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LightBug · 12-23-2009, 08:31 PM

I just got a nice macro lens that has got silky smooth manual focus (Lester Dine 1:1 macro). However, K-x (and I suppose all Pentax DSLRs) only allow center focus point for it. Is there a technical reason why is this the case? Would be wonderful if we can use other focus points for manual lenses.

Thanks.

tkelly · 12-24-2009, 10:36 AM

I had the same problem with my K10D, but my K7 allows selection of focus point for manual focus confirmation. This is one of the improvements I really appreciate. I am surprised this has not received more attention.

sebberry · 12-24-2009, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by LightBug

I just got a nice macro lens that has got silky smooth manual focus (Lester Dine 1:1 macro). However, K-x (and I suppose all Pentax DSLRs) only allow center focus point for it. Is there a technical reason why is this the case? Would be wonderful if we can use other focus points for manual lenses.

Thanks.

No expert here, but I would say that the other focus points are more for the AF feature.

Focus, recompose, snap!

Wheatfield · 12-24-2009, 12:42 PM

I dunno. I just use the focusing screen and trust my eyes when I have a manual focus lens on the camera.
I'd prefer that the dancing lights would just go away when there is a manual focus lens mounted.

snostorm · 12-24-2009, 01:23 PM

Hi Lightbug,

My perspective is that there really is no technical reason, but you're really not losing any functionality from the manual focus film days where the only focusing aids were split screens or microprisms, which were at the center of the focusing screen.

When I consider the revenues sacrificed over the years by the continued backwards compatibility of the K-mount, I do not begrudge Pentax for leaving out more advanced features for manual focus lenses -- at least we can still use them with the close to the full functionality that they originally had with the bodies that they were designed for. Owners of other makes cannot nearly claim the same.

Even if their motive was blatantly to attempt to drive users to buy new AF lenses, I'll still give them kudos for not changing the essentials of the mount (and allowing users the option to use some fine MF glass, even if the company would not profit from the sales) as all of the other mfgs did with the advent of AF, leaving previous users with bags full of high quality, expensive, and essentially useless or only very basically functional glass.

. . . just my 2¢ worth. . .

reeftool · 12-24-2009, 01:46 PM

I don't think its an issue of Pentax trying to force users to buy new AF glass but the fact that the target group the camera is marketed for is very unlikely to use manual lenses at all. A very large number of people who buy "entry level" DSLR's leave them in full auto all the time.

aleonx3 · 12-24-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by tkelly

I had the same problem with my K10D, but my K7 allows selection of focus point for manual focus confirmation. This is one of the improvements I really appreciate. I am surprised this has not received more attention.

Wow, that's great... don't know if it is an AF feature - if you can select focus point on MF lens - that is better than focus and recompose (prone to error and changing perspective).

Thanks, I am waiting for my K-7....

ScooterMaxi Jim · 12-25-2009, 10:06 AM

I have the K20D - and I use one of those magnifying eyepieces that work very well, but tend to blur as you get further from the center. So, it really is unfortunate that the center focus confirmation is your only confirmation on manual focus lenses. Not only does focus change when you shift perspective (especially in close focusing and macro modes), but some lenses have significant focus field curvature.

Kudos to Pentax for upgrading the functionality of the older lenses by making the modification in the K-7. Of course, all the K-X users can say that the functionality seems pretty much the same either way (as the body has only center focus confirmation), but that is a not-so-proud "accomplishment" for Pentax. Smart marketing, though, as you will see many a K-X user upgrade triggered by this omission alone.

dlacouture · 12-25-2009, 02:02 PM

Well, just tried with my K7 and a takumar 35mm/2, and focus point is set to center only!

Guess this works with A-lenses only...

snostorm · 12-25-2009, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by dlacouture

Well, just tried with my K7 and a takumar 35mm/2, and focus point is set to center only!

Guess this works with A-lenses only...

I don't get selectable focus points on my K-7 wit my A*200/2.8, so maybe it's only with some lenses.

Scott

**LeoTaylor** · 12-25-2009, 05:29 PM

You mean my K100D can use multiple focus points?

Seriously, I switched to spot focus when I discovered I could not focus on a bird in a tree. The camera tried to grab a foreground or background branch. I have never enabled multi-point focus since. But, other people use that feature so I'm glad they have the option.

