Upgrade from *ist DS to.... what??

subidoc · 11-15-2009, 08:14 AM

Looking for some input guys. I have an *ist DS. No major problems. The things that bother me are:
1. Hunting/slow AF

: I now shoot mostly manual. I will be changing to a split-prism focusing screen sometime soon.
2. Shutter noise: I can live with; not a big deal, but it would be nice to have something quieter when in public, or taking shots of sleeping babies

Many years ago (3, to be exact), I had a feeling something was going to go wrong with my laptop. I woke up early one day, went and got an external HD, and backed up the PC. My wife thought it was a stupid guy thing, and thought I was nuts. ten days later, the laptop slipped from my hand, and was toast/history.. you get the idea

.

I am eperiencing some similar instincts now about my DS, and its quiet unnerving. Its a great camera; I like the pentaprism, the remote I can use, and 6.1 MP is plenty enough for me. because of reason #1 above, she wanted a P&S camera to carry around (I have a 22 month old who does a lot of cute things when there is no camera around

). Its a Canon

and I hate it because the lens is so small and its a royal pain to keep free of rub marks, its not any better at quick focusing, and above all, it hasn't solved her problem.

I can count on 1 hand how many images are worthwhile keeping from that piece of junk.

I want something stand-by or at least make a decision before I NEED TO buy. I'll rest easy once the choice is made... then I can take my time scoping out prices. My main utilities: pics of friends, family; travel a lot; I have 2 AF lenses (18-55 ALII and my trusted Tammy 28-75/2.8), mostly like my 28/2.8 KA lens, a 70-105 Spiratone and Pentax 50/1.7 that barely see any use.

I'd like a bright view finder (?pentaprism), compactness (my wife has smaller hands), faster AF with AF-lenses.... I am thinking of getting a "flatter and faster" AF lens and leave it attached to this new one for her. Yes, it will be bigger than the P&S, but I bet we'll have more usable images out of that.

Now I feel better. Thank you for listening...

ogl · 11-15-2009, 08:58 AM

K-7 - I guess

eigelb · 11-15-2009, 09:14 AM

....................K-7.....................

ryan s · 11-15-2009, 10:31 AM

K-7 plus DA 40 Limited

Oh hey...look at that...there's also a rebate out for that combo

http://www.pentaximaging.com/pdf/K-7_Lenses%20Rebate.pdf

res3567 · 11-15-2009, 10:42 AM

How much money you wanna spend should be the first thing you should think about.

subidoc · 11-15-2009, 10:56 AM

Well, Rob, I honestly am not sure what is going to give me the best bang for the buck. While upgrading, what am I getting for how much? I can afford a K-7 with a DA-21 or DA-35, but do I need it? I'm perfectly happy with my 28/2.8, which is small, compact, and has the sweet-spot between those 2 DA lenses (and importantly, is paid for). Yes, some of you mention the K-7. it woulld have been nice to have the same camera minus some of the features like HD video. Maybe the price would have been lower and it would have likely been easy to move that model quicker.

How much larger are the K-series of cameras compared to the *ist DS? As for the rebat, I have the 18-55 Version II (non-WR), so its no use for me. I don't shoot macro, and don't shoot in the rain, although, if I think about it, heavy fog does make me nervous...

**Ash** · 11-15-2009, 01:14 PM

The K-7 is smaller than the K10D/K20D, it's a neat little camera.
The K-x also has a small, sleek design, and may be more in line with what you're used to in the *ist DS, but you'll have to judge whether the features it lacks compared with the K-7 is worth going for.
Both of these have faster AF, not sure about being quieter, but the K-7's mirror slap is very quiet (while the K-x's is definitely not).

Add a DA 21 or 35 or 40 on either these cameras and you'll be assured of great images.
Just pick the FLs you would want to get the job done and you've got a winning combination.

LeDave · 11-15-2009, 01:23 PM

I used to own both the 21 and 35 and they are awesome lenses, but I'd pick up the DA 40 instead of the 21 or 35 if I were in your spot. Aside from saving a bit of money with it while still having great IQ, you already feel like the 28/2.8 is good enough already anyways.

subidoc · 11-15-2009, 04:24 PM

LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens?

