K-x owners: NiMH batteries results please

Conan · 11-23-2009, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by OutOfFocus

I filled my K-x with some fully charged Rayovac IC3 2000 mAh non-LSD batteries. Initially they indicated green, but after a short while (too short) they indicated orange. I took them out and measured their voltages under various loads as reported in the table below. To conserve space, I report the average voltage across the 4 cells. The maximum difference between the cells was 34 mV under the highest load. The voltages are measured. The currents are calculated using I=V/R.

Code:

Ohms  Volts  Amps
Open   1.45   N/A
3.3    1.40   0.42
0.77   1.27   1.6
0.43   1.17   2.7

They look like mighty fine voltages to me. The K-x is being mighty fussy to call them orange.

That 1.17 cell is just about dead!

ea77 · 11-23-2009, 09:52 AM

usual i lurk on the forums unless I have something to contribute.

WORKAROUND ***Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body at the bottom left, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turns on. Experienced non turn on with GP Recyko AA batteries. ***

today i decided to sign up because I wanted to write about my experience and let others know this is a REAL PROBLEM with the camera. Pentax should acknowledge and address this as soon as possible.

Holiday season is here and people are going to spend their money. Q4 is when consumer electronics companies make the most money. Pentax don't hurt your sales with this issue.

This is my first Pentax camera. I'm not a newcomer to photography. I'm not a fanboy of any type. I buy what will be the most suitable equipment for what I intend to do for a reasonable cost. My expectation is the body will have all modern desirable features, small compact body, outstanding image quality, excellent performance, last me for 1.5years.

I know the Pentax brand. I've been watching the development of Pentax in the digital realm. This particular model, K-X is impressive for the price. Amazing value in today's market.

I bought the camera 2nd week it was released. I used the included Energizer Lithiums then went though using Sanyo 2700mah NiMH batteries all on Auto mode successfully and with great life. Over 1000 shots with mixed live view with the Energizer Lithiums about half of that with Sanyo 2700 NimH.

I use my Sanyo 2700niMH in another application, so I looked around the house found some Rayovac IC3s, 2000mAH and 2300 mAH sets and the camera didn't turn on??!

I was like what the heck... started searching online and realized others are in the same boat having the same problem of the camera refusing to TURN ON!

Now those aren't the best conditioned batteries a few years old, I used the Rayovac IC3 15 charger for those.

The highlight point of AA batteries were "convenience" and when people here are talking about discharging, charging, procedure this doesn't sound like convenience!!

Two days ago I bought new 4 AA GP Recyko batteries, combining alkaline advantages in a rechargable battery. GP ReCyko
Suppose to come 85% charged. Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON.

I read somewhere on the forums to remove the lens for a manual lens trick?

Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turned on.

I charged the GP Recyko batteries overnight and will do some testing today, if it doesn't last at least at a reasonable amount of time guessing about 300 shots with 3 sec review on them then I may, buy some Sanyo Eneloops.

I really hope Pentax can get to the bottom of this. Root cause the problem, then address in a timely manner.

I agree this can be hardware, and or firmware. I work as a hardware engineer for a living.

SteveB · 11-23-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Conan

That 1.17 cell is just about dead!

That's under heavy load and is good I would say. Not too dissimilar to some measurements I took of new Eneloops 1 day after charging and better than most NiMh. Look at some discharge curves, specifically the 3A ones.........

NiMh Battery Shoot Out - CandlePowerForums

OutOfFocus · 11-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Conan

That 1.17 cell is just about dead!

Apologies, but you're misreading the table. That's the average voltage of the 4 cells when they are each connected to a 0.43 ohm load and thus delivering about a 2.7 amp current. Some voltage droop at that kind of load is to be expected.

OutOfFocus · 11-23-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by ea77

Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON.

I see this a lot too. For me, I just turn the camera off and then on again and the camera turns on. Green battery indicator and all (if the battery is charged enough). It's kind of weird.

