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12-03-2009, 08:33 PM   #226
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I'd be interested in seeing if the firmware has also changed the EXIF output battery information.

Wonder if this also improves performance of those who seemingly had good battery performance before the firmware update.

12-03-2009, 08:54 PM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
Wonder if this also improves performance of those who seemingly had good battery performance before the firmware update.
For those batteries the camera recognized as NiMH, probably not. When such batteries were "depleted" they were pretty throughly drained.

Of course, it will help in the sense that the camera will recognize a wider variety of NiMH and you won't suddenly be left with a slightly less than perfect battery set that the camera refuses to work with.
12-04-2009, 12:22 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
I am still on Firmware version 1.00 -
I'll report the final shot count.
Shot count to camera shutdown = 1,295.

remaining capacity
1, 24, 23, 23 mAh

Kx shutdown right after this shot -
12-04-2009, 01:39 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Shot count to camera shutdown = 1,295.
Wow. eneloops ftw!

I presume this also wasn't just under 'lab conditions' where you just sat it on a bench and pressed the shutter repeatedly, but reflected real-world conditions involving metering, auto-focus, some rear display usage etc.

12-04-2009, 06:03 AM   #230
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I tested three sets of batteries and two firmware versions using the following protocol: take 12 minutes video, turn off or let camera hibernate for at least 12 minutes (sometimes hours or overnight), and repeat until camera shuts down by itself. Wait a short while. Turn camera on again and take flash shots in low speed continuous mode until camera shuts down. Wait a short while, turn camera on again and take photos without flash in low speed continuous mode until camera shuts down. Repeat the latter until the number of shots per "session" is less than ten. The goals of this protocol were to deplete the batteries as fast as possible with the least effort on my part and drain them to a similar level near their limit.

FW1.00 Powerex 2700 mAh: 153 minutes 25 seconds video, 65 flash shots, 856 noflash shots.
FW1.00 Rayovac 2000 mAh: 9 minutes 45 seconds video, 0 flash shots, 38 noflash shots.
FW1.01 Energizer 1850 mAh: 99 minutes 23 seconds video, 213 flash shots, 30 noflash shots.

After the tests, the Powerex and Energizer batteries were completely exhausted while the Rayovacs still had a lot of charge remaining.

The Energizer batteries are significantly poorer batteries than the Rayovacs (lower capacity, higher internal resistance (see post 220 above)).

The performance of the Energizers compared to the Powerexes is about what you'd expect given the difference in their capacities.

The new firmware has fixed this battery issue.
12-04-2009, 10:56 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Wow. eneloops ftw!
I presume this also wasn't just under 'lab conditions' where you just sat it on a bench and pressed the shutter repeatedly, but reflected real-world conditions involving metering, auto-focus, some rear display usage etc.
These were actually "Duraloops" - ie: made in Japan white-top Duracell Pre-Charged (see Post #223 above) which are confirmed re-badged eneloops.

The majority were under my actual shooting conditions (but there probably was still some playing around at the beginning of this set of batteries)
eg: on Wed and Thurs (Dec/2-3) I shot 3 bands per night at two different venues.

I went a bit overboard on the first night because I was just so pleased with the Kx.

I use AF-S - but the focusing under the conditions was so good/fast that I could central spot focus on face re-compose and shoot really fast that I was able to get a number of shots before the lights changed - so I was doing that a lot.

Whereas yesterday, I still took a lot of photos - but they were relatively speaking more considered where I was waiting more for the right post/expression before shooting.
However I was still cognizant of the changing lighting and waited for the right lights - then tried to get as many "good" poses/expressions during the good light - so somewhat more moderated.

All these were no flash, 1 second review, on "P" with Auto ISO (200-3200) and AWB (set to strong tungsten correction)
(earlier shots from this set of batteries had flash usage at about 30-50% for those shots, so overall some but not many flash shots):



rest of photos - link to first shot (17 shots, navigate forwards from there) -
Picasa Web Albums - UnknownVincent - Col Bruce





album (all photos):
Picasa Web Albums - UnknownVincent - Derek Trucks

shots have EXIF re-attached
12-04-2009, 01:02 PM   #232
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Nice shots and thanks for the real-world battery usage info.

Your shots confirm my own experience of the K-x as a great tool for photographing live music.
12-04-2009, 01:55 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Your shots confirm my own experience of the K-x as a great tool for photographing live music.
Thank you for the kind comments.

The beauty of the Kx is its great performance at high ISO - certainly ISO3200 is more than acceptable.

As mentioned I used AutoISO 200-3200.

I use only the two kit zoom lens 18-55 and 50-200 (see EXIF data) and do my "cropping" by zooming.
Very few of my posted shots are ever cropped (see the original shots by using PhotoMe)-
this is due to my laziness - I want to do the minimal post-processing - so no RAW and careless framing for me - because I more or less know I can use the shots as-is with only slight adjustments in my editor.

Normally I get over 1,000 shots from a set of eneloops in my K100D - which is/was notorious for being battery fussy - that's why I was expecting over 1,000 shots/charge in the Kx. When I "only" got 620 shots (which was still respectable) from my first set I was somewhat disappointed - but then I played with the Kx alot.

Almost 1,300 shots is kind of more like it - although I suspect once I am done playing and just settle into using the Kx - the shot count may actually go up a bit more.

12-05-2009, 12:59 AM   #234
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Go Rayovac!!

