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05-24-2010, 06:23 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kazy Quote
When's the last time you heard of a DSLR catching on fire?

If there was a problem like this with the third party batteries, you KNOW it'd be posted here. I've yet to see any issues about it posted, and everyone here actually recommends the batteries.


edit: In fact, I could probably get a good insurance policy on my camera with the money saved on batteries, which would cover in the very small chance that something did go wrong.
So you think laptops, ipods and all manner of other devices can catch fire with the exact same battery technology, but DSLRs are magically immune?

05-25-2010, 03:08 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
So you think laptops, ipods and all manner of other devices can catch fire with the exact same battery technology, but DSLRs are magically immune?
I'm not saying they're immune, but it's very unlikely to happen.

No one on these forums has had a problem with a third party battery so far, so I figure that they must be built at least somewhat well.

Last edited by Kazy; 05-25-2010 at 03:32 AM.
05-25-2010, 10:10 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kazy Quote
I'm not saying they're immune, but it's very unlikely to happen.

No one on these forums has had a problem with a third party battery so far, so I figure that they must be built at least somewhat well.
No one on these forums has *reported* a problem, that you or I have seen.

Note that camera battery fires DO happen. It's easy to find reports of them on Google, as well as past recalls of digital camera batteries even from name-brand companies.

Nikon recalled almost three quarters of a million digital SLR batteries a few years back due to a potential fire hazard:

Nikon announces massive battery recall - CNET News

Yes, it's fairly unlikely (although it's significantly more likely for a counterfeit battery than for a name-brand one). It's still not worth the risk, if you ask me.
05-25-2010, 10:26 AM   #139
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That's the point. Is it worth the risk to me? Well, yes. The chance of it happening and doing any real serious damage is pretty small.

05-25-2010, 04:56 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kazy Quote
That's the point. Is it worth the risk to me? Well, yes. The chance of it happening and doing any real serious damage is pretty small.
Small, but worth being aware of. What's worth it to you might not be worth it to somebody else.
05-25-2010, 05:30 PM   #141
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I think we need less scare mongering with regards to use of third-party batteries.
I've used several third-party batteries on the K-7 and they are comparable to performance to the Pentax D-LI90 with no problems whatsoever.
05-25-2010, 06:17 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I think we need less scare mongering with regards to use of third-party batteries.
I've used several third-party batteries on the K-7 and they are comparable to performance to the Pentax D-LI90 with no problems whatsoever.
...in your experience, with a sample size of one person and "several" batteries.

It's not scare mongering, it's stating simple facts. No-name third party batteries aren't necessarily built with the same quality as original products, quite possibly may not be labelled anywhere near close to truthfully as regards their charge capacity, and don't necessarily even comply with local or national safety certifications.

You get what you pay for, and with battery chemistries that are known for their potential dangers, it only makes sense to consider the safety implications. If you're unlucky enough to lose your camera -- or perhaps even your house or business, if the battery bursts into flames in a charger when you're not nearby -- you'd likely be singing a very different tune. One can only comment based on one's own experiences, and insisting nobody else should have concern because you as one specific individual haven't had a problem simply doesn't make sense.
05-25-2010, 10:01 PM   #143
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not all 3rd party batteries are bad. some can be of good quality, but most can be bad. even if a battery is made by a 3rd party, I believe there is also a ranking with regards to quality between manufacturers. it's a matter of which manufacturer is reliable and needs to be considered.

I'm just stating facts here since I had tried some well-known makers and unknown one. from batteries, to gadgets, to electronic equipments, you name it. but most often times, a branded item would give you that sense of security and much higher durability. also, this is the last time that I will buy an MSI product, it's rubbish.

