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06-16-2007, 09:28 AM   #1
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Darn CBA! You go in to look at batteries, you come out with something different...

Well, after dropping by my shop yesterday to look at getting my Sigma flash repaired, I dropped by today looking to get new batteries.

I had brought my K110D in with me, as I wanted to show how occasionally it will drop the "charge" level in the meter and prevent me from shooting, etc.

Yet, for whatever reason, before going in to the store I had noticed online a Canadian retailer selling a K10D for $899.

Don't ask me why, but I printed out that ad, brought it into the store, they matched the price, traded in my K110D, and I walked out a happy owner of a new K10!

The 6 months I had the K110D were a real eye opener, and a happy experience. I can only imagine the fun I'll have amping up the quality with the K10!

Anyone else do something like that? Go in to look at something basic like tissues and come out with a new lens?

06-16-2007, 09:48 AM   #2
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Out of curiosity, how much did you get for the K110D? I have been thinking about doing this sometime in the future myself.
06-16-2007, 09:52 AM   #3
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Never had the same experience but, believe me, you will love the K10D!!!

I saw your answer to my post about my "near death" experience . . . I like the K10D so much that I may now buy another one . . . I sold my *istDS a few months ago so, as the K10D was airborne, I realized I could well be without camera for a long time . . . what a great reason to buy another as a backup . . . :>)
06-16-2007, 10:17 AM   #4
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I' ve heard some others even consider picking up a K100 as the backup, rather than the K10, because at least you'll have the Shake Reduction and you get the high ISO when you need it... but after dropping a flash once this week, I think I'll be more careful (-;

As to how much, Henry's has a policy that within the year, after you're past the "return for full value" point, you can get a full 50% of the value. I had bought the K110D back when it was a $700 unit, so I got half of that to put towards the now $899 K10D.

All prices Canadian.

06-16-2007, 10:33 AM   #5
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Good for ya, the K10D rocks my socks! Having said that I think I would have kept the oldie as a spare body (well if I had enough lenses for that to be worthwhile), but I guess budget didn't allow that.
06-17-2007, 07:42 AM   #6
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I broke the hotshoe on my sigma flash and they sent me a new one. Could you look at the bottom of yours and tell me how many pins you have. Mine only had 3 pins and 4 holes, is the middle one empty or should I send it in to sigma to have shoe replaced? I couldn't get sigma to answer my questions, all they kept saying was that they had to do it. It seems to work fine with the three in the corners and the center open but could I hurt my k10d if I don't have it right??

Thanks for looking,
Steph

Oh BTW it is the ef-500 super if that matters.
06-17-2007, 08:40 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by crttr Quote
I broke the hotshoe on my sigma flash and they sent me a new one. Could you look at the bottom of yours and tell me how many pins you have. Mine only had 3 pins and 4 holes, is the middle one empty or should I send it in to sigma to have shoe replaced? I couldn't get sigma to answer my questions, all they kept saying was that they had to do it. It seems to work fine with the three in the corners and the center open but could I hurt my k10d if I don't have it right??

Thanks for looking,
Steph

Oh BTW it is the ef-500 super if that matters.
Look at my thread from two days back, you'll get some pictures to compare with

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-camera-accessories/8370-just-broke...ed-advice.html
06-20-2007, 05:40 AM   #8
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K100D NiMH v. K10D Li-Ion

QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
I had brought my K110D in with me, as I wanted to show how occasionally it will drop the "charge" level in the meter and prevent me from shooting, etc.
The K110D and, even more so, the K100D really pull the amps.
There is a point where the current drops enough in just one battery, the series circuit of batteries will fail to produce enough voltage to drive anything.
If you don't respect NiMH, get quality batteries, discharge-recharge them correctly and frequently enough, you won't get 100 shots out of them.

However, the nice thing is that if you do respect NiMH, you can keep three (3) sets on you and get at least 1,000 shots (unless you really hit the flash -- maybe 600-800 then).
You can also buy non-rechargable Lithiums and get anywhere from 350-500+ -- and I always carry as set (even if partially used) as the "backup" for the remaining 100-200 shots if needbe (yes, I like to rip off over 1,000 shots).
Unfortunately, Pentax didn't spend the money (and I can't blame them) to put in voltage regulation in the K100D/K110D for Rechargeable CR-V3 (RCR-V3), so they are not an option (and I suggest you don't listen to anyone who says others -- long story, I've posted on it elsewhere before).

The K10D rechargeable Li-Ion batteries aren't nearly as cheap, and you'll only get half (or a third) as many shots as 3-4 sets of NiMH AAs for the same price. Although if you do drop $100 for a couple of more sets, Li-Ion is much easier to deal with.