After the announcement of the K-x, I got one and then heard all the nightmares about batteries. The first thing I did was search the Forum for a good charger (got the MAHA Powerex MH-C9000) then I looked at batteries. Rayovac Hybrid, Eneloop, Lithium....... Hmmmmmmm...... I found a deal out of Las Vegas for 6 sets of the Rayovcs for $70USD. They came in opened packages, loose, out of the package and looking like they had been through the ringer. I complained to the vendor that the original packaging was compromised, they weren't pre-charged and was then offered a full refund. I decided to give them a chance and use the "break-in" setting on the MH-C9000 and see if I could salvage the bunch. Well, it worked and I have consistently taken over 500 pictures with each set before they go orange on the battery gauge. Video does drain the crap out of them but given a bit of time (I turn the Kx off for 30 seconds) it goes green again. Nature of the NiMh beast I guess.

With the new 1.01 update it's been even better. I can get better than 700 photos from a set of the Rayovac Hybrids before the gauge goes orange and the I just throw them in the charger again. In addition, I don't have to turn the camera off after video or live view.
12-06-2009, 01:40 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Have to be careful here folks.

The Duracell 2650mAh are regular (high capacity) NiMH - without any special LSD (Low Self-Discharge) properties.

It is the Duracell Pre-Charged which are the LSD batteries and they are rated at 2000mAh.

Admittedly it is somewhat confusing - which most battery manufacturers have not made any great effort to differentiate.

The white-top made in Japan Duracell Pre-Charged are the confirmed re-badged eneloops nicknamed "DuraLoops".





12-07-2009, 08:27 PM   #236
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Mysterious battery recovery

UPDATE:

I have noticed a strange battery meter behavior today on my K-x (updated firmware). My Rayovac Hybrids were showing orange yesterday and this morning they were red, which seemed perfectly normal as I have played around with the camera a lot.

So this afternoon I started Video recording because I wanted to see how long it will take to go from red to the "Battery depleted". I recorded 4 videos each about 3 minutes long and the camera just kept going, so I finally gave up trying to drain the batteries this way.

After I had transferred the videos to the computer I put the flash card back in the K-x ( maybe 10 minutes later) turned it on and the battery meter shows green! Very strange.
12-07-2009, 08:45 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by HogRider Quote
UPDATE:

I have noticed a strange battery meter behavior today on my K-x (updated firmware). My Rayovac Hybrids were showing orange yesterday and this morning they were red, which seemed perfectly normal as I have played around with the camera a lot.

So this afternoon I started Video recording because I wanted to see how long it will take to go from red to the "Battery depleted". I recorded 4 videos each about 3 minutes long and the camera just kept going, so I finally gave up trying to drain the batteries this way.

After I had transferred the videos to the computer I put the flash card back in the K-x ( maybe 10 minutes later) turned it on and the battery meter shows green! Very strange.
sweet! self-recharging batteries! i have some of the rayovacs on the way, nice
12-07-2009, 09:15 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by HogRider Quote
After I had transferred the videos to the computer I put the flash card back in the K-x ( maybe 10 minutes later) turned it on and the battery meter shows green! Very strange.
12-08-2009, 10:17 AM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by HogRider Quote
I have noticed a strange battery meter behavior today on my K-x (updated firmware). My Rayovac Hybrids were showing orange yesterday and this morning they were red, which seemed perfectly normal as I have played around with the camera a lot.

So this afternoon I started Video recording because I wanted to see how long it will take to go from red to the "Battery depleted". I recorded 4 videos each about 3 minutes long and the camera just kept going, so I finally gave up trying to drain the batteries this way.

After I had transferred the videos to the computer I put the flash card back in the K-x ( maybe 10 minutes later) turned it on and the battery meter shows green! Very strange.
OK - I do not know for sure -
but here's a bit of guesswork/speculation.

Are you by any chance on Auto-Detect, rather than NiMH for the battery type?

If so, then perhaps Pentax are still using basically voltage level to "detect" the battery type.

The problem then is a freshly charged NiMH can be as high as 1.48V - which may be hard to say which type of battery it is for sure - eg: it could well be an alkaline - when the initial voltage drops to more normal NiMH levels - then detection thinks it's an alkaline running down so starts to show orange and then red "prematurely" for the battery type you are actually using? - although in reality the RoV Hybrids are now maintaining its voltage quite well so that's why the Kx did not shutdown.

But when you removed the SD card - which might be regarded by Pentax like a fresh start - akin to reinserting batteries - the voltage level may then be closer to 1.30V or so - so that it is now detected as NiMH, hence the bounce back to green

So perhaps Pentax have not yet quite sorted out its Auto-Detect algorithm - but has improved other aspects of battery level algorithm.

There obviously is a more reliable way of detecting the battery type - take for example most good intelligent/smart chargers - like say the Maha C9000 - it detects when an alkaline is inserted instead of NiMH - and it does it without fail since that is an important safety aspect (charging alkalines at higher current rates can be very dangerous).

Perhaps if Pentax would take the "default" battery type as NiMH - then detect for deviations from NiMH in their auto-detect - using commonly available/used algorithms built into charging chips -
then that may solve this strange issue and make Auito-Detect even more reliable?

Maybe Firmware 1.01 might not be the final one, and there could be an 1.02 to address the battery type detection?

Bear in mind this is all just speculation/guesswork on my part -
kinda just thinking out loud.....

Last edited by UnknownVT; 12-08-2009 at 10:23 AM.
12-08-2009, 12:19 PM   #240
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Interesting. Yes I have set it to Auto Detect. I just checked and it was green when I turned it on.
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