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12-06-2009, 01:45 AM   #1
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Why are the K20D and K7 not considered Pro

What makes the cameras we love not in the PRO category? I think that the people that review the cameras look at the price and make their decision with that.

12-06-2009, 02:38 AM   #2
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Not PRO, leave it at that it will cost less.
Are you a Pro? Why is it important?
12-06-2009, 03:33 AM   #3
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There have been several discussions about what makes a camera a pro camera. Some feel that just because professionals use something, that makes it "professional gear." I think the consensus really was that for a camera company to offer a pro camera, they have to offer pro support -- quick turn around times, etc.

Most professional photographers don't use top end equipment -- too expensive to replace. I would say that most of the wedding/ portrait photographers in my area use Canon 20D's. Not the newest or most "professional" camera out there, but when you are making a living at shooting, you don't flip equipment just to get new stuff, only if you have a real need.
12-06-2009, 04:40 AM   #4
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QuoteQuote:
Most professional photographers don't use top end equipment -- too expensive to replace. I would say that most of the wedding/ portrait photographers in my area use Canon 20D's. Not the newest or most "professional" camera out there, but when you are making a living at shooting, you don't flip equipment just to get new stuff, only if you have a real need.
My old man uses Canon 5DS2 and i know of plenty of others using this, but none using 20D

12-06-2009, 04:44 AM   #5
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It is 'pro' gear, that's what I use it for anyway.
12-06-2009, 04:45 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by fccwpe Quote
What makes the cameras we love not in the PRO category? I think that the people that review the cameras look at the price and make their decision with that.
That's a bit of a joke really since many of us are "Pro's" by trade.
I always laugh a little bit when I go to events and see shooters glancing over(at the corner of there eye) at what the other guys shooting. It's a strange phenomenon really but its a prominent one.

My wife uses fuji and FF at work, but we carry Pentax with us mainly to lighten the load and share gear.

My sister shoots for a living and she been using Oly's since she began.

personally, I think this whole Pro issue, is an effect that is cast mainly in newcomers or those who are in transition. However, most seasoned photographers just know better.

PS. I also agree on the service and support, however, I also think this is a dying trend as more camera's are coming in with calibration systems and so forth. The best and only real method for redundancy in the trade is with backup equipment
12-06-2009, 07:57 AM   #7
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The Canon 7D cost more than the K-7 and is also not considered a pro model like the FF $6,000 1Ds just like the Nikon D300S compared to the FF $7,000 D3x.
Canon & Nikon pro DSLRs:


Last edited by jogiba; 12-06-2009 at 08:05 AM.
12-06-2009, 08:22 AM   #8
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I consider dslrs with dual card slots "pro"

I consider dslrs with dual card slots "pro" caliber. Sure people can make money with most any camera, even a pinhole camera. But having dual card slots means if you have a card failure you still got the shot(s).

Then theres the array of lenses available for sale today. Most would agree Pentax 645D will be a pro camera, but if it launches with only two or three currently produced lenses then is it "Pro"? What if 645D launches with only one kit lens, leaving 645D platform buyers shopping at ebay, pawn shops, used camera shops, craigslist, estate sales, ect... for lenses.

If either K20D or K-7 had dual card slots I'd label them as "Pro" and that goes for almost any other brand dslr too. To me thats the esential for Pro Spec'd Dslrs.

With film cameras its different, then its shutter durability, flash sync speeds, frames per second, and still an overflowing library of currently available fast aperture glass made by the camera's manufacturer.

12-06-2009, 08:36 AM   #9
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QuoteQuote:
If either K20D or K-7 had dual card slots I'd label them as "Pro" and that goes for almost any other brand dslr too. To me thats the esential for Pro Spec'd Dslrs.
So I guess the $200 JVC Enverio is a Pro Camcorder since it has dual SDHC slots.
JVC Everio 40X Dynamic Zoom 2.7 in. LCD Dual SD Card Camcorder - Black
12-06-2009, 08:40 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
If either K20D or K-7 had dual card slots I'd label them as "Pro" and that goes for almost any other brand dslr too. To me thats the esential for Pro Spec'd Dslrs.
I'm not knocking your method, but how often have you lost a shoot due to card slot failure?

In my(almost) ten years of shooting digital, I've experienced none but two show stoppers in that time span, neither of which were due to card failure. Interestingly enough, one of the most problematic bodies I've ever owned was a prosumer grade while another(entry level) yielded the highest level of reliability

Though there are no doubts that some bodies will be classed as PRO by design. I really think the concept as a whole is a bit of a marketing wash as we see consumer technology raising the bar on performances in leaps and bounds.