06-25-2007, 07:06 PM   #9
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Actually, I'm looking at getting some batteries for the Minolta Dimage, as they take the exact battery (some with less, some with more mAh), but for much less.

So far, the Lithium battery with the K10 has been fantastic!

I had Eneloops, and some (I believe) Kodak 2600 mAh batteries. I took care of those NiMH batteries and they still would conk out at the weirdest of times... turn off and back on again, and poof! all better.
06-25-2007, 07:43 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
So far, the Lithium battery with the K10 has been fantastic!
Actually, and not to be anal, it's a rechargeable Lithium Ion (Li-Ion). There's a huge difference. Non-rechargable Lithium batteries have a completely different composition, and work at 1.2V (AA) or 2.4V (CR-V3), and charge at 1.5V (AA) or 3.0V (CR-V3).

Li-Ions require a 3.6V, charge at 4.2V, and there can be a "post-charge discharge" at 4.0V+! They are not designed for 3.0V and always, completely die, period (i.e., never to be charged again) if they drop to 2.7-2.8V -- which is well above the nominal 2.4V of 2xAA. That's why they are not designed to work on things like the K100D, anything designed for 2.4-3.0V (2xAA). Never use a Rechargeable CR-V3 (RCR-V3) in the K100D, I don't care how "regulated" people claim certain models are, Li-Ion has properties that cannot be addressed. I.e., work at 3.6V, charge at 4.2V, discharge above 3.0V, absolutely die at 2.7-2.8V.

QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
I had Eneloops, and some (I believe) Kodak 2600 mAh batteries. I took care of those NiMH batteries and they still would conk out at the weirdest of times... turn off and back on again, and poof! all better.
That's why people love Lithium, Li-Ion and, newer still, Lithium Polymer (Li-Poly) over NiMH (let alone prior NiCD). No memory effect. Better current output, especially over time and near end-of-charge, etc... That's why a 1500-2000mAh Li-Ion "lasts much longer" than a 2500mAh+ NiMH.
06-25-2007, 08:21 PM   #11
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Nothing wrong with being Anal, but I had meant rechargeable Lithium Ion (-;

As a side note, when I had K110D, the Lithium Energizer AA batteries were very decent! Never got a chance to try the CRV3's out there, as I felt that for their cost, I could get decent rechargeable AA's.

Not that it matters now, because I have a K10! So, I guess all those rechargeables will be used in the flash now...
06-26-2007, 06:43 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
Nothing wrong with being Anal, but I had meant rechargeable Lithium Ion (-;
I know. But Lithium and Li-Ion have completely different characteristics. I regularly have to point this out to K100D owners, especially the ones that use RCR-V3s. The absolute worst idea is to use a RCR-V3 in one bay, and NiMH in another. Talk about a meltdown (NiMH) and possible explosion (Li-Ion) waiting to happen!

QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
As a side note, when I had K110D, the Lithium Energizer AA batteries were very decent!
Of course! People get confused on current (real-time) versus current-time (charge). Not only does current matter more, but actual current-time is often defined on how much current you are drawing. It's not uncommon for Alkalines to only give you 1/3rd the current-time charge if you pull more than 500mA, let alone 1-2A! NiMH is beyond 2A or even 1A in cheap flavors. That's why Alkalines only give you maybe 50 shots in the K100D, let alone will show only half-charge and barely drive the AF motors.

Non-rechargeable Lithiums can often deliver 3A+ consistently and do it without any reduction in the current-time. Which is why Lithiums of 1500mAh outlast NiMH of 2500mAh -- because the latter's current-time actually drops significantly when you pull a lot of current. Better quality NiMH, when properly charged-discharged, should give you about 66-75% of what Lithiums can, although the last 100 shots or so will clearly see the AF motors limited.

Lithiums typically just "cut off" at some point, long story. Li-Ion and Li-Poly must be "cut off" to protect cells. In either case, that's why they "just deliver right up and until the end," unlike NiMH (or Alkaline for that matter).

QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
Never got a chance to try the CRV3's out there, as I felt that for their cost, I could get decent rechargeable AA's.
Or just more AA Lithiums. I personally don't see any price-performance advantage of using CR-V3s over Lithiums. You're not going to be much more at all, and they cost more than 2xAA Lithiums.

QuoteOriginally posted by FireMate Quote
Not that it matters now, because I have a K10! So, I guess all those rechargeables will be used in the flash now...
The K10D's Li-Ion battery is not expensive at all for what you get. Just be sure to buy several and charge them up so you can take 2,000 shots without interruption.

