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joelovotti · 06-09-2007, 07:02 PM

I am shooting swim meets with my K10D and want to know if shake reduction should be on when most pictures are taken while panning.

I'm shooting at ISO 800 @ 1/250 sec no flash with a 100mm lens at f3.5.

SR or not to SR that is the quesiton?

By the way, the tweakable white ballance on the K10D is great for the crazy lighting you have to deal with at indoor sporting events!

Harald · 06-09-2007, 11:06 PM

I have been shooting icehockey a lot. SR is always on and I have not seen any negative effects in panning situations. Only amount of sharp pictures has risen :-)

SloPhoto · 06-10-2007, 12:59 AM

It tries to eliminate the pan. Ie it will hold the background static.

If you are moving fast enough, It has a nasty effect. It will correct the pan until it hits the far extent, then re-center and try again. In some of my motorsports shots I got it to look like I had 5 exposures as all the poles were duplicated.

If you are not panning much, it should work ok, but take a few test shots before any important heats, as you may have to turn it off.

I would post an example, but it seems that I have lost my pictures from that race.

awetmore · 06-10-2007, 07:17 AM

Here is an example:

I had assumed that was due to the lights flickering (sodium vapor lamps). That exposure is 1/10 of a second and there are 12 bright marks for blurry objects in the background. That would make sense if the light flickered at 120hz (once at the peak and once at the negative peak of a 60hz AC sine wave).

I just checked some of my other photos from the same night, and this is caused by SR. I have one photo with 23 highlights and it was shot at 1/6th of a second.

That photo is challenged in many ways, so I'll leave you with a couple of better ones from the same event (Rollo, Bike Polo on kids bikes):

The low light got really challenging. This one was pushed to ISO 3200 and even higher in the faces and t-shirts due to curves.

This is a better example of panning, although it would be a much better photo if we saw the player's face.

I'm much better at landscapes than sports, but still find this stuff fun to shoot.

Lucky timing on my part!

----

Next time I'm bringing the 35/2, I really needed a faster lens and a little more length wouldn't have hurt.

alex

cwaters · 06-10-2007, 08:47 AM

I see you used the elusive B&W bike-shrinking filter. Good choice.
CW

SloPhoto · 06-10-2007, 11:57 AM

Take the example and start tracking a car going 100mph through a corner and you get HUGE separations between the images. It looks quite comical.

Gimbal · 06-10-2007, 12:05 PM

First reaction, I don’t understand the strobing effect on the example pictures since the biker is reasonably sharp. Hm...tricky one….

awetmore · 06-10-2007, 04:38 PM

I was panning (poorly) with the cyclist so he doesn't strobe. The background was blurred (due to the panning) and got the strobe effect.

You can see it to a lesser degree with the photo of the other cyclist riding in the opposite direction, but it jumps out less because the background is all in the blurry background.

Mostly these show at how poor I am at panning a 1/10sec.

xfraser · 06-10-2007, 05:24 PM

I've always gotten better results with SR off. I take photos of RC cars and boats, and they don't turn out very well if I forget to turn SR off.

eljustino · 06-15-2007, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

First reaction, I don’t understand the strobing effect on the example pictures since the biker is reasonably sharp. Hm...tricky one….

The strobing is the discharge lighting you get in public spaces

Can even happen on film guys!

sft · 06-15-2007, 04:27 PM

It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on.

mutley · 06-15-2007, 10:41 PM

[QUOTE=sft;67143]It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on.

The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning.

I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning."

Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above?

SloPhoto · 06-15-2007, 11:42 PM

[QUOTE=mutley;67213]

Originally posted by sft

It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on.

The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning.

I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning."

Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above?

1/50th at that distance is not enough to confuse it.

Mine works fine under those conditions as well, push it a bit further and it breaks down.

I was using a 40mm lens, down on course near a 80+mph corner. and mine were TERRIBLE. ( I was with the people running the event, so I had full course access ).( will admit, that in SOME shots it would do ok, it seemed like if I were to jolt the camera right when I hit the shutter, it would not show the artifact we are talking about, but I have not tested it enough to really figure out what was going on)

I actually left SR on when I was further away.

sft · 06-16-2007, 02:11 AM

[QUOTE=mutley;67213]

Originally posted by sft

It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on.

The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning.

I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning."

Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above?

What do you mean why would one K10 show multiple images and the other none? Are you asking why I didnt post an example with it off? If so the answer is that I didnt even try with SR off - I just did a couple quick ones with SR on at 50mm and at 1/50 shutter (a very typical shutter speed for panning) to see if it worked and I saw the results and I was satisfied. Someone else said it may act differently with distance - I havent tested this vigirously but I do know that when I put the camera on AF-C and half hold the shutter following the camera - I get good results with subjects like cars which are say 50 or more feet away.

roscot · 06-16-2007, 04:00 AM

Reading through these responses, it appears to me your results with SR on will depend greatly on the subject, how fast or slow are you going to pan, and your technique. Some people are getting good results with SR on.

My own experience shooting air shows, is I get better results with SR off.

06-09-2007, 07:02 PM	#1
joelovotti Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: US Photos: Albums Posts: 393	K10 Pan with Shake Reduction on? I am shooting swim meets with my K10D and want to know if shake reduction should be on when most pictures are taken while panning. I'm shooting at ISO 800 @ 1/250 sec no flash with a 100mm lens at f3.5. SR or not to SR that is the quesiton? By the way, the tweakable white ballance on the K10D is great for the crazy lighting you have to deal with at indoor sporting events!

