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08-06-2011, 11:38 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by agsy Quote
You've got me thinking of switching to RAW + jpeg where IQ is utmost important.
One can always shoot RAW+JPG to always guarantee maximum potential quality.

My view is that not all shots "deserve" or need that -
it is of course that once in a lifetime shot that could do with it -
that's the operative phrase "once in a lifetime" -
so if there is more than one -
then it is no longer once in a lifetime right?

So what I do is set the Green Button to to shoot RAW+JPG - (because my JPGs are 10Mp, 2 star that's all I get for my JPG even when I press the Green Button) - but I do get the full RAW/DNG - so that's how I get over on what happens with the once in a lifetime shot.....

Also I am hoping to see take that one shot when I am about
150 years old......

08-08-2011, 12:50 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Also I am hoping to see take that one shot when I am about
150 years old
You are too modest. You've mentioned that people have used images of yours for album covers and such. Those may not have been once in a lifetime shots but that's more recognition than probably 99% of us here on these forums will ever get for our work.
08-08-2011, 01:45 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
You are too modest. You've mentioned that people have used images of yours for album covers and such. Those may not have been once in a lifetime shots but that's more recognition than probably 99% of us here on these forums will ever get for our work.
What a nice man....
you are too kind rawr

But I'll be able to tell when I get to 150.....
08-11-2011, 11:56 AM   #199
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Last night I took pictures of this guy .....

ISO5000, f/4, 1/15; 28mm; 0 comp
The lighting for the whole night was pretty difficult/horrible - mostly front red LED wash, which destroys all detail and makes shots look the same - had to take photos in between the red wash - even then the back-light - which I normally love, but without front lights - put things into silhouette.

Yes, the legendary Johnny Winter - I was sitting right up front on the sub-woofer within arm's length -
at the widest the 18-55 kit zoom still just managed this -

ISO5000, f/3.5, 1/30; 18mm 0 comp
it wasn't the focal length that was the limitation - although I did have to lean back as far as I could without falling down - it was the lighting - most of my shots were close to silhouettes or bathed in red - look more carefully see there isn't much, if any, front lighting - but on this one shot, there was some life saving side lighting......

Nonetheless when the lighting wasn't so bad - still managed this kind of shot -

ISO5000, f/4.5, 1/30; 28mm; 0 comp

As some may know Johnny Winter is pretty frail -
but last night he did stand for one song....

ISO4000, f/3.5, 1/50; 18mm; 0 comp
no it wasn't red from the front all the time
sometimes all the LEDs were on to produce "white" -
but a pretty harsh white.

His regular closing number "Highway 61" -

ISO5000, f/4, 1/15; 26mm; 0 comp

I've finished whinging....

08-13-2011, 12:29 PM   #200
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no peace for the wicked....
so I'm not going to let you guys rest!

5 more gigs in two nights.........
3 on Thursday, 2 last night - at different venues -
had to go across town.....

Thursday usually means the dark jazz club - but I had an early start -

ISO4000, f/3.5, 1/50; 18mm; 0 comp
just after 8pm - obvious strong back-lighting - this was at a coffee house.
The band is Little Tybee one of my favorite local bands - try
.

Of course the gig went on until it was dark outside -

ISO5000, f/4.5, 1/13; 43mm
hello ISO5000 - surprisingly it was as dark as the dark jazz club stage area.......
(there was no stage lighting as such - just the normal cafe/room lighting)

I really like this shot -

ISO5000, f/5.6, 1/13; 50mm
great rim lighting in her hair - fabulous expression - sort of mischievous grin -

I had to do some selective area pp in holding back on her violin bow and poster in the background - otherwise they would have been blown out to all white, and the already feint bow would have disappeared, and would not have made sense..

- back to normal scheduled service -
yes, the Thursday night dark jazz venue -
doesn't it get boring week after week?
- no, the music is always interesting -
and the photography is always a challenge -

ISO5000, f/3.5, 1/15; 18mm -2 stop comp
I am beginning to admit - it is ridiculously dark in there for photography - note the -2 stop compensation (this means the "correct" exposure would have been 1/4 sec with everything else the same) - even as it was, the center face was nearly burnt out - again I had to do selective area processing in holding back the face.


ISO5000, f/4.5, 1/25; 38mm; -1 stop comp
-1 stop comp to prevent face from burning out -
still had to hold back the face in pp.


ISO5000, f/3.5, 1/8; 68mm; 0 comp
like the reflection in the glasses and the lighting on the bottom of the cymbal with holes. Had to bring the brightness up quite a bit on this one - and it was difficult, if not impossible, to focus on the face as it spent most of the time in the shadow of the hat - so I focused on the T-shirt instead.

some of you may have noted I seem to mostly shoot from the trumpeter's left-side - well - it's simply because I am normally on that (right) side of the room to cross to the left usually means disturbing the audience. However there is another reason, for a trumpeter that is the better side to shoot from (although for sax and trombone their right-side is better)

anyway to show I don't always shoot trumpeters from their left -

ISO5000, f/4.5, 1/60; 80mm; -1 stop comp.....