Eruditass · 11-23-2009, 11:58 AM

AF/MF flip now? interesting.. any more results welcome.

TimothyB · 11-23-2009, 04:59 PM

Okay, got to finally test some Eneloops in my K-x. The batteries were charged after opening the package.

I'd say over 3 days:

Roughly 490 shots, give or take,
With 25 minutes of video with SR (but a total of 44 video files, don't know what would happen if you just tried to record that much in one go) Also, once or twice I forgot to take off video mode, so it might have been stuck on live view with SR for 5 minutes.

There were times where after a while on video, the battery would go yellow, but sometimes back to green in the middle of recording. Or often back to green for photos or after off for a minute.

Never once did it mysteriously die in video mode like several times with the supplied ultimate lithium that were still green for photos.

On the third day, using the eneloops, the battery finally showed empty. So it wasn't going to be a surprise, I knew it was going to die soon with video. When the battery finally died during a recording, that's when I switched to a fresh set of eneloops.

It's possible I could of let the batteries sit for a while and take many more photos, but I wanted the ability to take video at a moments notice.

So I'm pleased with the performance.

EDIT: As a reminder from an older post. The Eneloops out of the package wouldn't even turn on the camera, even on auto battery. They are suppose to be precharged to some extent. I charged both sets of eneloops and then both had no trouble turning on with full battery.

ea77 · 11-23-2009, 05:01 PM

So I tried the GP recyko batteries fresh from a 10hr charge. They were warm to the touch coming from the charge. The camera lasted for about 25 shots outdoors. Camera was set with 1sec view after shot, no flash, shot about 3 10sec clips and the batteries drained and rec'd the battery depleted message. This is obviously unacceptable.

I put in a newly opened package of Duracell Eneloop white top batteries. The camera powered on but shortly died taking 2 shots. I have these on the charger and will retry them tomorrow.

Fed up I exchanged the Pentax K-X body serial no 343393xxxxxxx

With 343543xxxxxxx
I tried the GP Recyko batteries again, the meter shows full on a new body. Will do more testing tomorrow during the day.

The store had 2 bodies, both 343 serial no

I brought my GP Recyko batteries.

Put it into the first body. Did not turn on at first. Second time turning on it did. My eyes this FAILED

Put it into the second body. The camera turned on. This PASSED.

So I exchanged my.camera with the second body. The camera meter shows full green and turns on reliably every single time!

I will do some testing with the replacement body tomorrow

If it works with these GP Recyko then there was a hardware problem with the camera body.

If it doesn't work with GP Recyko then the problem is still present and I'll go back to the drawing board trying to figure if a firmware change/body replacement/battery replacement will fix.

Wish me luck

twitch · 11-23-2009, 05:09 PM

I bought new eneloops, straight out of the packet into the camera. Fired up first time. I've got about 400 shots so far, plus lots of fiddling around in menus, and still shows full green. Very happy so far

Eruditass · 11-23-2009, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by ea77

usual i lurk on the forums unless I have something to contribute.

WORKAROUND ***Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body at the bottom left, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turns on. Experienced non turn on with GP Recyko AA batteries. ***

today i decided to sign up because I wanted to write about my experience and let others know this is a REAL PROBLEM with the camera. Pentax should acknowledge and address this as soon as possible.

Holiday season is here and people are going to spend their money. Q4 is when consumer electronics companies make the most money. Pentax don't hurt your sales with this issue.

This is my first Pentax camera. I'm not a newcomer to photography. I'm not a fanboy of any type. I buy what will be the most suitable equipment for what I intend to do for a reasonable cost. My expectation is the body will have all modern desirable features, small compact body, outstanding image quality, excellent performance, last me for 1.5years.

I know the Pentax brand. I've been watching the development of Pentax in the digital realm. This particular model, K-X is impressive for the price. Amazing value in today's market.

I bought the camera 2nd week it was released. I used the included Energizer Lithiums then went though using Sanyo 2700mah NiMH batteries all on Auto mode successfully and with great life. Over 1000 shots with mixed live view with the Energizer Lithiums about half of that with Sanyo 2700 NimH.