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06-09-2007, 11:06 PM	#2
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259	I have been shooting icehockey a lot. SR is always on and I have not seen any negative effects in panning situations. Only amount of sharp pictures has risen :-)

06-10-2007, 12:59 AM	#3
SloPhoto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 133	It tries to eliminate the pan. Ie it will hold the background static. If you are moving fast enough, It has a nasty effect. It will correct the pan until it hits the far extent, then re-center and try again. In some of my motorsports shots I got it to look like I had 5 exposures as all the poles were duplicated. If you are not panning much, it should work ok, but take a few test shots before any important heats, as you may have to turn it off. I would post an example, but it seems that I have lost my pictures from that race.

06-10-2007, 07:17 AM	#4
awetmore New Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10	Here is an example: I had assumed that was due to the lights flickering (sodium vapor lamps). That exposure is 1/10 of a second and there are 12 bright marks for blurry objects in the background. That would make sense if the light flickered at 120hz (once at the peak and once at the negative peak of a 60hz AC sine wave). I just checked some of my other photos from the same night, and this is caused by SR. I have one photo with 23 highlights and it was shot at 1/6th of a second. That photo is challenged in many ways, so I'll leave you with a couple of better ones from the same event (Rollo, Bike Polo on kids bikes): The low light got really challenging. This one was pushed to ISO 3200 and even higher in the faces and t-shirts due to curves. This is a better example of panning, although it would be a much better photo if we saw the player's face. I'm much better at landscapes than sports, but still find this stuff fun to shoot. Lucky timing on my part! ---- Next time I'm bringing the 35/2, I really needed a faster lens and a little more length wouldn't have hurt. alex

06-10-2007, 08:47 AM	#5
cwaters Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 31	I see you used the elusive B&W bike-shrinking filter. Good choice. CW

06-10-2007, 11:57 AM	#6
SloPhoto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 133	Take the example and start tracking a car going 100mph through a corner and you get HUGE separations between the images. It looks quite comical.

06-10-2007, 12:05 PM	#7
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	First reaction, I don’t understand the strobing effect on the example pictures since the biker is reasonably sharp. Hm...tricky one….

06-10-2007, 04:38 PM	#8
awetmore New Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10	I was panning (poorly) with the cyclist so he doesn't strobe. The background was blurred (due to the panning) and got the strobe effect. You can see it to a lesser degree with the photo of the other cyclist riding in the opposite direction, but it jumps out less because the background is all in the blurry background. Mostly these show at how poor I am at panning a 1/10sec.

06-10-2007, 05:24 PM	#9
xfraser Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ohio Photos: Gallery Posts: 828	I've always gotten better results with SR off. I take photos of RC cars and boats, and they don't turn out very well if I forget to turn SR off.

06-15-2007, 04:05 PM	#10
eljustino New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London Photos: Gallery Posts: 22	Originally posted by Gimbal First reaction, I don’t understand the strobing effect on the example pictures since the biker is reasonably sharp. Hm...tricky one…. The strobing is the discharge lighting you get in public spaces Can even happen on film guys!

06-15-2007, 04:27 PM	#11
sft Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 173	It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on.

06-15-2007, 10:41 PM	#12
mutley Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LI, NY Posts: 313	[QUOTE=sft;67143]It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on. The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning. I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning." Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above?

06-15-2007, 11:42 PM	#13
SloPhoto Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 133	[QUOTE=mutley;67213] Originally posted by sft It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on. The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning. I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning." Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above? 1/50th at that distance is not enough to confuse it. Mine works fine under those conditions as well, push it a bit further and it breaks down. I was using a 40mm lens, down on course near a 80+mph corner. and mine were TERRIBLE. ( I was with the people running the event, so I had full course access ).( will admit, that in SOME shots it would do ok, it seemed like if I were to jolt the camera right when I hit the shutter, it would not show the artifact we are talking about, but I have not tested it enough to really figure out what was going on) I actually left SR on when I was further away.

06-16-2007, 02:11 AM	#14
sft Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 173	[QUOTE=mutley;67213] Originally posted by sft It works - here is a shot I took at 1/50 seconds with SR on. Also on Dpreview forum there is a poster by the name of Bart Hickman - he has some nice SR tests and he uses a panning motion to check if your SR works and it smarly corrects for vertical movement but with horizontal movement it doesnt get affected much since the SR mechanism hits the end as it detects steady constant motion in one direction and stays there. As you can see I think this is quite a succesfull panning shot with SR on. The new Olympus E-510 has two buttons for SR (or IS as they call it). One of them just turns off the horizontal direction specifically for panning. I wonder if Pentax is able to control that aspect of the system. If it is accessable by software, maybe they could include the option in firmware so it can be set in custom menu - "If SR is on, pressing the OK button once (twice?) turns off the horizontal direction for panning." Also, exactly why would one K10D show multiple images when panning, and another not show it, as above? What do you mean why would one K10 show multiple images and the other none? Are you asking why I didnt post an example with it off? If so the answer is that I didnt even try with SR off - I just did a couple quick ones with SR on at 50mm and at 1/50 shutter (a very typical shutter speed for panning) to see if it worked and I saw the results and I was satisfied. Someone else said it may act differently with distance - I havent tested this vigirously but I do know that when I put the camera on AF-C and half hold the shutter following the camera - I get good results with subjects like cars which are say 50 or more feet away.

06-16-2007, 04:00 AM	#15
roscot Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach VA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,363	Reading through these responses, it appears to me your results with SR on will depend greatly on the subject, how fast or slow are you going to pan, and your technique. Some people are getting good results with SR on. My own experience shooting air shows, is I get better results with SR off.

K10 Pan with Shake Reduction on?

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