Ash, your point on shutter noise about the K-X is a curious one: is it even louder than the DS? I will compare the feature set of the K-7 and K-X, and try to come up with a reasonable end to my dilema. I am now thinking $$$ when considering a DA 40 (even if at a later date). I hope the K-7 maintains a downard trend in price over the next few months.

You guys have been splendid in providing helpful thoughts, and I thank you...

**Lowell Goudge** · 11-15-2009, 05:37 PM

I have an *istD a K10D and a K7, the K7 is by far the quietest of the bunch, but don't let go of your DS

If you ever start going for a lot of old non "A" lenses, the DS will come in handy because it has TTL flash, and does not need to know the lens apertures to meter flash correctly

LeDave · 11-15-2009, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by subidoc

LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens?

Ash, your point on shutter noise about the K-X is a curious one: is it even louder than the DS? I will compare the feature set of the K-7 and K-X, and try to come up with a reasonable end to my dilema. I am now thinking $$$ when considering a DA 40 (even if at a later date). I hope the K-7 maintains a downard trend in price over the next few months.

You guys have been splendid in providing helpful thoughts, and I thank you...

If you want to compare K-x to K-7; besides the K-x having significantly better high iso noise levels and being cheaper, the K-7 is worth it.

has natural 100 iso vs synthetic 100 iso
better low iso noise levels
ultrasonic wave dust removal vs sensor shake
1/8000 shutter speed vs 1/6000
14.6 mega pixels vs 12.4 mega pixels
HDMI port vs none
PC port vs none
af assist lamp vs flash
77 segment metering vs 16
12 second self-timer vs 10
time lapse recording vs none
5.2 fps vs 4.7 fps
pentaprism vs pentamirror
100 percent view vs 96 percent view
0.92 viewfinder magnification vs 0.85
30 fps movie recording vs 24 fps
weather-sealed vs none
auto focus points in viewfinder vs none
horizontal level correction vs none
lens distortion correction vs none
chromatic aberration correction vs none
auto focus adjustment vs none
magnesium alloy body vs reinforced polycarbonate
3.0 lcd vs 2.7
921,000 pixels vs 230,000
more customizable features and buttons
and lastly, optional battery grip

iht · 11-15-2009, 09:40 PM

Hi subidoc, I'm also a DS user. I'm very happy with it.

I've got a AF-280T flash, which is TTL, and as Lowell mentioned, DS supports TTL flash, so that might be useful for you if you have older flash units.

Anyway, it does seem K-7 is the logical choice if you're looking for a replacement, based on your requirements. From my perspective, all things electronic depreciate so quickly, esp DSLR bodies, so if you still have a working camera and you're mostly happy with it, I wouldn't be rushing to replace it. Who knows: you'll get a few extra bucks in your pocket if you wait say, another 6 months or so? The DS seems to be built like a tank (well, at least compared to my friends' EOS400s), so it might just last you longer than you think!

And, I'm sure the DS is still lighter/smaller than the K-7 (though probably not by much), and I really like how the DS runs off just AA batteries as well.

Also, I find the size of the RAW files at about 9Mb each (being a 6MP camera) is just about the right size for me to work with. As you said, 6MP is plenty for a lot of situations. I'm sure the K-7 RAW file would be quite a bit larger.

LeDave · 11-15-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by iht

Also, I find the size of the RAW files at about 9Mb each (being a 6MP camera) is just about the right size for me to work with. As you said, 6MP is plenty for a lot of situations. I'm sure the K-7 RAW file would be quite a bit larger.

RAW DNG files on my K-7 runs around from 17-19MB each and a formatted 4GB SDHC can only fit 161 of them, so it's a huge memory hogger.

Marc Sabatella · 11-15-2009, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by LeDave

RAW DNG files on my K-7 runs around from 17-19MB each and a formatted 4GB SDHC can only fit 161 of them

Something seems wrong with that math :-). I'm guessing you are being fooled by the camera's initial guess at how many files it will be able to fit, but that guess doesn't take compression into consideration, so it's usually way low. If your DNG files are really 18MB on average, you'll fit more than 200 of them on a 4GB card...

Marc Sabatella · 11-15-2009, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by subidoc

LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens?

Depends on how you view the world. I like that focal length a lot - but also like that I have a 28 available when I want a somewhat wider view.