I use my Sanyo 2700niMH in another application, so I looked around the house found some Rayovac IC3s, 2000mAH and 2300 mAH sets and the camera didn't turn on??!

I was like what the heck... started searching online and realized others are in the same boat having the same problem of the camera refusing to TURN ON!

Now those aren't the best conditioned batteries a few years old, I used the Rayovac IC3 15 charger for those.

The highlight point of AA batteries were "convenience" and when people here are talking about discharging, charging, procedure this doesn't sound like convenience!!

Two days ago I bought new 4 AA GP Recyko batteries, combining alkaline advantages in a rechargable battery. GP ReCyko
Suppose to come 85% charged. Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON.

I read somewhere on the forums to remove the lens for a manual lens trick?

Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turned on.

I charged the GP Recyko batteries overnight and will do some testing today, if it doesn't last at least at a reasonable amount of time guessing about 300 shots with 3 sec review on them then I may, buy some Sanyo Eneloops.

I really hope Pentax can get to the bottom of this. Root cause the problem, then address in a timely manner.

I agree this can be hardware, and or firmware. I work as a hardware engineer for a living.

I've verified now that the AF/MF switch does effect or cause the firmware to do some kind of re-calculation of the battery status.

I did it when it was on and in LiveView, doing several tests with various time waiting before hitting MF/AF. Sometimes it goes to green from orange by itself, but most of the time it does it right when I switch to MF.

Hopefully the Pentax address will be soon.

ea77 · 11-23-2009, 07:07 PM

Well I did some prelim testing with my replacement body and low and behold everything is a-ok, no more problems turning on the camera.

I even used the GP recyko aa batteries that were close to 30 shots used, put them in the replacement body and guess what the battery indicator is green and full.

I'm blasting away enjoying the camera as I should be. Over 30 shots on the new body throwing on live view capturing movies.

*** The root cause of my issue was with the body. It was defective. ***

Why I say the body because both bodies used the same firmware, and I used the same gp recyko batteries. Only thing change was a switch of the camera body.

I didn't need to fool around with battery cycling or MF/AF switches, or removal of lenses. Just turn on the camera and shoot.

I have further tested by switching the batteries between my duracell eneloop and gp recyko and turning on and shooting without any wacky drainage of the meter. Even 10 flash shots in a row.

Originally posted by Eruditass

I've verified now that the AF/MF switch does effect or cause the firmware to do some kind of re-calculation of the battery status.

I did it when it was on and in LiveView, doing several tests with various time waiting before hitting MF/AF. Sometimes it goes to green from orange by itself, but most of the time it does it right when I switch to MF.

Hopefully the Pentax address will be soon.

noou · 11-24-2009, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by ea77

Well I did some prelim testing with my replacement body and low and behold everything is a-ok, no more problems turning on the camera.

I even used the GP recyko aa batteries that were close to 30 shots used, put them in the replacement body and guess what the battery indicator is green and full.

I'm blasting away enjoying the camera as I should be. Over 30 shots on the new body throwing on live view capturing movies.

*** The root cause of my issue was with the body. It was defective. ***

Why I say the body because both bodies used the same firmware, and I used the same gp recyko batteries. Only thing change was a switch of the camera body.

I didn't need to fool around with battery cycling or MF/AF switches, or removal of lenses. Just turn on the camera and shoot.

