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11-26-2009, 10:22 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raybo Quote
I was being sarcastic.

There is always somebody............
Absolutely. I knew of the intended sarcasm - even if the sarcastic emoticon is mutated.

I just played on it, but forgot to use this: wink

11-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeryst Quote
I just dont like being tied to having to recharge my batteries.

1. You need to buy expensive spares to keep with you just in case. They die unexpectedly, and you have to buy another expensive replacement, if you can find one, which means that you usually have to order it and wait x days until you get it. You can buy AA's everywhere. Doesnt matter if you are in the desert or the jungle, if there is a store or trading post, they'll have AA's. You can get AA's in the mountains of Afghanistan for crying out loud. Lets see you find a replacement dedicated rechargeable there after your spare falls out of your bag and a camel steps on it.

2. Unless you have spare batteries, your device is out of commission while the battery is charging, anywhere from 1 hour to overnight. There goes that once in a lifetime shot. Too bad that UFO only hovered outside your window for 60 seconds.

3. You need a dedicated charger. Chargers break, quit working, get misplaced, get lost. I bought my young daughter (an aspiring photographer) a beautiful Pentax point-and-shoot last year for Christmas. She misplaced the charger. Now the camera is a paperweight until we find the charger, or I locate and buy another one. You need to keep the charger with you "Just in case". Another piece of equipment to carry aroud with you and worry about. They dont work in many foreign countries unless you buy an adapter. Even then, unstable foreign voltages can burn them out.

4. Rechargeables bleed off their charge over time, sometimes over a short time. Dont use your camera for a month, and pop the AA's back in, it'll work fine. Chances are all of your rechargeable batteries will be dead or close to it. Crap, there's that UFO again!

5. With AA's, I have a choice. I can buy inexpensive rechargeable AA's that will fully recharge in 15 minutes, and still have regular AA's available in backup or emergency situations. With rechargeables, I have no other choices.

6. Years from now, when my rechargeable batteries have reached their final recharge cycle, I may have a hard time finding a battery or charger for my K20D. My Minolta Maxxum 9000 35mm equipment (power everything) uses AA's. I've used it for 20 years, it still works flawlessly, and batteries are as close as the closest convenience store. I havent used it since I got my K20D, but I know that all I have to do is pop the AA's back in, and it'll be ready to go, immediately. In my attic, I've got a box of useless electronic devices that all used rechargeable batteries. They are there because the batteries died, replacements are unavailable, the chargers broke, or got misplaced, etc. If they had used AA's, we might still be getting some use out of them, so the overall cost of the rechargeable batteries in them, needs to include the fact that the devices are no longer available for me to use. That cost doesnt come into play when using easily replaceable batteries.

To me, the disadvantages of dedicated rechargeable batteries greatly outweigh any advantages they may provide.
You've obviously given it a lot of thought, and that's good - you've justified the preference for AAs for yourself, but this still remains a personal thing.

On each of your points, I have not found one that bothers me in the least to make me consider AAs. In fact some of your points are not true. And I certainly don't share your fear of the battery no longer being produced in the future - especially when we're talking about electronic equipment that is not expected to last anywhere near as long as a more mechanical camera. New batteries will continue to be produced and will hang around much longer than the bodies they go into will last...

So good points raised - but if you feel that passionately about it, Pentax does give you that choice... the K200D and K-x are available now...
11-26-2009, 11:20 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeryst Quote
I hate camera specific batteries. Hate them! Hate them! Hate them!

Did I mention that I hate them?

Anyways, I was just wondering if there is a grip, accessory, or whatever that allows the K20d to be powered by some AA batteries. Anyone know of anything?

I do own a K20 and out of need to have a back-up battery I picked up a second tier unit.
I did charge it up but have not tried it out for run time, I paid less than $20 U.S. and will let you know how it holds up.

Ray
11-26-2009, 11:33 PM   #19
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I expect the K-x to be the last AA camera.

The power requirements of cameras is getting to the point where they need high stable power. With all the various brands of AA's there is too much variation.

Just look at all the threads of people blaming their K-x because it does not work with their 3 year batteries. Why should Pentax take a returned K-x because the user cannot find batteries that work?

Conversly, why should the user need to research batteries until they find a set that works.

All this is solved with a dedicated Li battery.

I can't even think of any other high tech tool that uses AA batteries.

11-27-2009, 05:03 AM   #20
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AAs are getting better and it's nice that there are Lithium AAs out there, unfortunately, the Lithium versions aren't rechargeable. I agree that you can find AAs anywhere, but the ones you can find may be RayoVac Alkaline and be good for only two shots on your camera. Video would be completely out.

It really isn't a big deal to buy a second battery (they aren't proprietary and you can get off brand versions for pretty cheap) or, even a third battery and just keep them charged up and with you. To me, I like them much better than AAs.
11-27-2009, 06:10 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeryst Quote
Anyways, I was just wondering if there is a grip, accessory, or whatever that allows the K20d to be powered by some AA batteries. Anyone know of anything?
Ownuser Battery Grip 12 AA batteries, 6 per battery pack, two battery packs in the grip, you can use one pack, 6 AA only, if you want. DX-FBH grip possesses direct DC IN so you could even go with an exterior battery pack or AC/DC converter.




