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11-13-2009, 06:48 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
My point is that you are spreading misinformation. You state that the Pentax number of 640 exposures is a pessimistic guess, but it is the other way around. The CIPA standard is an optimistic estimate, not the normal behavior of most users.

When you get 350 exposures in normal usage with some LV, video and viewing your images than that is a match with the 640 exposure CIPA specification. You may state otherwise but that's based on nothing, so there is indeed no reason for me to discuss this with you any further.
we shouldn't get angry at each other: here we are trying to help each other.
Actually the CIPA ratings for the K-x with 1900mAh Ni-Mh are 420 shots, while 640 are for "normal use" which is Pentax's own measurement. Do we have different user manuals?

Still, as I already said, I reached 350 shots with an old set of 2500mAh Uniross (the only cells working in my K-x), which is perfectly acceptable.
What it's not acceptable is that I reach only a few tens of shots with brand new 2700mAh GP batteries or my otherwise very powerful (and almost new) 2600mAh Panasonic or 2500mAh Sony CycleEnergy (hybrid, by the way).
Then, there are people reaching 1000+ shots with Eneloops, and other ones not having luck even with Eneloop.

Peace.


Last edited by noou; 11-13-2009 at 07:05 AM. Reason: spreading peace and love
11-13-2009, 06:57 AM   #107
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Uniross Hybrio anybody?

does anybody have experience with Uniross Hybrio? just asking because a nearby shop sells them for 9 euro, while for Eneloop I would have to buy them online...
thanks
11-13-2009, 07:28 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomtor Quote
I wonder what the results are with batteries which never give green or yellow status after being inserted in a K-X, I assume much lower voltages.
I did a deep cycle (complete discharge followed by recharge) of my ancient non-LSD 2100 mAh batteries. Waited a minute after inserting. First power on: Nothing. Second power on: red indicator. LV: red indicator. (Prior to the deep cycle these batteries couldn't get the camera to turn on at all.)

Discharging into 3.3 ohms: 1.33 volts * 4.
Discharging into 1.00 ohms: 1.18, 1.18, 1.17, and 1.16 volts.

(These were "quick" reads. I could see the millivolts gradually going down.)

These readings are consistent with the slightly discharged Duracells above, which also could only manage to get a red indicator.

I fully charged the 2650 mAh Duracells again and immediately measured their discharge voltages:

Discharging into 3.3 ohms: 1.37 volts * 4
Discharging into 1.0 ohms: 1.29, 1.28, 1.28, and 1.27 volts.

Placed into camera, waited a minute, turned on: green battery indicator.

Last edited by OutOfFocus; 11-13-2009 at 07:31 AM. Reason: clarify capacity of Duracells
11-13-2009, 07:37 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by noou Quote
What it's not acceptable is that I reach only a few tens of shots with brand new 2700mAh GP batteries or my otherwise very powerful (and almost new) 2600mAh Panasonic or 2500mAh Sony CycleEnergy (hybrid, by the way).
Try deep cycling them one or two times. Sometimes it takes a few cycles to get new cells into tip-top shape.

11-13-2009, 08:33 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by OutOfFocus Quote
Try deep cycling them one or two times. Sometimes it takes a few cycles to get new cells into tip-top shape.
I'm already trying that, thanks. It seems to slightly improve the performance of my new GP cells. I'll let you know in quantitative terms soon.
Anyway, when discharging them with my Sony BCG-34HRMF4 I found them to be more than half charged, even if the K-x displayed them as depleted.

On the other hand, my Panasonics didn't do well even after a couple of charge discharge cycles. Still they do VERY well with my P&S.
11-13-2009, 01:10 PM   #111
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Posting serial number for defective unit

#3460385
Lithium
yellow when heavy use (live view, HDR, filters)
have to swich live view off and on which seems to bring back the green
Nmh
Would not take Radio Shack rechargeable Nmh batteries freshly charged.

Love the camera but this needs to be corrected
fantastic Iso pictures
fantastic features - love the HDR and filters

But love, hate, is not the kind of relationship that I intend to have with this camera!
11-13-2009, 10:01 PM   #112
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I just discovered this thread so I'll try to add a bit and hope it isn't redundant.

My K-x is serial #3430257 and I've had no problems with eneloop batteries. In fact in my last astrophotography outing I got over two hours of constant exposure time (30s exposures without interruption) and the battery indicator was still green at the end.