I have further tested by switching the batteries between my duracell eneloop and gp recyko and turning on and shooting without any wacky drainage of the meter. Even 10 flash shots in a row.

thanks for your report, very interesting. Trying the same batteries in two different bodies is something I was looking forward to.
The sad side of the thing is that, as you said, this means that the problem is most probably hardware-related... Of course the circuits in different bodies can differ a little, but this behavior is for sure beyond an acceptable margin.
Do I (and many others) need to send my K-x's for servicing? Unfortunately, my body is almost 1 month old and I cannot ask for a replacement.

ea77 · 11-24-2009, 12:07 PM

noou,

no problem you're welcome.

as a big corp. such as Pentax and having a mass produced product there is going to be a percentage of failure. that's just a fact. whatever percentage deemed acceptable is entirely up to the company. my opinion should not exceed 5%

i could not root cause the problem, not worth my time i'm not getting paid for it.

we can speculate why but that's causing misinformation..

the problem was with the body in my case.

if you're battery meter is unreliable and you've tried with new, newly charged cells that are reported to work (GP Recyko and Sanyo Eneloops) then I would exchange the body.

That's giving Pentax a fair shot to work, don't use crappy used up cells found in your grand mother's dresser drawer and expect the camera to work. Though the AA battery design is of convenience it is taking a risk, leaving it up to consumers to choose the batteries. Pentax did include the Energizer Lithiums because they knew it'd work.

I heard some reports of european version of the K-X coming with Eneloops, so why risk anything else just buy the Eneloops. Remember the cost of 4 AA Eneloops cost less than buying a one Lithium battery pack from the manufacturer.

Good luck

Eruditass · 11-24-2009, 12:23 PM

As stated before, the problem still may be firmware not taking into account the hardware variances and tolerances. Especially the voltage readers would have tolerances that would directly relate to this, at least with my experience in monitoring circuits.

ea77 · 11-24-2009, 01:01 PM

The problem lies in the hardware.

I tested with two bodies, same firmware 1.0, same batteries. One behaves badly - inaccurate battery meter and one behaves accurately.

Agreed this may be corrected in firmware. But 'when' if this going to happen..

You have to ask yourself do you have patience to wait? I didn't. I find it unacceptable, exchanged it and now happy.

11-23-2009, 08:48 AM	#166
Conan Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Philippines Posts: 99	Originally posted by OutOfFocus I filled my K-x with some fully charged Rayovac IC3 2000 mAh non-LSD batteries. Initially they indicated green, but after a short while (too short) they indicated orange. I took them out and measured their voltages under various loads as reported in the table below. To conserve space, I report the average voltage across the 4 cells. The maximum difference between the cells was 34 mV under the highest load. The voltages are measured. The currents are calculated using I=V/R. *Code:* Ohms Volts Amps Open 1.45 N/A 3.3 1.40 0.42 0.77 1.27 1.6 0.43 1.17 2.7 They look like mighty fine voltages to me. The K-x is being mighty fussy to call them orange. That 1.17 cell is just about dead!

11-23-2009, 09:52 AM	#167
ea77 New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	workaround, flip MF mode then AF mode usual i lurk on the forums unless I have something to contribute. WORKAROUND *Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body at the bottom left, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turns on. Experienced non turn on with GP Recyko AA batteries. * today i decided to sign up because I wanted to write about my experience and let others know this is a REAL PROBLEM with the camera. Pentax should acknowledge and address this as soon as possible. Holiday season is here and people are going to spend their money. Q4 is when consumer electronics companies make the most money. Pentax don't hurt your sales with this issue. This is my first Pentax camera. I'm not a newcomer to photography. I'm not a fanboy of any type. I buy what will be the most suitable equipment for what I intend to do for a reasonable cost. My expectation is the body will have all modern desirable features, small compact body, outstanding image quality, excellent performance, last me for 1.5years. I know the Pentax brand. I've been watching the development of Pentax in the digital realm. This particular model, K-X is impressive for the price. Amazing value in today's market. I bought the camera 2nd week it was released. I used the included Energizer Lithiums then went though using Sanyo 2700mah NiMH batteries all on Auto mode successfully and with great life. Over 1000 shots with mixed live view with the Energizer Lithiums about half of that with Sanyo 2700 NimH. I use my Sanyo 2700niMH in another application, so I looked around the house found some Rayovac IC3s, 2000mAH and 2300 mAH sets and the camera didn't turn on??! I was like what the heck... started searching online and realized others are in the same boat having the same problem of the camera refusing to TURN ON! Now those aren't the best conditioned batteries a few years old, I used the Rayovac IC3 15 charger for those. The highlight point of AA batteries were "convenience" and when people here are talking about discharging, charging, procedure this doesn't sound like convenience!! Two days ago I bought new 4 AA GP Recyko batteries, combining alkaline advantages in a rechargable battery. GP ReCyko Suppose to come 85% charged. Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON. I read somewhere on the forums to remove the lens for a manual lens trick? Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turned on. I charged the GP Recyko batteries overnight and will do some testing today, if it doesn't last at least at a reasonable amount of time guessing about 300 shots with 3 sec review on them then I may, buy some Sanyo Eneloops. I really hope Pentax can get to the bottom of this. Root cause the problem, then address in a timely manner. I agree this can be hardware, and or firmware. I work as a hardware engineer for a living.

