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11-17-2009, 06:44 PM   #16
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I don't want to hijack this thread, but can someone clarify a bit about the ttl flash? I thought that digital wouldn't do ttl flash, and that's why we have the new pre-flash flash systems for DSLRs. How do the results compare to p-ttl?

11-17-2009, 06:55 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sasquatch Quote
@arbib - The camera is at Robert's. Good call. I only know of a couple Cords, and at least one of them has closed its doors. A local Pentax club would be fun, but in all honesty, I have a very hard time committing to extra curricular events The opportunity to play with different equipment could perhaps lure me though...
I hear ya, I could do something on weekends, Finally have a M-F job. The Cord in Plainfield closed after less then 2 years in business. The one in Nora off W 86th is their only worthy store to shop in. But, they carry very little Pentax.
I only mentioned the club to expand my skills and social life, and go on photo group shoots maybe once a month. I, like many, go out by myself for a few hours a week to photograph.
I do have some studio stuff I hall around for an occasional model session. And I have enough space in my APT to set it up also, if needed.
Take care...

QuoteOriginally posted by Sasquatch Quote
@Lowell - In that case I'll just pick a pronunciation and stick with it. Highly doubt the salesman will be able to correct me.
11-17-2009, 07:10 PM   #18

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QuoteOriginally posted by unkabin Quote
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can someone clarify a bit about the ttl flash? I thought that digital wouldn't do ttl flash, and that's why we have the new pre-flash flash systems for DSLRs. How do the results compare to p-ttl?

Here's a summary of what we've finally concluded about TTL support on Pentax DSLRs:

* Pentax *ist D: Full TTL support for the internal flash and any external TTL flash used with any lens
* Pentax *ist DS/DS2: TTL support for external TTL flashes only (Must be in M mode for manual lenses or when away from "A." Extremely fast apertures cannot be used)
* Pentax *ist DL/DL2: No TTL support
* Pentax K100D/K110D/K10D: No TTL support

Sadly, since the DS/DS2's both have the TTL sensor, TTL support for the built-in flash must be disabled via firmware. Also, if P-TTL is available on the external flash, it will be used over TTL.

More clarification for DS/DS2 users:
-TTL features are identical in both models
-To obtain TTL with M, K, or M42 lenses (or when using extension tubes), the mode dial must be set to M.
-The built-in flash only supports P-TTL and therefore cannot be used with M, K, or M42 lenses.

Quick Definitions:
-TTL uses a real-time sensor to control lighting during exposure. This sensor is only avaiable in the *ist D, DS, and DS2 DSLRs.
-P-TTL calculates lighting before exposure using a preflash shot and does not function if the aperture value is unknown.
11-17-2009, 07:15 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by arbib Quote
WOW.... I knew a store owner in Ft Laurderdale that try to sell to vacationers at full list. Sounds like his son btw, he went out business with in a few years.

I live in Camby (near the Indy Airport)... What store was this...Wait.... "CORD" camera or "ROBERTS" camera.

What to start a photo meet-up club in the Indy Area....PM me if you think it's a fun idea.
list on the D was $1650 I managed to get it at $1350 and that was considered a steal...

11-17-2009, 07:48 PM   #20
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one thing everyone has forgotton.

Even if P-TTL is selected if both are available, all you have to do is to take the lens out of A position, and this forces TTL to be used.

In addition, just go for a flahs like the AF500 FTZ which only supports TTL and the *istD automatically goes into TTL.

There are many ways to skin a cat with this camera.

I have shot with A lenses in TTL mode because I use a ttl only flash, and I have shot with non A lenses, using a flash like the AF540FGZ in TTL.

The *istD can do it all.

Also, and the purists will argue this to the end, there are performance differences between TTL and P-TTL. By knowing aperture, P-TTL is better perhaps in fill flash modes because it calculates both the natural exposure and the flash fill, where as TTL can only turn off the flash when the exposure is correct, but the shutter is still open, collecting light
11-17-2009, 07:56 PM   #21
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jogiba, thanks for that link.

Lowell, how would you characterize ttl's behavior compared to p-ttl?