05-26-2010, 02:19 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Yes, it's fairly unlikely (although it's significantly more likely for a counterfeit battery than for a name-brand one).
Except that the "name-brands" buy the core cells exactly from the same few manufacturers as everybody else. Most of them even gets the plastic case made by the same factories. If you think that every company makes the batteries for their products themselves then you're totally wrong. Only a handful of factories make Li-Ion (and Li-Pol) cells.
With totally noname batteries the risk is that they might have used bad cells (that failed at quality control in the factory or are plain bad). But in general third-party batteries use exactly the same cells (and mostly also the same plastic case), manufactured at the same factory as genuine branded ones.
05-26-2010, 08:06 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
not all 3rd party batteries are bad. some can be of good quality, but most can be bad. even if a battery is made by a 3rd party, I believe there is also a ranking with regards to quality between manufacturers. it's a matter of which manufacturer is reliable and needs to be considered.
Yep, I never claimed they were *all* bad, just that they're more likely to be bad than a name-brand battery. Third-party batteries are probably more likely to vary from batch to batch, as well -- so what's great in one batch might not be in the next one.

QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
Except that the "name-brands" buy the core cells exactly from the same few manufacturers as everybody else. Most of them even gets the plastic case made by the same factories. If you think that every company makes the batteries for their products themselves then you're totally wrong. Only a handful of factories make Li-Ion (and Li-Pol) cells.
The components likely come from the same place, but what's important is how they're assembled, the quality of components used, and the level of quality control applied.

QuoteQuote:
With totally noname batteries the risk is that they might have used bad cells (that failed at quality control in the factory or are plain bad). But in general third-party batteries use exactly the same cells (and mostly also the same plastic case), manufactured at the same factory as genuine branded ones.
We're talking about totally no-name batteries here. I already stated I'd be fine with buying from a name-brand that stood behind their products (and warranted the products in which their used from damage that's the fault of the battery).

There are third-parties out there who I'd consider name brands, such as Maha / PowerEx for example. I'm not aware of any such reputable third-parties making knockoff K-7 batteries, though. All the third-party K-7 batteries I've seen are the no-name, no-warranty, no quality control, no thank you batteries.
05-26-2010, 09:17 AM   #146
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Well knoxploration, all I can say with certainty is that the 3rd party batteries that I use on my K-7 as a backup work fine. Original manufacturer batteries don't necessarily mean superior quality nor failure free.
I have had an original Sony Vaio laptop battery fail within a month of purchase. If not for the warranty, I would have been US$300 poorer. My Macbook had a battery recall, and the batteries were made by Sony.
My wife's original Blackberry battery also failed within 6 months. The 3rd party battery bundled free with it at the time of purchase still works fine.

Back to the topic, I was curious to find out how the eBay ones for the K-7 fared and bid for these from a China eBay seller last year. US$20 shipping inclusive all in. Smooth transaction, fast shipping, no dud battery issues thus far.


This one was given to me as a courtesy gift from a camera shop and is a common brand that is found in many camera stores where I am.
The 3500 mAh rating allows me to shoot a little over 1000 shots per charge. Again no issues.



You may say I am a sample size of one, but I can definitely attest that the other Pentax user friends who got the above battery with me at the same time from the camera shop have not indicated any issues thus far.
I dwell on the facts that I've experienced with 3rd part batteries first hand, not on conjecture.
05-26-2010, 02:16 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Original manufacturer batteries don't necessarily mean superior quality nor failure free.
If you re-read my posts, you'll see I never claimed otherwise. What I did say was that if the battery fails with a battery from a brand-name, you have a warranty to fall back on (and a pretty good chance of getting your camera itself replaced, if it's damaged by a battery failure).

QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I have had an original Sony Vaio laptop battery fail within a month of purchase. If not for the warranty, I would have been US$300 poorer. My Macbook had a battery recall, and the batteries were made by Sony.
Which rather proves my point. With no-name third party batteries, you'd have had no recourse -- either for the battery itself, or for the product it was used with. For a name-brand battery, you have a warranty and recourse.

QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
My wife's original Blackberry battery also failed within 6 months. The 3rd party battery bundled free with it at the time of purchase still works fine.
And it could just as easily have gone the other way around. I'm not familiar with Blackberry's warranty terms, but chances are you were still covered again in that instance. The chances of you having been covered by a warranty with a no-name battery are about zip.

QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
The 3500 mAh rating allows me to shoot a little over 1000 shots per charge. Again no issues.
3500mAh printed on a battery that's supposedly identical in design to an original battery that's 1860mAh makes me raise my eyebrow, to say the least. Third parties can't magically fit more powerful cells in the same housing than the original manufacturer can, and we've not had any advancements since the K-7 shipped to nearly double lithium ion charge density.

That's another of the problems with no-name third parties that I've already mentioned in this thread. They can print absolutely anything they like on the label, true or not. I'd wager that battery pack contains nowhere near 3500mAh. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it provides much more than the Pentax version, if any at all. With a name-brand battery, you at least have a reasonable expectation that the battery will provide somewhere near what's printed on the label. With the no-name third party battery, that's often not the case, and a battery that's claimed to offer the same as or more than the original battery can turn out to offer far less charge capacity.

And I'll say it once again, by "name brand", I don't mean the same brand as the product it's used in -- I just mean a reputable company with a brand name somebody's heard of, a warranty, and a clear way for the customer to contact them. That includes the original manufacturer (Pentax or whomever), big names like Eveready etc., and lesser known names like Maha, etc. Thing is, I'm not aware of any big names other than Pentax themselves offering the D-LI90 yet. Our choices are basically Pentax, or the no-names. Hopefully that'll change, and thankfully Pentax hasn't taken the route of some manufacturers in making it so that *only* their batteries will physically work.
05-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #148
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that is the danger on buying with 3rd party batteries. there is no guarantee if what is on the label is true or not, aside from the poor casing. but anyways, as long as your 3rd party manufacturer is reliable, I dont think you will have any problems with it.
05-26-2010, 04:33 PM   #149
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Are you dead certain your warranty covers battery failures?

QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
...What I did say was that if the battery fails with a battery from a brand-name, you have a warranty to fall back on (and a pretty good chance of getting your camera itself replaced, if it's damaged by a battery failure).
QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Which rather proves my point. With no-name third party batteries, you'd have had no recourse -- either for the battery itself, or for the product it was used with. For a name-brand battery, you have a warranty and recourse.
QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
And it could just as easily have gone the other way around. I'm not familiar with Blackberry's warranty terms, but chances are you were still covered again in that instance. The chances of you having been covered by a warranty with a no-name battery are about zip.
Where I am in Singapore, warranty for the the Pentax product covers malfunctions arising from defects in original factory materials and workmanship. The warranty does not cover any damage caused to the product, including, but not limited to battery leakages/failures as well as consequential or incidental damages arising. I'm pretty certain the same applies to other geographical regions, USA included.

This being the case, I am not entirely certain that a battery failure (whether OEM or aftermarket) or resultant damage if any, to the camera is covered by the terms of the warranty. Certainly there is no warranty card that comes specific to the original Pentax battery. So it is not an open and shut case that even using original Pentax batteries will guarantee that you get warranty cover if by our uber extreme possibility that the batteries overheat and causes the DSLR to catch fire.

Bottomline is to my understanding, battery failures aren't covered...


QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
3500mAh printed on a battery that's supposedly identical in design to an original battery that's 1860mAh makes me raise my eyebrow, to say the least. Third parties can't magically fit more powerful cells in the same housing than the original manufacturer can, and we've not had any advancements since the K-7 shipped to nearly double lithium ion charge density.
Well maybe they can or maybe they can't, but you don't have any proof to support what you say.

QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
That's another of the problems with no-name third parties that I've already mentioned in this thread. They can print absolutely anything they like on the label, true or not. I'd wager that battery pack contains nowhere near 3500mAh. Honestly, I'd be surprised if it provides much more than the Pentax version, if any at all. With a name-brand battery, you at least have a reasonable expectation that the battery will provide somewhere near what's printed on the label. With the no-name third party battery, that's often not the case, and a battery that's claimed to offer the same as or more than the original battery can turn out to offer far less charge capacity.

