Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!

Arpe · 12-01-2009, 04:25 PM

Read the other threads on here or the accessories forum and you'll read this.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/79748-wireless-flash-k-7-a.html

**Ash** · 12-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by flyer

Wrong answer. When the Sigma EF 500 DG Super came on the market, it didn't work in wireless mode with the K10/20D. It had to be sent back to Sigma for a "re-chip" that made it compatible with the new(er) Pentax cameras in wireless mode.

This was a flash problem, NOT a camera problem.

By this, if the same 'rechipped' flash were to be attempted for wireless triggering by the K-7 using the on-board flash, from what I'm reading here, it would not work whereas it would work fine on the K10D.

dlacouture · 12-02-2009, 06:03 AM

Okay, some more tests had shown some pretty interesting things...

Test subject was a light brown teddy bear, placed at 1.5m from the camera.
Wireless flash was placed camera-right, facing a white wall, 2m away from subject.
All exposure comp set to 0 (camera and external flash), M mode.

My usual shooting conditions are really similar to this setup : close portraits with an off-camera flash, a fast lens for bokeh and medium isos for background balance.

So, here is what I got:

- wireless off, On-board only : well exposed.
Now with Wireless On:
- master mode, external flash turned off : subject is surexposed!
- controller mode, external flash turned off : no change, subject is surexposed, except when using a really low ISO.
- master mode, external flash turned on : subject is surexposed, external flash contribution barely visible.
- master mode, external flash turned on, on-board masked with my hand : subject is well exposed by the external flash.

A -2Ev flash comp could barely cope with the surexposure, and the external flash would by then be invisible...
What struck me was that the flash in wireless mode is actually stronger than in normal mode! And the controller mode had little or no effect on it.

From this, I really cannot see how I'll be able to use the wireless mode! I'll have to mask the on-board flash each time I want to go wireless...

I'm really starting to suspect a defective k7 unit... I'll give it a try with a k20 tomorrow.

RBellavance · 12-02-2009, 06:15 AM

This has me intrigued. I'll try and drop by my local camera store and do some tests with a genuine Pentax flash soon.

Zebooka · 12-02-2009, 07:04 AM

Built-in flash contributes a little even if in control mode.
That is a fact.

(K10D, 360 FGZ)

You can check this by just shooting your self in a mirror

dlacouture · 12-02-2009, 07:19 AM

If that was just a little, there would be no problem...

But from what I see, it's in fact often more than what it outputs in non-wireless mode!

dlacouture · 12-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Okay, last tests are in...

It seems that wireless is indeed not made for my style of photography...
I took some shots outdoors in the dark, and at 4m the on-board flash is really dim... Push up to 800 Iso and you can dimly see its effect, but below that, it stays quite quiet...

Now, for indoor, close portraits (say with a fast 35-to-50 lens, f/2), with 400-800 iso for a nice ambient/flash balance, then it really starts to ruin the pic, and the on-board flash even overexposes compared to its behavior in non-wireless mode...

That's pretty dumb, as this is a good part of what I shoot!

Anyone knows if the Nikon SG-3IR fits on a k7?

Arpe · 12-02-2009, 05:02 PM

What does surexposed mean?

flyer · 12-02-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Ash

This was a flash problem, NOT a camera problem.

It was a flash problem caused by a change in the protocol used by Pentax. So, it was both a camera and flash problem.

RBellavance · 12-02-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

What does surexposed mean?

Overexposed (the french word is surexposé).

Russell-Evans · 12-02-2009, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by flyer

It was a flash problem caused by a change in the protocol used by Pentax. So, it was both a camera and flash problem.

Since no other flash had an issue, I don't believe you can say it was a protocol change.

Thank you
Russell

Wheatfield · 12-03-2009, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Ash

Has this issue not been discovered until now?
Seems unreasonable for the K-7 not to be able to trigger a wireless flash unit with its on-board flash. K10D and K20D have had no problems doing this...

That would have to be a priority firmware update for Pentax.

He's using a Sigma flash. If the K-7 works properly with Pentax flashes, then it isn't a camera problem.

dlacouture · 12-03-2009, 06:46 AM

Well, I had some time to do tests with a K7 vs a k20...

With similar settings (1/180, 800iso, FA50@2.8, built-in flash in controller mode), the k7 clearly overexposes at short distances.
It seems to me that enabling the wireless mode on the K7 raises the minimal output of the built-in flash to a higher level than in normal mode.

K20 - K7:

(seems that I was even closer with the k20! The same photo with the K7 would have been totally nuked!!!)

Hope of seeing this fixed by a firmware update???