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11-15-2009, 08:14 AM	#1
subidoc Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere near the middle... Posts: 325	*Upgrade from ist DS to.... what??** Looking for some input guys. I have an *ist DS. No major problems. The things that bother me are: 1. Hunting/slow AF: I now shoot mostly manual. I will be changing to a split-prism focusing screen sometime soon. 2. Shutter noise: I can live with; not a big deal, but it would be nice to have something quieter when in public, or taking shots of sleeping babies Many years ago (3, to be exact), I had a feeling something was going to go wrong with my laptop. I woke up early one day, went and got an external HD, and backed up the PC. My wife thought it was a stupid guy thing, and thought I was nuts. ten days later, the laptop slipped from my hand, and was toast/history.. you get the idea. I am eperiencing some similar instincts now about my DS, and its quiet unnerving. Its a great camera; I like the pentaprism, the remote I can use, and 6.1 MP is plenty enough for me. because of reason #1 above, she wanted a P&S camera to carry around (I have a 22 month old who does a lot of cute things when there is no camera around). Its a Canon and I hate it because the lens is so small and its a royal pain to keep free of rub marks, its not any better at quick focusing, and above all, it hasn't solved her problem. I can count on 1 hand how many images are worthwhile keeping from that piece of junk. I want something stand-by or at least make a decision before I NEED TO buy. I'll rest easy once the choice is made... then I can take my time scoping out prices. My main utilities: pics of friends, family; travel a lot; I have 2 AF lenses (18-55 ALII and my trusted Tammy 28-75/2.8), mostly like my 28/2.8 KA lens, a 70-105 Spiratone and Pentax 50/1.7 that barely see any use. I'd like a bright view finder (?pentaprism), compactness (my wife has smaller hands), faster AF with AF-lenses.... I am thinking of getting a "flatter and faster" AF lens and leave it attached to this new one for her. Yes, it will be bigger than the P&S, but I bet we'll have more usable images out of that. Now I feel better. Thank you for listening...

11-15-2009, 08:58 AM	#2
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	K-7 - I guess

11-15-2009, 09:14 AM	#3
eigelb Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Italy Posts: 174	....................K-7.....................

11-15-2009, 10:31 AM	#4
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	K-7 plus DA 40 Limited Oh hey...look at that...there's also a rebate out for that combo http://www.pentaximaging.com/pdf/K-7_Lenses%20Rebate.pdf

11-15-2009, 10:42 AM	#5
res3567 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Houston Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,876	How much money you wanna spend should be the first thing you should think about.

11-15-2009, 10:56 AM	#6
subidoc Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere near the middle... Posts: 325 Original Poster	Well, Rob, I honestly am not sure what is going to give me the best bang for the buck. While upgrading, what am I getting for how much? I can afford a K-7 with a DA-21 or DA-35, but do I need it? I'm perfectly happy with my 28/2.8, which is small, compact, and has the sweet-spot between those 2 DA lenses (and importantly, is paid for). Yes, some of you mention the K-7. it woulld have been nice to have the same camera minus some of the features like HD video. Maybe the price would have been lower and it would have likely been easy to move that model quicker. How much larger are the K-series of cameras compared to the *ist DS? As for the rebat, I have the 18-55 Version II (non-WR), so its no use for me. I don't shoot macro, and don't shoot in the rain, although, if I think about it, heavy fog does make me nervous...

11-15-2009, 01:14 PM	#7
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	The K-7 is smaller than the K10D/K20D, it's a neat little camera. The K-x also has a small, sleek design, and may be more in line with what you're used to in the *ist DS, but you'll have to judge whether the features it lacks compared with the K-7 is worth going for. Both of these have faster AF, not sure about being quieter, but the K-7's mirror slap is very quiet (while the K-x's is definitely not). Add a DA 21 or 35 or 40 on either these cameras and you'll be assured of great images. Just pick the FLs you would want to get the job done and you've got a winning combination.

11-15-2009, 01:23 PM	#8
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	I used to own both the 21 and 35 and they are awesome lenses, but I'd pick up the DA 40 instead of the 21 or 35 if I were in your spot. Aside from saving a bit of money with it while still having great IQ, you already feel like the 28/2.8 is good enough already anyways.

11-15-2009, 04:24 PM	#9
subidoc Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere near the middle... Posts: 325 Original Poster	LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens? Ash, your point on shutter noise about the K-X is a curious one: is it even louder than the DS? I will compare the feature set of the K-7 and K-X, and try to come up with a reasonable end to my dilema. I am now thinking $$$ when considering a DA 40 (even if at a later date). I hope the K-7 maintains a downard trend in price over the next few months. You guys have been splendid in providing helpful thoughts, and I thank you...