LightBug · 12-26-2009, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim

So, it really is unfortunate that the center focus confirmation is your only confirmation on manual focus lenses. Not only does focus change when you shift perspective (especially in close focusing and macro modes), but some lenses have significant focus field curvature.

Exactly, I noticed this limitation when I tried to use a third-party manual focus only macro lens. I hope selectable focus points for manual lenses become available for K-x via firmware upgrade.

Boris · 12-26-2009, 08:31 AM

I have firmware 1.01 on my K-7. Saw no reason to upgrade any further yet. I've just ran across all the menus and never could I find an option that would allow me to turn on focus confirmation for manual focus lenses off-the center. If there is such an option, I'd be glad to be pointed at it.

Raptorman · 12-26-2009, 05:32 PM

Why would you ever want to change the focusing point?

The "manual" way to change your focus point is to point the lens directly at what you want focused, and then re-compose the picture and shoot. All those focus points are for is the autofocus system. If your trying to get the focus capture thing to go off, then use the manual way and when it beeps don't touch the focus ring anymore.

Simple

LightBug · 12-26-2009, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Raptorman

Why would you ever want to change the focusing point?

The "manual" way to change your focus point is to point the lens directly at what you want focused, and then re-compose the picture and shoot. All those focus points are for is the autofocus system. If your trying to get the focus capture thing to go off, then use the manual way and when it beeps don't touch the focus ring anymore.

Simple

Sometimes focus-recompose will cause subject to not be in focus, especially in close distancing focusing such as macro shots. Hence it's convenient to have selectable focus points even for manual focusing.

Here's some background on why sometimes focus-recompose will cause focus error:

Why Focus-Recompose Sucks

BTW, I don't agree with the title of above link, I use focus-recompose a lot myself, but I would prefer to use selectable focus points whenever it may give me better result than focus-recompose.

12-23-2009, 08:31 PM	#1
LightBug Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OC, CA, USA Posts: 506	Why only center point focusing for manual lenses? I just got a nice macro lens that has got silky smooth manual focus (Lester Dine 1:1 macro). However, K-x (and I suppose all Pentax DSLRs) only allow center focus point for it. Is there a technical reason why is this the case? Would be wonderful if we can use other focus points for manual lenses. Thanks.

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12-24-2009, 10:36 AM	#2
tkelly New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 1	I had the same problem with my K10D, but my K7 allows selection of focus point for manual focus confirmation. This is one of the improvements I really appreciate. I am surprised this has not received more attention.

12-24-2009, 12:11 PM	#3
sebberry Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Frozen white North Photos: Albums Posts: 1,135	Originally posted by LightBug I just got a nice macro lens that has got silky smooth manual focus (Lester Dine 1:1 macro). However, K-x (and I suppose all Pentax DSLRs) only allow center focus point for it. Is there a technical reason why is this the case? Would be wonderful if we can use other focus points for manual lenses. Thanks. No expert here, but I would say that the other focus points are more for the AF feature. Focus, recompose, snap!

12-24-2009, 12:42 PM	#4
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,991	I dunno. I just use the focusing screen and trust my eyes when I have a manual focus lens on the camera. I'd prefer that the dancing lights would just go away when there is a manual focus lens mounted.

12-24-2009, 01:23 PM	#5
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Hi Lightbug, My perspective is that there really is no technical reason, but you're really not losing any functionality from the manual focus film days where the only focusing aids were split screens or microprisms, which were at the center of the focusing screen. When I consider the revenues sacrificed over the years by the continued backwards compatibility of the K-mount, I do not begrudge Pentax for leaving out more advanced features for manual focus lenses -- at least we can still use them with the close to the full functionality that they originally had with the bodies that they were designed for. Owners of other makes cannot nearly claim the same. Even if their motive was blatantly to attempt to drive users to buy new AF lenses, I'll still give them kudos for not changing the essentials of the mount (and allowing users the option to use some fine MF glass, even if the company would not profit from the sales) as all of the other mfgs did with the advent of AF, leaving previous users with bags full of high quality, expensive, and essentially useless or only very basically functional glass. . . . just my 2¢ worth. . .

