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03-02-2010, 11:26 PM   #31
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I wonder if...

If Pentax dropped their price down to $75 for the grip...I bet you EVERY K-7 owner would buy one. Instead of the 1 in 50 who spend $200 +/- on one now. I know R&D costs money, but at the end of the day, it's just a grip, not rocket science and exotic materials...and if everybody bought one at $75 each instead of very few at $200 each...simple math gets them a much higher return. Pentax needs to lay the crack pipe down and start offering the grip at a real world price for what it actually is.

Jason

03-03-2010, 12:19 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
The genuine D-BG4 can be had new for under $200 without any rebates or coupons, so really you can only get three fake grips for the price of one new one. That means you have two to spare...
Here in The Netherlands it is something like 250 Euro (338 dollar at the present dollar price), so in fact i have more than 5 to spare

QuoteQuote:
plus the risk to your vastly more expensive camera body from using a clone. Equally, you likely have no recourse if the grip fails in a month or two, except to buy another.
What can possibly go wrong or broken with a grip. It is nothing more than a very simple plastic box, some pieces of metal, a couple of switches and 10cm of wiring. It is even almost impossible to blow you're camera with it. The only thing that i can possibly think of (and i am an elecric engineer), is that it shortcircuit some (or all) the contacts and than you're camera thinks you are pressing all the buttons at the same time.

QuoteQuote:
Which isn't to say it's necessarily the wrong choice - just that it's a gamble.
I love those gambles, no risk and almost 100% chance of winning

QuoteQuote:
I'm surprised that they can get away with selling it, to be honest - it's clearly a ripoff of Pentax's design right down to the position of every last screw.
Indeed, but HongKong can get away with a lot of things (and in this case luckely for us )

QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
I wonder if...

If Pentax dropped their price down to $75 for the grip...I bet you EVERY K-7 owner would buy one. Instead of the 1 in 50 who spend $200 +/- on one now. I know R&D costs money, but at the end of the day, it's just a grip, not rocket science and exotic materials...and if everybody bought one at $75 each instead of very few at $200 each...simple math gets them a much higher return. Pentax needs to lay the crack pipe down and start offering the grip at a real world price for what it actually is.

Jason
Totally agree.
As i wrote earlyer, Philips had such a construction with there first electric iron, small profit per item, huge number of items sold, and the best single sold item in numbers in the long history of Philips.
250 euro for a simpel plastic box with some switches and a bit of wiring that hardly need any RD is totally absurd.
The production costs will not be more than a handfull of dollars. If DX can sell it for 55 dollar included free shipping worldwide, and still make a profit, Pentax could do the same. They could even make 50 dollar extra, i think even 100 dollar is still a good price for an origingal weather-sealed grip.

Last edited by Sakura; 03-03-2010 at 01:50 AM.
03-03-2010, 03:45 AM   #33
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My DX grip barely leaves my camera. It's great - looks and feels original, only the clickwheels have a different (more "clicky") feel to them than Pentax. They are still perfectly usable and reliable, just different.

I do not like stealing from Pentax (as this arguably is), nor do I like the lack of warranty or weathersealing, but the price for the original grip in the UK is silly. I would have definitely bought an original grip at 100.

The "DX can make them for $50, why can't Pentax" argument isn't entirely fair to be honest. The HK cloners have no quality control, no R&D, marketing or customer service costs to worry about. It's entirely possible that the extra grips are made in the same factories and from the same parts as the originals, in after hours production runs - thus at basically no cost (I'm not convinced that's the case here, but it's certainly common enough).
03-03-2010, 05:04 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by PolishMike Quote
The "DX can make them for $50, why can't Pentax" argument isn't entirely fair to be honest. The HK cloners have no quality control, no R&D, marketing or customer service costs to worry about. It's entirely possible that the extra grips are made in the same factories and from the same parts as the originals, in after hours production runs - thus at basically no cost (I'm not convinced that's the case here, but it's certainly common enough).
I only partly agree. R&D costs for the grip are next to nothing. Any develouper can design a grip in a couple of hours. Add to it prototyping and testing, and if it are extremely slow working people, it won't take more than a week.
Marketing isn't really an issue either, it lifts for free with the marketing for the K-7 (i even haven't seen marketing for the grip itself anywhere on the internet or in the shops)
Production costs are the same as production costs that DX have to make. Add to it that Pentax easely could sell there grip for $75 to $100 and they will make a huge profit.

And the stealing argument, well, for some people it would go, but i don't count myself as stealing, because i would never buy the grip for €250.-
If there wouldn't exist 3-rd party grips, i simply would go without a grip for the simple fact that i can't spare the money for a 250 euro grip.