11-15-2009, 05:37 PM	#10
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	I have an *istD a K10D and a K7, the K7 is by far the quietest of the bunch, but don't let go of your DS If you ever start going for a lot of old non "A" lenses, the DS will come in handy because it has TTL flash, and does not need to know the lens apertures to meter flash correctly

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11-15-2009, 06:21 PM	#11
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Originally posted by subidoc LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens? Ash, your point on shutter noise about the K-X is a curious one: is it even louder than the DS? I will compare the feature set of the K-7 and K-X, and try to come up with a reasonable end to my dilema. I am now thinking $$$ when considering a DA 40 (even if at a later date). I hope the K-7 maintains a downard trend in price over the next few months. You guys have been splendid in providing helpful thoughts, and I thank you... If you want to compare K-x to K-7; besides the K-x having significantly better high iso noise levels and being cheaper, the K-7 is worth it. has natural 100 iso vs synthetic 100 iso better low iso noise levels ultrasonic wave dust removal vs sensor shake 1/8000 shutter speed vs 1/6000 14.6 mega pixels vs 12.4 mega pixels HDMI port vs none PC port vs none af assist lamp vs flash 77 segment metering vs 16 12 second self-timer vs 10 time lapse recording vs none 5.2 fps vs 4.7 fps pentaprism vs pentamirror 100 percent view vs 96 percent view 0.92 viewfinder magnification vs 0.85 30 fps movie recording vs 24 fps weather-sealed vs none auto focus points in viewfinder vs none horizontal level correction vs none lens distortion correction vs none chromatic aberration correction vs none auto focus adjustment vs none magnesium alloy body vs reinforced polycarbonate 3.0 lcd vs 2.7 921,000 pixels vs 230,000 more customizable features and buttons and lastly, optional battery grip

11-15-2009, 09:40 PM	#12
iht Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 528	Hi subidoc, I'm also a DS user. I'm very happy with it. I've got a AF-280T flash, which is TTL, and as Lowell mentioned, DS supports TTL flash, so that might be useful for you if you have older flash units. Anyway, it does seem K-7 is the logical choice if you're looking for a replacement, based on your requirements. From my perspective, all things electronic depreciate so quickly, esp DSLR bodies, so if you still have a working camera and you're mostly happy with it, I wouldn't be rushing to replace it. Who knows: you'll get a few extra bucks in your pocket if you wait say, another 6 months or so? The DS seems to be built like a tank (well, at least compared to my friends' EOS400s), so it might just last you longer than you think! And, I'm sure the DS is still lighter/smaller than the K-7 (though probably not by much), and I really like how the DS runs off just AA batteries as well. Also, I find the size of the RAW files at about 9Mb each (being a 6MP camera) is just about the right size for me to work with. As you said, 6MP is plenty for a lot of situations. I'm sure the K-7 RAW file would be quite a bit larger.

11-15-2009, 10:06 PM	#13
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Originally posted by iht Also, I find the size of the RAW files at about 9Mb each (being a 6MP camera) is just about the right size for me to work with. As you said, 6MP is plenty for a lot of situations. I'm sure the K-7 RAW file would be quite a bit larger. RAW DNG files on my K-7 runs around from 17-19MB each and a formatted 4GB SDHC can only fit 161 of them, so it's a huge memory hogger.

11-15-2009, 10:46 PM	#14
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by LeDave RAW DNG files on my K-7 runs around from 17-19MB each and a formatted 4GB SDHC can only fit 161 of them Something seems wrong with that math :-). I'm guessing you are being fooled by the camera's initial guess at how many files it will be able to fit, but that guess doesn't take compression into consideration, so it's usually way low. If your DNG files are really 18MB on average, you'll fit more than 200 of them on a 4GB card...

11-15-2009, 10:47 PM	#15
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by subidoc LeDave, you have me thinking now. I did not give the DA 40 any thought upto this point. That should give me an effective FL of about 60. Isn't that a bit too constricting for a walk-around lens? Depends on how you view the world. I like that focal length a lot - but also like that I have a 28 available when I want a somewhat wider view.