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Macro Bug	buskel	Photo Critique	1	06-18-2010 01:31 PM
Another K7 Bug?	mcjm78	Pentax DSLR Discussion	4	08-02-2009 08:22 AM
My best bug yet...	heliphoto	Post Your Photos!	5	07-20-2008 02:01 PM
Name this bug ...	ukbluetooth	Photographic Technique	13	06-19-2008 08:17 PM

12-01-2009, 04:25 PM	#16
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Read the other threads on here or the accessories forum and you'll read this. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/79748-wireless-flash-k-7-a.html

12-01-2009, 04:55 PM	#17
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by flyer Wrong answer. When the Sigma EF 500 DG Super came on the market, it didn't work in wireless mode with the K10/20D. It had to be sent back to Sigma for a "re-chip" that made it compatible with the new(er) Pentax cameras in wireless mode. This was a flash problem, NOT a camera problem. By this, if the same 'rechipped' flash were to be attempted for wireless triggering by the K-7 using the on-board flash, from what I'm reading here, it would not work whereas it would work fine on the K10D.

12-02-2009, 06:03 AM	#18
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074 Original Poster	Okay, some more tests had shown some pretty interesting things... Test subject was a light brown teddy bear, placed at 1.5m from the camera. Wireless flash was placed camera-right, facing a white wall, 2m away from subject. All exposure comp set to 0 (camera and external flash), M mode. My usual shooting conditions are really similar to this setup : close portraits with an off-camera flash, a fast lens for bokeh and medium isos for background balance. So, here is what I got: - wireless off, On-board only : well exposed. Now with Wireless On: - master mode, external flash turned off : subject is surexposed! - controller mode, external flash turned off : no change, subject is surexposed, except when using a really low ISO. - master mode, external flash turned on : subject is surexposed, external flash contribution barely visible. - master mode, external flash turned on, on-board masked with my hand : subject is well exposed by the external flash. A -2Ev flash comp could barely cope with the surexposure, and the external flash would by then be invisible... What struck me was that the flash in wireless mode is actually stronger than in normal mode! And the controller mode had little or no effect on it. From this, I really cannot see how I'll be able to use the wireless mode! I'll have to mask the on-board flash each time I want to go wireless... I'm really starting to suspect a defective k7 unit... I'll give it a try with a k20 tomorrow.

12-02-2009, 06:15 AM	#19
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	This has me intrigued. I'll try and drop by my local camera store and do some tests with a genuine Pentax flash soon.

12-02-2009, 07:04 AM	#20
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	Built-in flash contributes a little even if in control mode. That is a fact. (K10D, 360 FGZ) You can check this by just shooting your self in a mirror

12-02-2009, 07:19 AM	#21
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074 Original Poster	If that was just a little, there would be no problem... But from what I see, it's in fact often more than what it outputs in non-wireless mode!

12-02-2009, 01:57 PM	#22
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074 Original Poster	Okay, last tests are in... It seems that wireless is indeed not made for my style of photography... I took some shots outdoors in the dark, and at 4m the on-board flash is really dim... Push up to 800 Iso and you can dimly see its effect, but below that, it stays quite quiet... Now, for indoor, close portraits (say with a fast 35-to-50 lens, f/2), with 400-800 iso for a nice ambient/flash balance, then it really starts to ruin the pic, and the on-board flash even overexposes compared to its behavior in non-wireless mode... That's pretty dumb, as this is a good part of what I shoot! Anyone knows if the Nikon SG-3IR fits on a k7?

12-02-2009, 05:02 PM	#23
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	What does surexposed mean?

12-02-2009, 05:48 PM	#24
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by Ash This was a flash problem, NOT a camera problem. It was a flash problem caused by a change in the protocol used by Pentax. So, it was both a camera and flash problem.

12-02-2009, 06:20 PM	#25
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by Arpe What does surexposed mean? Overexposed (the french word is surexposé).

12-02-2009, 08:37 PM	#26
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by flyer It was a flash problem caused by a change in the protocol used by Pentax. So, it was both a camera and flash problem. Since no other flash had an issue, I don't believe you can say it was a protocol change. Thank you Russell

12-03-2009, 06:26 AM	#27
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by Ash Has this issue not been discovered until now? Seems unreasonable for the K-7 not to be able to trigger a wireless flash unit with its on-board flash. K10D and K20D have had no problems doing this... That would have to be a priority firmware update for Pentax. He's using a Sigma flash. If the K-7 works properly with Pentax flashes, then it isn't a camera problem.

12-03-2009, 06:46 AM	#28
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074 Original Poster	Well, I had some time to do tests with a K7 vs a k20... With similar settings (1/180, 800iso, FA50@2.8, built-in flash in controller mode), the k7 clearly overexposes at short distances. It seems to me that enabling the wireless mode on the K7 raises the minimal output of the built-in flash to a higher level than in normal mode. K20 - K7: (seems that I was even closer with the k20! The same photo with the K7 would have been totally nuked!!!) Hope of seeing this fixed by a firmware update???

K7 and Wireless bug?

Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!