Same thing goes for example Adobe Photoshop CS4. I am using the program, but am i stealing, is Adobe missing any income because i am using there program?
I would never buy a program for over 1200 euro, so they never would have any income on my account. I would use a freeware program if i wasn't able to get my hands on CS4.
And for them goes the same thing as te grip of Pentax. If they would sell there product for a reasenbly price, they would sell much much more.
They could even use older versions for it. They could use CS2 as example for the home market for a low price. It wouldn't cost them more than a paypal account and an email for mailing the licency code after payment.

But to go back on topic, am i stealing from Pentax?
No i am not !!


Last edited by Sakura; 03-03-2010 at 05:38 AM.
03-03-2010, 11:32 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Pentax needs to lay the crack pipe down and start offering the grip at a real world price for what it actually is.
List pricing for the Pentax grip is in line with list pricing for other weather-sealed original manufacturer battery grips for current models of the K-7's vintage from the likes of Canon or Nikon. Street pricing for the Pentax grip is in some cases $40-50 lower, in some cases $40-50 higher, likely depending on the sales volume of the cameras in question.
03-03-2010, 01:15 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
List pricing for the Pentax grip is in line with list pricing for other weather-sealed original manufacturer battery grips for current models of the K-7's vintage from the likes of Canon or Nikon. Street pricing for the Pentax grip is in some cases $40-50 lower, in some cases $40-50 higher, likely depending on the sales volume of the cameras in question.
So, that won't make it still way way way overprized and totally wrong marketing.

Luckely DX (and other 3-rd party manufacturers) have noticed that and offer a grip for a normal price.

Pentax can never say there isn't a good market for grips, because the real life proofs that there is a large market for them, only not for the extremely unneccecary high prices Pentax uses.
03-03-2010, 01:39 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
List pricing for the Pentax grip is in line with list pricing for other weather-sealed original manufacturer battery grips for current models of the K-7's vintage from the likes of Canon or Nikon. Street pricing for the Pentax grip is in some cases $40-50 lower, in some cases $40-50 higher, likely depending on the sales volume of the cameras in question.
I know this, but I still feel the grip is highly over priced for a plastic shell, covered in tolex and has a bout 50 cents worth of electronic switches inside...regardless of what Canon and Nikon sell theirs for, if they came down to $75, they sell as many as they could make and put the other guys who are selling damn good knock offs for $57 out of business. If it's the weather sealing that adds $125 to the value of the grip, you would be amazed at what 2 cents worth of silicon beading and a careful hand can do.

Jason
03-03-2010, 03:34 PM   #38
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I bought the type 2 grip from China for around $55usd, should be here in a day or two. Let's see how it compare w/ the original ones when I have it. I don't really use the grip much, but sometimes when I'm using a big lens like FA*80-200, the grip would help balancing the whole setup.

03-03-2010, 11:39 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sakura Quote
So, that won't make it still way way way overprized and totally wrong marketing.
If Pentax and all its competitors were overpricing, they wouldn't have a market.

QuoteQuote:
Luckely DX (and other 3-rd party manufacturers) have noticed that and offer a grip for a normal price.
DX doesn't have to pay for development, certification, warranty, tech support, etc. Heck, if (as happens with quite a few products) their grips are being turned out after-hours by a Pentax supplier, there's a fair chance they don't even have to pay for some or all of the tooling and / or materials costs. (I'm not saying it's the case here, but it isn't uncommon for third party items to be made on the same product line as the real ones, by the same employees but using substandard components that were rejected as faulty by the original manufacturer's specification).

QuoteQuote:
Pentax can never say there isn't a good market for grips, because the real life proofs that there is a large market for them, only not for the extremely unneccecary high prices Pentax uses.
What real life proof, please? I'd wager that less than 1 in 4 prosumer DSLR buyers ever purchases a portrait grip based on how seldom I see others using them. Probably a lot less than that, to be honest. I certainly won't claim to have "real life proof" of my feeling though, and I highly doubt you do either.
03-04-2010, 11:50 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
What real life proof, please? I'd wager that less than 1 in 4 prosumer DSLR buyers ever purchases a portrait grip based on how seldom I see others using them. Probably a lot less than that, to be honest. I certainly won't claim to have "real life proof" of my feeling though, and I highly doubt you do either.
I am totally not suprised because the grip is way overprized, people (including me) would rather buy a lens than a grip for $338.
Believe me, if Pentax would price there grip at a normal price, almost everybode would buy one. If it would only be to be able to use normal AA battery's for those critical moments you're accu would run dry.
For me that is the main reason i have bought the grip, but never would have bought it if DX (and others) wouldn't have offered them at a normal price.

As said, there are almost no costs for R&D, almost no material costs, the only thing that is left are the production costs, including the machinery and the factory space needed for production.
If Pentax decided not to make 500% profit but 100% profit for this grip, they would make a lot more money.

And warranty for the grip, what warranty, what can possibly go wrong with a stupid plastic box with some switches and 10cm of wiring.
And on top of that, even DX offers you 60 days of warranty.