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11-23-2009, 11:42 AM	#168
SteveB Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: U.K. Posts: 685	Originally posted by Conan That 1.17 cell is just about dead! That's under heavy load and is good I would say. Not too dissimilar to some measurements I took of new Eneloops 1 day after charging and better than most NiMh. Look at some discharge curves, specifically the 3A ones......... NiMh Battery Shoot Out - CandlePowerForums

11-23-2009, 11:45 AM	#169
OutOfFocus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 140	Originally posted by Conan That 1.17 cell is just about dead! Apologies, but you're misreading the table. That's the average voltage of the 4 cells when they are each connected to a 0.43 ohm load and thus delivering about a 2.7 amp current. Some voltage droop at that kind of load is to be expected.

11-23-2009, 11:51 AM	#170
OutOfFocus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 140	Originally posted by ea77 Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON. I see this a lot too. For me, I just turn the camera off and then on again and the camera turns on. Green battery indicator and all (if the battery is charged enough). It's kind of weird.

11-23-2009, 11:58 AM	#171
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207 Original Poster	AF/MF flip now? interesting.. any more results welcome.

11-23-2009, 04:59 PM	#172
TimothyB Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Posts: 38	Okay, got to finally test some Eneloops in my K-x. The batteries were charged after opening the package. I'd say over 3 days: Roughly 490 shots, give or take, With 25 minutes of video with SR (but a total of 44 video files, don't know what would happen if you just tried to record that much in one go) Also, once or twice I forgot to take off video mode, so it might have been stuck on live view with SR for 5 minutes. There were times where after a while on video, the battery would go yellow, but sometimes back to green in the middle of recording. Or often back to green for photos or after off for a minute. Never once did it mysteriously die in video mode like several times with the supplied ultimate lithium that were still green for photos. On the third day, using the eneloops, the battery finally showed empty. So it wasn't going to be a surprise, I knew it was going to die soon with video. When the battery finally died during a recording, that's when I switched to a fresh set of eneloops. It's possible I could of let the batteries sit for a while and take many more photos, but I wanted the ability to take video at a moments notice. So I'm pleased with the performance. EDIT: As a reminder from an older post. The Eneloops out of the package wouldn't even turn on the camera, even on auto battery. They are suppose to be precharged to some extent. I charged both sets of eneloops and then both had no trouble turning on with full battery.

11-23-2009, 05:01 PM	#173
ea77 New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	So I tried the GP recyko batteries fresh from a 10hr charge. They were warm to the touch coming from the charge. The camera lasted for about 25 shots outdoors. Camera was set with 1sec view after shot, no flash, shot about 3 10sec clips and the batteries drained and rec'd the battery depleted message. This is obviously unacceptable. I put in a newly opened package of Duracell Eneloop white top batteries. The camera powered on but shortly died taking 2 shots. I have these on the charger and will retry them tomorrow. Fed up I exchanged the Pentax K-X body serial no 343393xxxxxxx With 343543xxxxxxx I tried the GP Recyko batteries again, the meter shows full on a new body. Will do more testing tomorrow during the day. The store had 2 bodies, both 343 serial no I brought my GP Recyko batteries. Put it into the first body. Did not turn on at first. Second time turning on it did. My eyes this FAILED Put it into the second body. The camera turned on. This PASSED. So I exchanged my.camera with the second body. The camera meter shows full green and turns on reliably every single time! I will do some testing with the replacement body tomorrow If it works with these GP Recyko then there was a hardware problem with the camera body. If it doesn't work with GP Recyko then the problem is still present and I'll go back to the drawing board trying to figure if a firmware change/body replacement/battery replacement will fix. Wish me luck