Remembering when frame rates and weather seals were all the rage... whereas such features today are thrown in for good measure. On the same lines, AF superiority was a given, wheras today, the advantages are becoming much more difficult to measure. Same goes for DR, noise handling and ergonomics.

TBH. the future really doesn't look very bright for these pro-grade bodies at all as it seems like the only thing they'll have going for them will be there intimidating size and weight!


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12-06-2009, 08:41 AM   #11
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We're complicating matters. And we've been through this many times before.
A camera that offers specs that meet those demanded by a pro is good enough to be pro.
A 5DMkII used by pros is pro. A D3X or D700 used by pros are pro. A *ist D used by a pro is still pro. But what does it matter?
There is no need to formally recognise a pro camera as such - it's just a higher-end camera, with a price tag to match.
Check all the similar threads below for previous discussions on this less important issue.
12-06-2009, 09:03 AM   #12
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No card failures for me either, however

No card failures for me either, however if you visit wedding forums across all brands of gear you'll find that card failures happen and the legal/financial problems that then occur with lost wedding images that follow. Then theres the no flash in church requiring a camera that produces high iso. That could be another pro spec I overlooked on last post.

None of my dslrs are pro spec and as such they were priced accordingly. And that helped make them affordable.


QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I'm not knocking your method, but how often have you lost a shoot due to card slot failure?

In my(almost) ten years of shooting digital, I've experienced none but two show stoppers in that time span, neither of which were due to card failure. Interestingly enough, one of the most problematic bodies I've ever owned was a prosumer grade while another(entry level) yielded the highest level of reliability

Though there are no doubts that some bodies will be classed as PRO by design. I really think the concept as a whole is a bit of a marketing wash as we see consumer technology raising the bar on performances in leaps and bounds.

Remembering when frame rates and weather seals were all the rage... whereas such features today are thrown in for good measure. On the same lines, AF superiority was a given, wheras today, the advantages are becoming much more difficult to measure. Same goes for DR, noise handling and ergonomics.

TBH. the future really doesn't look very bright for these pro-grade bodies at all as it seems like the only thing they'll have going for them will be there intimidating size and weight!


- [Marketing Add]

Do yourself a favor and grab one of our 6 thousand dollars bodies!
It's scare the begeesus out of your competition!
12-06-2009, 09:26 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
We're complicating matters. And we've been through this many times before.
A camera that offers specs that meet those demanded by a pro is good enough to be pro.
A 5DMkII used by pros is pro. A D3X or D700 used by pros are pro. A *ist D used by a pro is still pro. But what does it matter?
There is no need to formally recognise a pro camera as such - it's just a higher-end camera, with a price tag to match.
Check all the similar threads below for previous discussions on this less important issue.
So I guess if a "Pro" uses a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 P&S camera because it offers specs that meet his demands its now good enough to be called a pro camera.
12-06-2009, 09:40 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
So I guess if a "Pro" uses a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 P&S camera because it offers specs that meet his demands its now good enough to be called a pro camera.
Perhaps it would be easier to evaluate if we associated the term by the level and type of features that the camera has?

Then there is also the discrepancy of the pro person and the gear he or she uses as well.

ie. Photoshop CS4 is considered professional grade whereas windows paint is not. Yet artists have done wonders with both.

Venice done in Windows Paint

Artwork by: Diamonster (from deviantART)
12-06-2009, 09:42 AM   #15
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It ain't pro because there are other cameras that are technologically more advanced and if every camera is categorized into one big slump to choose what's pro or what's not then it wouldn't be very good marketing for Canikon's who have like 5-6 sets out every seasons. They wouldn't want to just release them all in a big mess and say uh here we go just pick whichever you want, there needs to be organization on these different technologies.. In order to seperate these cameras into categories for people to pick based off of what they need and what is their budget rang. They must have grouped names like Entry-level, mid-level, semi-pro, and pro-level. Just because it's categorized into that specific group, doesn't mean they're not used for pros. Like Ash said, the camera they use doesn't make them a pro, if they're a pro then whatever they use they can make pro shots out of it.

It's just like a car for example, the car you drive doesn't make you pro, someone who drives a Honda Civic Si may be a pro if they have experience with driving. someone who drives a Ferrari 599 may not be as experienced as someone who has had experience in the race track out there with a Nissan 370z. But yet there are categories for cars because some are more advanced then others, larger engines, larger weight, different designs such as FF, FR, AWD, etc. Some can't compete with others because the technology is different, same goes with cameras. You can't compare an APS-C to an FF, sure FF is in the pro-level but that doesn't make someone who just jumped into photography with a 1DSMK3 a pro.
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