Last edited by Sakura; 03-04-2010 at 12:23 PM.
03-04-2010, 04:22 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sakura Quote
I am totally not suprised because the grip is way overprized, people (including me) would rather buy a lens than a grip for $338.
Believe me, if Pentax would price there grip at a normal price, almost everybode would buy one. If it would only be to be able to use normal AA battery's for those critical moments you're accu would run dry.
For me that is the main reason i have bought the grip, but never would have bought it if DX (and others) wouldn't have offered them at a normal price.

As said, there are almost no costs for R&D, almost no material costs, the only thing that is left are the production costs, including the machinery and the factory space needed for production.
If Pentax decided not to make 500% profit but 100% profit for this grip, they would make a lot more money.

And warranty for the grip, what warranty, what can possibly go wrong with a stupid plastic box with some switches and 10cm of wiring.
And on top of that, even DX offers you 60 days of warranty.
So in other words, there is no "real life proof".
03-04-2010, 10:53 PM   #42
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Yes there is "real life proof" in the fact that several company's are making 3-rd party grips and a lot of people are buying those, a lot of forums world wide are talking about it and about the way overprizing of this plastic box by Pentax.
If you than even take in account that even more people never reed all those postings and doesn't know that there even exists something as a 3-rd party grip, than you can really say there is a lot of real-life-proof.

But the real life proof in actual numbers should come from Pentax and all those 3-rd party manufacturers if they would share there sold-item-numbers with us. But you know just like me, those numbers will never get in public. So the only real-life-proof will has to come of the postings on a lot of forums wordlwide.

Even in this topic there are at least 3 posters who already have bought a 3-rd party grip.
So how much more real-life-proof do you need on top of the real-life of people who said they have bought one.

I already know of 8 people on several forums who has bought one.

So, real-life-proof? If you take real-life-people in account, there is a lot of real-life-proof.
03-05-2010, 04:11 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sakura Quote
Yes there is "real life proof" in the fact that several company's are making 3-rd party grips and a lot of people are buying those, a lot of forums world wide are talking about it and about the way overprizing of this plastic box by Pentax.
It doesn't matter how cheap you price your products, if there is a third party out there who doesn't have a reputation to protect, doesn't have to provide a warranty, and doesn't have to do any research and development, they will always be able to do it cheaper.

The existence of cheaper ripoff products is proof of nothing.

QuoteQuote:
But the real life proof in actual numbers should come from Pentax and all those 3-rd party manufacturers if they would share there sold-item-numbers with us. But you know just like me, those numbers will never get in public. So the only real-life-proof will has to come of the postings on a lot of forums wordlwide.
In other words, you admit there's no proof whatsoever - just rampant speculation made up from meaningless, unverifiable data. (Heck, I could go make a hundred user IDs right now in different forums and post a hundred fake messages saying I bought a non-Pentax grip - and it would all mean nothing in terms of proof, because in the real world I didn't buy a single fake one. I bought the real one.)

QuoteQuote:
Even in this topic there are at least 3 posters who already have bought a 3-rd party grip.
So how much more real-life-proof do you need on top of the real-life of people who said they have bought one.
I need even one iota of proof of your original assertion that there is a "large market" for grips.

QuoteQuote:
I already know of 8 people on several forums who has bought one.
Even if that's true (and on a near-anonymous forum you have no way to know that it is), eight people isn't even a drop in the sea.
03-05-2010, 07:01 AM   #44
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QuoteQuote:
Even if that's true (and on a near-anonymous forum you have no way to know that it is), eight people isn't even a drop in the sea.
of course, those 8 people are perhaps 40% of the Pentax owners i know, and they are really a drop in the sea

Ok, lets state it an other way, there are loads and loads of proof, but whatever anyone says, you won't accept anything and stick to you're totally proven wrong opinion.

You keep talking nonsense over R&D while there isn't any R&D for a grip. Any lunatic can "design" a grip with his eyes closed on an empty corner of yesterday paper. It really isn't anything more than a stupid box with some switches. Anyone who think it needs R&D has totally no idea what he is talking about.

The entire worldwide Pentax community know that there is a huge market for a normal priced grip, but be my guest, buy a way to expensive one, no hard feelings.

Pentax has sadly enough a total wrong marketing idea with there grip. I hope someday they will see the light and start making a lot more money with a normal priced grip.

But well, i guess it is a total wayst of time talking to you about marketing. You absolutely has no idea how marketing works or even what good marketing is.

Last edited by Sakura; 03-05-2010 at 07:28 AM.
03-05-2010, 09:28 PM   #45
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Believe whatever you wish. I could care less about your personal opinion of me, so if it makes you feel better to belittle me, that's fine.

It doesn't change the fact that you are making claims about the entire market based on a samples size of eight people and zero knowledge of what it costs Pentax to produce and support the product.
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