I can't say the same when using NiMH batteries. I have one set of 2900mAh that are brand new that won't even power the camera up. I've had the same experience with my K-m and K200D as well so I don't think this is anything new with the K-x except it is now even more particular with the LV and video modes that draw even more current.

From what I can tell the LSD batteries will hold their voltage just a bit better even though the other NiMH types may provide more current but is worthless to the K-x that needs a minimum operating voltage.

Using a good battery conditioner/charger helps them prevent the voltage from fading over time. I know some people here already have touched on this but I really think it is important to keep in mind as I don't think this is anything new with Pentax. At least that is my experience anway.
11-13-2009, 10:49 PM   #113
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ive taken approx. 300 photos with heavy use of the menu and light use of LV and movie mode. still showing green with the LSD that came with the camera. i will test out my new eneloops once the lithiums die.

in researching a good battery and in purchasing the eneloops, i saw a NiZn (nickel zinc) battery which had some claims of higher voltage 1.6v and i think 2700mAh.

has anyone tried this type of battery before? would the higher voltage be good or detrimental?

11-14-2009, 12:03 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwaalude Quote
ive taken approx. 300 photos with heavy use of the menu and light use of LV and movie mode. still showing green with the LSD that came with the camera. i will test out my new eneloops once the lithiums die.

in researching a good battery and in purchasing the eneloops, i saw a NiZn (nickel zinc) battery which had some claims of higher voltage 1.6v and i think 2700mAh.

has anyone tried this type of battery before? would the higher voltage be good or detrimental?
There are reports of some people using them. The drawback with NiZn is a higher self discharge rate, so if you leave your camera on the shelf for eg 6 weeks you'll have lost quite some battery capacity.

I don't know of anybody who has run side by side tests but expect a similar performance (number of images) as with the good working NiMhs like Eneloops. Edit: as you already have eneloops you could be the first :-)

Note that you'll also need the bundled charger, so if you already have a good NiMh charger than it is less interesting. If you buy a set of batteries (you'll need two sets to be always ready to shoot) especially for the K-X, then the NiZn is certainly an option.
11-14-2009, 02:08 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwaalude Quote
in researching a good battery and in purchasing the eneloops, i saw a NiZn (nickel zinc) battery which had some claims of higher voltage 1.6v and i think 2700mAh.

has anyone tried this type of battery before? would the higher voltage be good or detrimental?
not owning good hybrid batteries i'm also tempted by Ni-Zn... however i'm afraid of the extra 0.4V ...or maybe the extra voltage wouldn't be there anymore when under load? if i remember correctly the Ni-Mh specs of 1.2V refer to the batteries under load, while the 1.5V of AA alkalines consider them without load. I don't know about Ni-Zn (or lithium) cells...
Anyway, afaik Pentax don't support them officially, and i think such "misutilization" would void the warranty.
11-14-2009, 03:22 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by noou Quote
I'm already trying that, thanks. It seems to slightly improve the performance of my new GP cells. I'll let you know in quantitative terms soon.
Anyway, when discharging them with my Sony BCG-34HRMF4 I found them to be more than half charged, even if the K-x displayed them as depleted.

On the other hand, my Panasonics didn't do well even after a couple of charge discharge cycles. Still they do VERY well with my P&S.
no way: despite getting green battery as soon as I inserted them, still I can only shot 15 photos after 3 charge/discharge cycles.

btw, yesterday Pentax Italia communicated this (in Italian, but google translate seems to work pretty well on it) to Italian dealers:
Elenchiamo di seguito alcune cause e relativi modi per risolvere l'inconveniente che ci sono stati indicati dal reparto tecnico di Pentax.
Vi preghiamo di voler condividere le informazioni con i Vs. clienti quando necessario.

1. La K-x ha la caratteristica tecnica di memorizzare il tipo di batterie utilizzate.
Quando vengono installate le batterie la K-x ne controlla il voltaggio e rileva il tipo.
Il tipo di batteria viene memorizzato nella fotocamera.
Per cancellare il tipo di batteria memorizzato, è necessario lasciare la fotocamera senza batteria per almeno un minuto.
Quando si sostituiscono le batterie con tipi differenti è consigliabile attendere almeno un minuto prima di
installare le nuove (o completamente ricaricate) batterie.