Thank you
Russell
11-27-2009, 07:47 AM   #22
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I'm not a big fan of expensive batterys either but I must say the Pentax battery in my K10D is very good. It has only run out on me twice in 2 years and that was when I had gone a few weeks without recharging. I hardly ever use flash so I would guess I get over 1000 shots per charge.

I would be thrilled if camera mfgrs. got together and created a standard for batterys but that probably won't happen until they are forced to. There are rumblings starting about the enviromental hazards of improperly disposed batterys, whether it's standard batterys or the expensive rechargables. Expect to see some legislation surface before long. It isn't just cameras but laptops, power tools, small appliances, cellphones, etc. Tons of these products are disposed of every year because of battery issues. Replacement batterys are often unavailable.
11-27-2009, 01:25 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I'm not a big fan of expensive batterys either but I must say the Pentax battery in my K10D is very good. It has only run out on me twice in 2 years and that was when I had gone a few weeks without recharging. I hardly ever use flash so I would guess I get over 1000 shots per charge.
Exactly my experience with the K10/K20. These run forever with the DL50s, especially since I use the BG2 grips and have thus 2 batteries operational. I prefer these very much over AAs, which are heavier and bulkier, compared to capacity.

QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I would be thrilled if camera mfgrs. got together and created a standard for batterys but that probably won't happen until they are forced to.
As with other standards, which would be sensible to implement, we unfortunately won't see this. Or it will at least take another ten years... Just think, how long it took, until the mobile phone manufactureres could be forced to finally implement a common power connector (mini-usb).

QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
There are rumblings starting about the enviromental hazards of improperly disposed batterys, whether it's standard batterys or the expensive rechargables. Expect to see some legislation surface before long. It isn't just cameras but laptops, power tools, small appliances, cellphones, etc. Tons of these products are disposed of every year because of battery issues. Replacement batterys are often unavailable.
In Germany and many other European countries, we have a collection system for used batteries in place for roughly 10 years now. As far as I know, around 90% of all batteries are collected now, with many parts recyceled (the components of lead-batteries for example) and the rest professionally disposed off. It is not too complicated to implement such a system!

Ben

11-27-2009, 01:55 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raybo Quote
Isn't there a fairly new Pentax camera that comes with the option of using AA batteries?
Yes, but it is only an option and a dumb one at that. Pentax should have kept the remote release in the grip

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11-27-2009, 02:05 PM   #25
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For how long will Pentax keep manufacturing the lion batteries for the K10D/K20D?

They begin to age as soon as they are manufactured so they can't simply make a massive stockpile and forget about them. Do you think Pentax would cut production enough to make the batteries hard to find to drive people to simply replace the camera?
11-27-2009, 02:26 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by sebberry Quote
For how long will Pentax keep manufacturing the lion batteries for the K10D/K20D?

They begin to age as soon as they are manufactured so they can't simply make a massive stockpile and forget about them. Do you think Pentax would cut production enough to make the batteries hard to find to drive people to simply replace the camera?
There are enough third parties to provide replacements. At least those I bought are as good as the originals (and Pentax buys those in anyway) and can be had for very low money. Hey you can still get replacement ink cartridges for twenty years old HP Thinkjets!

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11-27-2009, 04:00 PM   #27
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The biggest benefit of AA's is taking advantage of improved technology. In the *istD days.. AA's kinda sucked.

Yes there are technological improvements in Li-Ion, but you will never ever see them in your current proprietary form, only new models and cameras. This is not true with AA's.

The other benefit is freedom of choice.. cheap universal rechargables OR more expensive robust lithium AA's (that go down to -40 degrees C)
11-27-2009, 06:09 PM   #28
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I don't understand the comments that indicate that Pentax is using a proprietary battery. Pentax doesn't make batteries. They just choose one and put it in their camera. Of course, they will market their own branded version of the battery for more than off brand batteries, but that doesn't mean that they are any better. In fact, the Lithium ion battery that was used in the K10/K20 was the same one that was used by Minolta for their cameras.

Unfortunately, I am afraid that an awful lot of batteries (particularly AA and AAA batteries) in the US are not recycled, but just dumped into the garbage. This is a real issue from an environmental standpoint and just one more reason to move towards (required) rechargeables.
11-27-2009, 10:45 PM   #29
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By proprietary, I mean not standard, I apologize for the mis-usage of the term.

No, they don't make batteries, but the contacts they put on them are not shared by any other camera manufacturer's batteries, or even by the DSLR's Pentax makes (K-7's is different). So they can't be exchanged, and will never be upgarded.
11-27-2009, 10:55 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
By proprietary, I mean not standard, I apologize for the mis-usage of the term.

No, they don't make batteries, but the contacts they put on them are not shared by any other camera manufacturer's batteries, or even by the DSLR's Pentax makes (K-7's is different). So they can't be exchanged, and will never be upgarded.
Upgraded?

YES future batteries will be upgraded for current cameras, they will be the same size but with more mah.
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