, but the resolution will be lower than at opened apertures. The diffration starts from f11 at Pentax APS-C cameras - depending on lenses, of course. Anyway, the most lenses has resolution below 10 MP (approx. 8) at f11 in photozone tests. To use F16 or F22 are no good to estimate the resolution of system.

Last edited by ogl; 10-27-2009 at 09:24 PM.
10-27-2009, 09:18 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daemos Quote

I'm going to try to retake the pictures with an f/5.6
Dear Daemos, no need to retest all photos.
Just at ISO100 and 1600 to compare resolution. maybe use 24-35 mm @5.6 instead of 50?

Last edited by ogl; 10-27-2009 at 09:45 PM.
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