Thanks for any (more) input.
11-17-2009, 08:21 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by unkabin Quote
jogiba, thanks for that link.

Lowell, how would you characterize ttl's behavior compared to p-ttl?

Thanks for any (more) input.
I use flash for specific purposes, one way is in wildlife with telephoto lenses like the shot I posted in this thread.

For wild life I prefer TTL, I deliberately set the camera up in manual, run maximum shutter speed (1/150 on the *istD) and stop down 1-2 stops to underexpose 2-4 stops. This means TTL dominates and exposure is good. The other issue I have with P-TTL is the preflash used for metering can be a disturbing factor in wild life, causing some subjects to move

For other shots, especially fill flash, I think P-TTL does better, because it calculates the flash intensity needed based upon the unaided exposure and adds what is needed considering the fill exposure, natural plus fill flash. As a result, P-TTL is less likely to over expose in fill flash situations.

I actually think each flash control method has its place, but since having both TTL and P-TTL requires additional hardware, sensors, A-D channel for metering etc, it cost a lot more to run both schemes. The *istD was a very expensive camera and this is part of why.
11-17-2009, 08:22 PM   #23
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As mentioned, an additional feature the *istD has is ttl flash capability which is an asset with Takumars and such. The size, dual dials, and veiw finder is nice as well compared to the pentamirror finders.

I am considering adding one for macro use with my macro-tak and ttl ringflash. That said, considering it is NOS, a think $300 is an accurate price. The lens is not as good as the II version.

11-17-2009, 09:48 PM   #24
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Yes, I think $300 is about right for a truely new (not just lightly used) ist D. FWIW, I got a very nice ist D last week for the equivalent of USD160. It was my first digicam and its only going to be used for blog photos and the such but the reason I chose the ist D over a K series was because of backwards compatibility with all my film stuff, flashes included. For tha same money I could have had a slightly worn K10D but flash and the better finder was more important than MP count.
11-17-2009, 10:33 PM   #25
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I wouldn't pay over 400 for it.
Even then, with 200 more, you have the option of the k20 or k-x.

Last edited by mickey; 11-17-2009 at 10:39 PM.
11-17-2009, 10:58 PM   #26
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AND.... The *istD onboard flash can be a flash controller.
Didn't see that again until the K10d.

I love the *istD, I have three of them, but I wouldn't pay more than $300 for one.
I got one of mine with 800 actuations on it for $230.

Saw a body go on eBay for $130 a couple of weeks ago.
11-18-2009, 12:42 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sasquatch Quote
My local pro shop has an *ist D sitting in the case. Brand new, not refurbished. It, and a DA 18-55 that is mounted to it make up about 75% of their visible Pentax inventory. The owner or manager of the store told me that they are closing out their remaining Pentax gear, as they have not seen a rep in some time. He specifically told me that they could probably cut me a nice deal on the camera.
There's a reason he still has that camera sitting on the shelf. It's because he never shifted it when it was new, and as the value quickly plunged from his wholesale price, he's never been able to make himself offer it for a realistic price ever since. He's waiting, and hoping, for somebody who doesn't know just how little that camera is worth any more.

Like others have said here, I'd definitely not pay more than $300 body-only, and $400 with lens. In fact, I doubt I'd even pay that much for it. Warranty is going to be a nightmare if you need it, and given how long that camera's been sitting completely unused, there's a fair chance you *will* need it. There's a possibility you could have a hard time persuading Pentax that you're not trying to scam them with a fake invoice, if you do need warranty work, given how old the camera is. Also, spare parts availability may become an issue.

Frankly, I wouldn't consider this at all unless you're getting it far cheaper than a modern camera with the years of advancements in technology that have occurred in between, and even then only if it is very clearly factory-sealed and could never have been removed from the packaging.

Last edited by knoxploration; 11-18-2009 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Been so long since I saw the ist D, forgot it had AAs. Suddenly remembered, removed a sentence. Sorry! ;-)
11-18-2009, 12:56 AM   #28
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The seller wants too much for the camera and kit lens, hence it still being in the shop after all these years...

If you're going to spend up to $7xx, then you may as well consider a K20D or K-x - just depends what you want...

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