And I'll say it once again, by "name brand", I don't mean the same brand as the product it's used in -- I just mean a reputable company with a brand name somebody's heard of, a warranty, and a clear way for the customer to contact them. That includes the original manufacturer (Pentax or whomever), big names like Eveready etc., and lesser known names like Maha, etc. Thing is, I'm not aware of any big names other than Pentax themselves offering the D-LI90 yet. Our choices are basically Pentax, or the no-names. Hopefully that'll change, and thankfully Pentax hasn't taken the route of some manufacturers in making it so that *only* their batteries will physically work.
My experience leads me to the view that the distinction between original and aftermarket batteries is a narrow one. The question is one's personal comfort level in using 3rd party batteries. I say they are fine, but I won't go out of my way to convince others the supposed dangers whether real/imagined, proven/unproven about them.

That 3500mAh battery does indeed deliver more shots than the Pentax D-LI90 battery. I look at the manufacturer's claims of battery life with a pinch of salt. I had quite a few original Pentax D-LI50 batteries when I used the K10D & K20D and 1 or 2 delivered nowhere near the battery life I was supposed to get. YMMV.
05-26-2010, 06:13 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Where I am in Singapore, warranty for the the Pentax product covers malfunctions arising from defects in original factory materials and workmanship. The warranty does not cover any damage caused to the product, including, but not limited to battery leakages/failures as well as consequential or incidental damages arising. I'm pretty certain the same applies to other geographical regions, USA included.

This being the case, I am not entirely certain that a battery failure (whether OEM or aftermarket) or resultant damage if any, to the camera is covered by the terms of the warranty. Certainly there is no warranty card that comes specific to the original Pentax battery. So it is not an open and shut case that even using original Pentax batteries will guarantee that you get warranty cover if by our uber extreme possibility that the batteries overheat and causes the DSLR to catch fire.

Bottomline is to my understanding, battery failures aren't covered...
And I can pretty much guarantee you given the numerous media field days around battery fires, and the numerous recalls (Nikon recalled three quarters of a MILLION batteries for just four failures, remember), that regardless of anything the warranty says, you'd get a new camera if your existing one caught fire through no fault of your own. You probably wouldn't even have to stamp your feet to get it. Odds are a reputable company would be extremely eager to get the faulty battery back so they could inspect it and be sure whether or not they had a larger problem on their hands.

That is, if it was an original battery. If it was a third-party battery, it's very unlikely they'd have any interest in doing anything other than giving you a quote for the parts and labor for repair.

QuoteQuote:
Well maybe they can or maybe they can't, but you don't have any proof to support what you say.
Nothing specific to Pentax, but the fact that one of Pentax's main rivals, who have a fairly similar corporate culture, recalled three quarters of a million batteries for just four failures is a fairly good indicator.

QuoteQuote:
My experience leads me to the view that the distinction between original and aftermarket batteries is a narrow one. The question is one's personal comfort level in using 3rd party batteries. I say they are fine, but I won't go out of my way to convince others the supposed dangers whether real/imagined, proven/unproven about them.
That's fair enough. Equally, I won't bash somebody over the head to get them not to use third party batteries -- I'll just point out the advantages and disadvantages. They go quite a way beyond just supporting the company that made your camera.

QuoteQuote:
That 3500mAh battery does indeed deliver more shots than the Pentax D-LI90 battery. I look at the manufacturer's claims of battery life with a pinch of salt. I had quite a few original Pentax D-LI50 batteries when I used the K10D & K20D and 1 or 2 delivered nowhere near the battery life I was supposed to get. YMMV.
How many real Pentax D-LI90 batteries have you compared to out of curiosity, and have you done a controlled test, or is this just your gut feeling?

And would you say the third party battery gives 85% more shots than the Pentax ones, which it should do if their claim is true?
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