2. Alcune batterie ricaricabili Ni-MH hanno la caratteristica di non sviluppare la piena potenza quando sono
messe in carica per la prima volta.
Di conseguenza la K-x non riesce a rilevare e scegliere il giusto tipo di batteria.
In questo caso si consiglia di scaricare e ricaricare la batterie alcune volte in modo di attivarne la piena carica.

3. L'indicatore di carica delle batterie indica batterie scariche oppure l'apparecchio non si accende al primo tentativo
ma soltanto spegnendo e riaccendendo la fotocamera.
Ci sono numerosi tipi di batterie AA sul mercato di qualità ben differenti, quindi in conseguenza al tempo impiegato
dall'apparecchio a determinare il tipo e lo stato delle batterie si può verificare questo inconveniente.
Il consiglio è di spegnere e riaccendere la fotocamera due o più volte.

Al fine di accelerare il riconoscimento del tipo di batterie e
nel caso in cui si utilizzi sempre lo stesso tipo di batterie è consigliabile impostare
manualmente dal menù della K-x il tipo di batterie utilizzato come indicato a
pagina 272-273 del manuale di istruzioni.

La raccomandazione generale è comunque di utilizzare possibilmente batterie ricaricabili e sempre di buona qualità.
Il nostro laboratorio L.T.R. ha effettuato alcuni test su apparecchi nuovi di magazzino ed anche su apparecchi rientrati
a causa di questi inconvenienti, ma utilizzando batterie di buona qualità non abbiamo rilevato alcun mal funzionamento
anzi, in alcuni casi il numero di scatti effettuati è stato superiore a quelli dichiarati sul manuale di istruzioni dell'apparecchio
no big news, eh? and not really of help! everyone brings grist to his mill...
especially the last paragraph drives me crazy: summarizing my experience, i tried 3 chargers and 4 sets of rechargeable batteries (all of them being supposedly high quality brands), 3 normal Ni-Mh and 1 hybrid. Only the oldest and usually less performing of them works in a reasonable way.
Now the question is: do I have to invest in new cells (again...), hybrid this time, or is my K-x faulty?
11-14-2009, 03:26 AM   #117
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Yes, I have NiZn Batteries in My K-x

QuoteOriginally posted by kwaalude Quote
ive taken approx. 300 photos with heavy use of the menu and light use of LV and movie mode. still showing green with the LSD that came with the camera. i will test out my new eneloops once the lithiums die.

in researching a good battery and in purchasing the eneloops, i saw a NiZn (nickel zinc) battery which had some claims of higher voltage 1.6v and i think 2700mAh.

has anyone tried this type of battery before? would the higher voltage be good or detrimental?
I was having LOTS of trouble finding a rechargeable NiMh that worked, so I bought NiZn's. After charging and putting them in my K-x, power light went to green right away and I was good to go.

You WILL need another charger made for these batteries as these are high volt.


wll
11-14-2009, 05:01 AM   #118
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Uniross again (non hybrid)

I'm testing a second set of 2500mAh Uniross borrowed from the office, and they seem to work pretty well (already 30 shots and still green battery... almost a record). I'll let you know...
It seems my K-x only likes Uniross rechargeables, at least among non-hybrid batteries.
11-14-2009, 05:38 AM   #119
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Tabulating charger info?

One variable that we aren't looking at systematically is the (type of) battery charger used.

Chargers can be classified as slow (timed, 16 hr charge), quick/rapid (3-6 hrs), or fast (< 2 hrs). Also, some can charge any number of cells (individual circuits), while others can only charge either 2 or 4 cells (paired).

I use a fast, individual circuit charger and can successfully power my K-x with a range of batteries.

I notice that some of the people reporting major difficulties are using paired quick/rapid chargers. While these might work OK in the short term, I think long term use can degrade cells leading to high internal resistance. Two issues. First, in a paired charger, one cell will be under-charged, one cell will be over-charged, or both. Second, in a rapid charger, it's relatively easy to miss the dV signal when the cell is charged, and the high charge current is enough to degrade the cells over time.
11-14-2009, 05:50 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by noou Quote
I'm testing a second set of 2500mAh Uniross borrowed from the office, and they seem to work pretty well (already 30 shots and still green battery... almost a record). I'll let you know...
It seems my K-x only likes Uniross rechargeables, at least among non-hybrid batteries.
If you encounter them, the Varta 2500mAhs also work for most of the K-X users.
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