11-23-2009, 05:09 PM	#174
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	I bought new eneloops, straight out of the packet into the camera. Fired up first time. I've got about 400 shots so far, plus lots of fiddling around in menus, and still shows full green. Very happy so far

11-23-2009, 05:18 PM	#175
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207 Original Poster	Originally posted by ea77 usual i lurk on the forums unless I have something to contribute. WORKAROUND *Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body at the bottom left, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turns on. Experienced non turn on with GP Recyko AA batteries. * today i decided to sign up because I wanted to write about my experience and let others know this is a REAL PROBLEM with the camera. Pentax should acknowledge and address this as soon as possible. Holiday season is here and people are going to spend their money. Q4 is when consumer electronics companies make the most money. Pentax don't hurt your sales with this issue. This is my first Pentax camera. I'm not a newcomer to photography. I'm not a fanboy of any type. I buy what will be the most suitable equipment for what I intend to do for a reasonable cost. My expectation is the body will have all modern desirable features, small compact body, outstanding image quality, excellent performance, last me for 1.5years. I know the Pentax brand. I've been watching the development of Pentax in the digital realm. This particular model, K-X is impressive for the price. Amazing value in today's market. I bought the camera 2nd week it was released. I used the included Energizer Lithiums then went though using Sanyo 2700mah NiMH batteries all on Auto mode successfully and with great life. Over 1000 shots with mixed live view with the Energizer Lithiums about half of that with Sanyo 2700 NimH. I use my Sanyo 2700niMH in another application, so I looked around the house found some Rayovac IC3s, 2000mAH and 2300 mAH sets and the camera didn't turn on??! I was like what the heck... started searching online and realized others are in the same boat having the same problem of the camera refusing to TURN ON! Now those aren't the best conditioned batteries a few years old, I used the Rayovac IC3 15 charger for those. The highlight point of AA batteries were "convenience" and when people here are talking about discharging, charging, procedure this doesn't sound like convenience!! Two days ago I bought new 4 AA GP Recyko batteries, combining alkaline advantages in a rechargable battery. GP ReCyko Suppose to come 85% charged. Put them in the Pentax K-X, waited a seconds, you can see the IR light turn on the grip, flipped to the on setting, the camera DID NOT turn ON. I read somewhere on the forums to remove the lens for a manual lens trick? Well I discovered my own workaround that did work, on the body, flip to the MF mode switch, from AF mode and then turn on the camera. The camera then turned on. I charged the GP Recyko batteries overnight and will do some testing today, if it doesn't last at least at a reasonable amount of time guessing about 300 shots with 3 sec review on them then I may, buy some Sanyo Eneloops. I really hope Pentax can get to the bottom of this. Root cause the problem, then address in a timely manner. I agree this can be hardware, and or firmware. I work as a hardware engineer for a living. I've verified now that the AF/MF switch does effect or cause the firmware to do some kind of re-calculation of the battery status. I did it when it was on and in LiveView, doing several tests with various time waiting before hitting MF/AF. Sometimes it goes to green from orange by itself, but most of the time it does it right when I switch to MF. Hopefully the Pentax address will be soon.