That's the only nice thing about the K100D. I can buy AA Lithiums at any store. Sure, it'll cost me $10 for about 400-600 shots and then they're dead. But it's nice to know that I can spend that $10 and get those extra 400-600 shots (or buy a couple packs for more) when I haven't had the chance to recharge.

Of course, just having three (3) K10D Li-Ion batteries would do the same, and cost less after the first 3,000 shots or so.

Last edited by bjsmith; 06-26-2007 at 06:48 AM.
06-26-2007, 11:05 AM   #13
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wow I must say thats a great deal to get half back on a 110d trade in, I would have loved to get that kind of deal with my ds when i got my k10d, instead i am stuck with a ds that i will only get eanough to buy a cup of coffe for if i sell it. well i guess its ok to have an extra body around.

as for the battery talk: I was sceptical about moving away from the AA in the DS but now I just love the new battery solution. and I believe from what i read that faster af is a bi product of that as well. one of the reason why i got convinced is that the damn things last so long! I use the battery grip with an extra battery in it though, mind you, but still, its great, I love it.

if i would wish for one thing then it would be a bit more accurate battery indicator, well accurate is not the right word perhaps, it might be accurate but the scale is just full, half full, almost gone, empty. they need to have a larger scale so you can know when to charge.

anyway congrats with the new camera and welcome to SR heaven.
06-26-2007, 11:54 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
as for the battery talk: I was sceptical about moving away from the AA in the DS but now I just love the new battery solution.
Rechargeable Li-Ion is 10x less fussy than rechargeable NiMH.
You get a charge that lasts a crapload longer, and an output that is solid until the circuits cut in (to prevent additional voltage drop, which can kill Li-Ion circuits).
As I said, most 1500mAh Li-Ions will last longer at higher current than 2500mAh NiMHs -- they just deliver a more consistent current, especially for high draws (like the K100D).

QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
and I believe from what i read that faster af is a bi product of that as well.
Yep! Because the current stays consistent, voltage doesn't drop.
Li-Ions cut off well before they are depleted (which is deadly for the cells if they do not).

With NiMH, current will drop over time, as you deplete them, or even when they just sit around.
And they just aren't as good as supplying consistent current, let alone are quirky when you recharge them.
NiMH's like to be fully cycled, and will have memory effects and other issues if you don't (not as bad as NiCD prior, but still not ideal).

Li-Ions don't need to be cycled (and you never want to deep cycle them), and take a current and just keep it.
They are more volatile, and the voltage can vary wildly -- plus they aren't available under 3.6V (charge at 4.2V), despite marketing to the contrary.
That's why you should never use Li-Ion cells as a replacement for 2x AA (2.4-3.0V) cells.

People who are putting 2x RCR-V3s (2x 3.6-4.2V) instead of 4x AA (4x 1.2-1.5V) in their K100Ds are essentially doing the same thing as taking a CPU rated for 1.5V and putting 1.8-2.1V through it.
Sure, it may work, but you'll have transconductance and utterly destroy the circuit (let alone the regulators) in no time.
People talk about how good it drives the AF motors and how they should be able to take up to 9V (from a 6V nominal) -- of course!
But motors are not the "most sensitive" portion of the K100D -- the sensor and microcontroller are.

QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
one of the reason why i got convinced is that the damn things last so long! I use the battery grip with an extra battery in it though, mind you, but still, its great, I love it.
Even if you didn't, you could carry just a spare battery and get possibly 1,500 shots -- good AF throughout.
With NiMH, I'm finding I'm changing the NiMH batteries before they are even half depleted (although I did get 500 shots with 2 sets on Saturday).

QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
if i would wish for one thing then it would be a bit more accurate battery indicator, well accurate is not the right word perhaps, it might be accurate but the scale is just full, half full, almost gone, empty. they need to have a larger scale so you can know when to charge.
Unfortunately, it's really impossible to gage "charge" which is "current-time" in "[milli]amp-hours" ([m]Ah).
They can only try to "guess" the charge left based on voltage and current being delivered.

QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
anyway congrats with the new camera and welcome to SR heaven.
Oh, definitely.
06-26-2007, 12:04 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by bjsmith Quote
Unfortunately, it's really impossible to gage "charge" which is "current-time" in "[milli]amp-hours" ([m]Ah).
They can only try to "guess" the charge left based on voltage and current being delivered.
.
Well you have those info-lithium or what they are called, that sony use. I had one in my gooood old friend the Sony V1(nice camera) and it gave the remaining battery time in minutes. Well the battery didnt last very long so I guess there are sacrifices. And of couse the sony patent.

Well I dont think its asking too much for a 5 point scale instead of a 2 point one :ugh:

well I am not complaining, just wishing
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