ISO5000, f/4.5, 1/50; 95mm; -1.3 stops comp
I prefer to shoot from trumpeters' left, because the hand positions are slightly better.

Last stop of the Thursday night -

ISO5000, f/3.5, 1/15; 18mm; 0 comp
I had a really difficult time at this venue where I normally shoot a lot - but with my compact with -1.7 comp slow sync fill-flash - just could not get a consistent white balance - the normally sterling AWB on the K-x persistently gave red/orange images - eventually I had to resort to using tungsten white balance. Trying to do flash shots with similar -1.7 comp fill slow sync - did not work that well - now I know my compact does the flash thing differently to the K-x - this means I have experiment and learn more about the K-x flash characteristics.
...before we leave Thursday - please look that window on the right behind the bassist......

Friday - another difficult for me venue mainly because to be at the front I have to be on my knees or sitting on my hind-side - don't get me wrong the audience at the front are very understanding and kind - but I cannot just jump up and block their view for their kindness, now can I?

And strangely I am normally able to shoot AWB - but for some reason last night the results turned out orange/red - so again I had to switch to tungsten WB - as it was, some shots were just too blue -
yet for all the times I shot here K-x AWB did better than I could doing manual WB, and I hardly ever had a color balance issue.....


ISO5000, f/4, 1/25; 31mm
one can see I've done this before - for me it was waiting for the chorus when there was supporting singing to get more than one person on the mic - with right expression - this was later on in the show when I moved to the back of the room to get the overall shot.


ISO5000, f/4, 1/30; 20mm
up front on my @ss literally by the lead vocalist's feet.

run, run, run - right across town back to the venue where I shoot a lot but with my compact - have I learned anything from the night before?
well straight away I knew to set tungsten WB -

ISO5000, f/3.5, 1/30; 18mm
strong colors - the area to the left that's blue - is not that blue - but hey, I'll take it - had to reduce saturation pp otherwise it's look way too garish.


ISO3200, f/5.6, 1/25; 26mm
ah, but with -1.3 stop compensated flash.....
which achieved the clarity I wanted -
but compare with -

ISO5000, f/4, 1/40; 28mm
no flash - but boy did I have to work hard to achieve this - merely upping the brightness/contrast - gave a way over the top saturated result - so had to quite severely reduce saturation - then again adjust the brightness.....

Oh what was all that about noting the window before?

again Tungsten WB - that is normal night street low pressure sodium lighting out of that window - that shows how yellow/red the stage lighting was........and I think out of the adjustment range for the K-x AWB........

Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-13-2011 at 02:05 PM.
08-13-2011, 03:04 PM   #201
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Very good stuff! I was never enamored of hi-iso bragging, feeling sure that iso 1600-2000 was sufficient for my kind of shooting (which isn't gigs but can be indoors or in the last twilight). Now that I've taken iso5000 shots that look like other cam's 1600 I, like you, am sold on the k-x sensor. I have seen what the magic-16M sensor can do and it's wonderful - but for the time place and budget I'm in, the k-x is magic enough for me.
08-13-2011, 03:25 PM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
Very good stuff!
Now that I've taken iso5000 shots that look like other cam's 1600 I, like you, am sold on the k-x sensor. I have seen what the magic-16M sensor can do and it's wonderful - but for the time place and budget I'm in, the k-x is magic enough for me.
Thank you jimr-pdx for your kind input.

Getting the K-x almost two years ago now, was because I could see the HighISO performance - and I just knew it would work for the type of shooting I do.

The dark jazz club - was something I stumbled upon - yet now I know without the K-x I am not too sure if I would shoot there that often.

When both the K-5 and K-r were announced the first thing I did was to compare the HighISO and although the 16Mp is a measurable advance - it is not so that it would make much (if any) material difference to my shooting - that does not mean I do not covet the K-5 or even Nikon D7000 -

100% crops from dpReview -
ISO6400




ISO12800




Also bear in mind - although HighISO may well improve - and anything can help -
but I am not too sure if they can be taken advantage of in really, really low light situations -
I think the dark jazz club may well pose a sort of practical limit (at least for my current equipment) -
as in parts it is actually below both the metering and AF limits of my K-x with my 2 lenses (the K-5 and K-r limits I think are the same) -

Please see these two posts #131 and #132 earlier in this thread where I tested for the low limits of K-x metering.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-14-2011 at 09:25 AM.
08-14-2011, 12:39 PM   #203
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no rest even on a Sunday.....
and it's not always HighISO.......

last night - pretty spectacular stuff - a semi-annual Elvis show -

ISO320, f/3.5, 1/15; 18mm; -2/3 stop comp
had to set -2/3 comp otherwise the main performer's face would be over exposed - from contrast with is black suit.