11-23-2009, 07:07 PM	#176
ea77 New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	Well I did some prelim testing with my replacement body and low and behold everything is a-ok, no more problems turning on the camera. I even used the GP recyko aa batteries that were close to 30 shots used, put them in the replacement body and guess what the battery indicator is green and full. I'm blasting away enjoying the camera as I should be. Over 30 shots on the new body throwing on live view capturing movies. * The root cause of my issue was with the body. It was defective. * Why I say the body because both bodies used the same firmware, and I used the same gp recyko batteries. Only thing change was a switch of the camera body. I didn't need to fool around with battery cycling or MF/AF switches, or removal of lenses. Just turn on the camera and shoot. I have further tested by switching the batteries between my duracell eneloop and gp recyko and turning on and shooting without any wacky drainage of the meter. Even 10 flash shots in a row. Originally posted by Eruditass I've verified now that the AF/MF switch does effect or cause the firmware to do some kind of re-calculation of the battery status. I did it when it was on and in LiveView, doing several tests with various time waiting before hitting MF/AF. Sometimes it goes to green from orange by itself, but most of the time it does it right when I switch to MF. Hopefully the Pentax address will be soon.

11-24-2009, 06:27 AM	#177
noou Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Verona Posts: 60	Originally posted by ea77 Well I did some prelim testing with my replacement body and low and behold everything is a-ok, no more problems turning on the camera. I even used the GP recyko aa batteries that were close to 30 shots used, put them in the replacement body and guess what the battery indicator is green and full. I'm blasting away enjoying the camera as I should be. Over 30 shots on the new body throwing on live view capturing movies. * The root cause of my issue was with the body. It was defective. * Why I say the body because both bodies used the same firmware, and I used the same gp recyko batteries. Only thing change was a switch of the camera body. I didn't need to fool around with battery cycling or MF/AF switches, or removal of lenses. Just turn on the camera and shoot. I have further tested by switching the batteries between my duracell eneloop and gp recyko and turning on and shooting without any wacky drainage of the meter. Even 10 flash shots in a row. thanks for your report, very interesting. Trying the same batteries in two different bodies is something I was looking forward to. The sad side of the thing is that, as you said, this means that the problem is most probably hardware-related... Of course the circuits in different bodies can differ a little, but this behavior is for sure beyond an acceptable margin. Do I (and many others) need to send my K-x's for servicing? Unfortunately, my body is almost 1 month old and I cannot ask for a replacement.

11-24-2009, 12:07 PM	#178
ea77 New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	noou, no problem you're welcome. as a big corp. such as Pentax and having a mass produced product there is going to be a percentage of failure. that's just a fact. whatever percentage deemed acceptable is entirely up to the company. my opinion should not exceed 5% i could not root cause the problem, not worth my time i'm not getting paid for it. we can speculate why but that's causing misinformation.. the problem was with the body in my case. if you're battery meter is unreliable and you've tried with new, newly charged cells that are reported to work (GP Recyko and Sanyo Eneloops) then I would exchange the body. That's giving Pentax a fair shot to work, don't use crappy used up cells found in your grand mother's dresser drawer and expect the camera to work. Though the AA battery design is of convenience it is taking a risk, leaving it up to consumers to choose the batteries. Pentax did include the Energizer Lithiums because they knew it'd work. I heard some reports of european version of the K-X coming with Eneloops, so why risk anything else just buy the Eneloops. Remember the cost of 4 AA Eneloops cost less than buying a one Lithium battery pack from the manufacturer. Good luck

11-24-2009, 12:23 PM	#179
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207 Original Poster	As stated before, the problem still may be firmware not taking into account the hardware variances and tolerances. Especially the voltage readers would have tolerances that would directly relate to this, at least with my experience in monitoring circuits.

11-24-2009, 01:01 PM	#180
ea77 New Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 24	The problem lies in the hardware. I tested with two bodies, same firmware 1.0, same batteries. One behaves badly - inaccurate battery meter and one behaves accurately. Agreed this may be corrected in firmware. But 'when' if this going to happen.. You have to ask yourself do you have patience to wait? I didn't. I find it unacceptable, exchanged it and now happy.