12-24-2009, 01:46 PM	#6
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	I don't think its an issue of Pentax trying to force users to buy new AF glass but the fact that the target group the camera is marketed for is very unlikely to use manual lenses at all. A very large number of people who buy "entry level" DSLR's leave them in full auto all the time.

12-24-2009, 02:04 PM	#7
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by tkelly I had the same problem with my K10D, but my K7 allows selection of focus point for manual focus confirmation. This is one of the improvements I really appreciate. I am surprised this has not received more attention. Wow, that's great... don't know if it is an AF feature - if you can select focus point on MF lens - that is better than focus and recompose (prone to error and changing perspective). Thanks, I am waiting for my K-7....

12-25-2009, 10:06 AM	#8
ScooterMaxi Jim Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,520	I have the K20D - and I use one of those magnifying eyepieces that work very well, but tend to blur as you get further from the center. So, it really is unfortunate that the center focus confirmation is your only confirmation on manual focus lenses. Not only does focus change when you shift perspective (especially in close focusing and macro modes), but some lenses have significant focus field curvature. Kudos to Pentax for upgrading the functionality of the older lenses by making the modification in the K-7. Of course, all the K-X users can say that the functionality seems pretty much the same either way (as the body has only center focus confirmation), but that is a not-so-proud "accomplishment" for Pentax. Smart marketing, though, as you will see many a K-X user upgrade triggered by this omission alone.

12-25-2009, 02:02 PM	#9
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Well, just tried with my K7 and a takumar 35mm/2, and focus point is set to center only! Guess this works with A-lenses only...

12-25-2009, 04:03 PM	#10
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by dlacouture Well, just tried with my K7 and a takumar 35mm/2, and focus point is set to center only! Guess this works with A-lenses only... I don't get selectable focus points on my K-7 wit my A*200/2.8, so maybe it's only with some lenses. Scott

12-25-2009, 05:29 PM	#11
LeoTaylor Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Connecticut Photos: Gallery Posts: 679	You mean my K100D can use multiple focus points? Seriously, I switched to spot focus when I discovered I could not focus on a bird in a tree. The camera tried to grab a foreground or background branch. I have never enabled multi-point focus since. But, other people use that feature so I'm glad they have the option.

12-26-2009, 04:23 AM	#12
LightBug Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OC, CA, USA Posts: 506 Original Poster	Originally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim So, it really is unfortunate that the center focus confirmation is your only confirmation on manual focus lenses. Not only does focus change when you shift perspective (especially in close focusing and macro modes), but some lenses have significant focus field curvature. Exactly, I noticed this limitation when I tried to use a third-party manual focus only macro lens. I hope selectable focus points for manual lenses become available for K-x via firmware upgrade.

12-26-2009, 08:31 AM	#13
Boris Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Israel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 932	I have firmware 1.01 on my K-7. Saw no reason to upgrade any further yet. I've just ran across all the menus and never could I find an option that would allow me to turn on focus confirmation for manual focus lenses off-the center. If there is such an option, I'd be glad to be pointed at it.

12-26-2009, 05:32 PM	#14
Raptorman Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere in VA Posts: 104	Why would you ever want to change the focusing point? The "manual" way to change your focus point is to point the lens directly at what you want focused, and then re-compose the picture and shoot. All those focus points are for is the autofocus system. If your trying to get the focus capture thing to go off, then use the manual way and when it beeps don't touch the focus ring anymore. Simple

12-26-2009, 06:51 PM	#15
LightBug Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OC, CA, USA Posts: 506 Original Poster	Originally posted by Raptorman Why would you ever want to change the focusing point? The "manual" way to change your focus point is to point the lens directly at what you want focused, and then re-compose the picture and shoot. All those focus points are for is the autofocus system. If your trying to get the focus capture thing to go off, then use the manual way and when it beeps don't touch the focus ring anymore. Simple Sometimes focus-recompose will cause subject to not be in focus, especially in close distancing focusing such as macro shots. Hence it's convenient to have selectable focus points even for manual focusing. Here's some background on why sometimes focus-recompose will cause focus error: Why Focus-Recompose Sucks BTW, I don't agree with the title of above link, I use focus-recompose a lot myself, but I would prefer to use selectable focus points whenever it may give me better result than focus-recompose.

Why only center point focusing for manual lenses?

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