ISO250, f/3.5, 1/50; 18mm; -2/3 stop comp
this is actually the very next shot in sequence (7 secs later)
when the main performer danced with the girls, and the stage lights had changed


ISO200, f/4, 1/50; 20mm; -2/3 stop comp
during the night I kind of felt I just wasn't getting any of the poses I used to get like in Post #116 - that's when I realized that those poses were held momentarily at the end of the song - no, I was there waiting for it - BUT the lights were turned down or even off then - so I mostly missed those poses!! This one was because I knew what was happening and shot as soon as I saw the set pose and didn't wait for better position/pose - otherwise it would have been in the dark.......


ISO1250, f/3.5, 1/50; 18mm; -2/3 stop comp
selective area pp - had to hold back on the lead singer's face.
I did say spectacular........

08-19-2011, 01:55 PM   #204
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08-20-2011, 02:16 PM   #205
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08-21-2011, 12:23 PM   #206
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Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-22-2011 at 12:11 PM.
08-21-2011, 03:18 PM   #207
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[2nd EDIT: I have now also added the intermediate PDCU grey point corrected versions to show what those looked like]

[EDIT: I have now added the original images resized and sharpened only (with EXIF) to put things into context -
I found when I tried to up the brightness the magenta becomes overwhelming - the straight JPG processed pics (second) in each case are the best that I knew how to mitigate the losses - things like reduce saturation, add green etc - but not good enough.
]

Last 2 nights I was at the same venue with the same "show" - called the Last Waltz Ensemble - named after the famous farewell movie of the Band (two immediate preceding posts #205 and #206 above) -

Anyway the first night's lighting was really difficult - lots of red washes which destroys all detail -and on top of that the lights were flashing more or less all the time (where it was almost stroboscopic) - which plays havoc with the exposure - and it is nigh on impossible to take a shot that one sees - as the lights will have changed.

I was actually quite upset about the lighting because I missed so many potentially good opportunities -
but instead of getting agitated about it (which I was almost the whole next day) I decided to "suck it up" and treat it as a challenge - and basically look for opportunities in the lighting moments to take photos - as opposed to expecting to be able to take them all the- or any-time.

It worked
my attitude was better.

Last night was better but there was the tendency to use a lot of red and blues LEDs only to give that dreaded magenta - what to do?........
look at this shot:
Original (resize and sharpen only)

any degree of JPG compression tends to make the pic look mushy/blurry.

straight JPG process -

I did every thing I thought I knew how on the JPG to mitigate once saved to JPG
- the shot would look blurred -
even here it is not that great........

what to do, what to do?
yes, I already hear the chorus -
well if you shot RAW then you would not have the problem -
well, you still would - because there was just NO green in the mix
which means even with RAW one is still faced with the spectrum of red and blue only (no green)
- please take a look at this extensively discussed thread:

Modern LED Stage Lighting & photography problems ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

and Posts #67, #100, #109, #110 in this thread

and "Underdone" look of pentax RAW files... ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

OK what can I do with a JPG then?

Open original in PDCU (Pentax Digital Camera Utility)
simply use select grey point on white panel of shirt to get -

this is almost "normal" lighting - but obviously losing the feel of the actual lighting.....

So re-add magenta and blue after brightness/contrast adjust -
to get:

adding equal amount of magenta and blue until it looked about right.

Original:

corrected all I could to mitigate magenta loss -
ie: the best job I knew how -


PDCU grey point correction -

again "over-corrected to almost "normal" lighting - but with some obvious unbalance toward green in the background

Re-add magenta and blue -

to get the original feel......

Original:


best processing I could to mitigate losses -


same technique:
PDCU grey pt:


re-add magenta and blue -


Original:


best straight JPG process -


same technique:
PDCU grey pt:


Re-add magenta and blue


all the originals, PDCU grey pt versions and the "better" final versions have EXIF attached - caveat PhotoBucket sometimes seems to mysteriously drop metadata.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-23-2011 at 11:07 AM.
08-22-2011, 03:55 PM   #208
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Good stuff!
08-24-2011, 09:16 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by agsy Quote
Good stuff!
Thank you Andras/agsy.

Let me try to summarize what I did in Post #207 above -
it may have seemed complex and time consuming with my double edited/added post
with all those multiple example pictures -
but I assure you it was really simple
(I am very lazy, so try to minimize any pp work).

With any overwhelming cast (magenta or any other strong color) -

1) remove that cast - and the simplest tool is PCDU - simply use it even on a JPG (as I did) to select grey point - and the cast is "gone" - I have tried this with other processors and none were as simple and successful as PDCU - this is one single click of the mouse button - DONE - then save to high quality **** JPG.
[FWIW - it stands to good reason why PDCU seems to do better than any other processor on this - it's because PDCU "understands" the camera settings - even in JPG]

2) open the new JPG in one's favorite editor - do usual processing - like resize, adjust brightness/contrast (but don't sharpen yet).

3) use color balance to re-add magenta (and blue), or any other color if the cast was not magenta - until it has the look feel of the original - or better.

4) sharpen - and save

that's it.

This post seems a lot shorter than Post #207 above

Last edited by UnknownVT; 08-24-2011 at 09:28 AM.
08-24-2011, 07:15 PM   #210
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EXIF attached.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 10-03-2011 at 11:02 PM.
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