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12-27-2009, 06:22 AM   #16
axl
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Don't own K-x nor K-7. but...
In the store where I'm buying 2nd hand lenses they always let me handle some new stuff. So I gave a qiuck go to both above mentioned. On that experience alone I'd go for K-7 over K-x at ANY given time. I guess for some it's all about sensor for some it's about other aspects. I've seen what the Samsung CMOS in K-7 can do from my wife's GX20. And coupled with the body of K-7 it must be one great combo (I just happen to prefer bigger cameras so I'm sticking with K10/GX20 for now). Compared to it, no matter how great sensor in K-x is, the build of it just feels like .... toy, let's say, and that's very nicely said
I think both new Ks were major hits. The retailers (wherever I ask) say they can't get enough of K-7 and K-x equaly.
I hope this trend will continue...

12-27-2009, 06:25 AM   #17
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I just dislike people bashing cameras... brand or model-wise...

There really is no "better" in terms of equipment when producing good photo's.. Sure there might be "better" in terms of feature-set, but if you have no taste or skill or whatever you want to call it, you're just gonna spurt dribble out of your camera (ok, a bit harsh, but who cares at this point)...

Hell, there's probably people out there with a K1000 that can shoot better photos than the majority of us...

Just my scratched and soiled 2 cents...
12-27-2009, 07:51 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
Looks like the K-x is a major hit.

I bought a K-x just because of the sensor ... weather sealing, two dials, bla ,bla ,bla don't mean crap. It is "ALL" about the sensor.

Pentax has now got to produce cameras that at "LEAST" equal the K-x in sensor quality. No more K-7 cameras that don't compete with my K-20 after 18 Months of R&D.

Pentax has raised the bar ... looking forward to the K-7 replacement, glad I did not purchase a K-7, but bought another K-20D instead.

BTW, using K-x Video to post business products tomorrow ... fantastic, but remember, if it was not for the high quality of the sensor, I would be using a video camera and not the K-x, sensor quality FOR "STILL WORK IS OMNIPOTENT" !!!!!


wll
Guys, I'm sorry, I did not mean to get folks upset.

Yes I know the K-7 is a very fine camera and has pro features that out do my K-20D by far.

What I should have said is that sensor technology is moving at a very fast pace and each generation is better than the next, all most to the fact whether it is in a top of the line camera or a starters model.

Again I apologize for the post being inflammatory !


wll
12-27-2009, 08:40 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
Guys, I'm sorry, I did not mean to get folks upset.

Yes I know the K-7 is a very fine camera and has pro features that out do my K-20D by far.

What I should have said is that sensor technology is moving at a very fast pace and each generation is better than the next, all most to the fact whether it is in a top of the line camera or a starters model.

Again I apologize for the post being inflammatory !


wll
Well, with that all sorted out - all is right with the world now... and by world, i mean pentax forums... and by sorted out, i mean less angered :P

12-27-2009, 09:30 AM   #20
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Agreed that the Kx is a great entry level camera, and it boasts great handling of the "ISO stuff" , seemingly ... I don't own one so I can't comment further on that. I would probably entertain the thought of getting one as an "extra" if I had the budget for it, but since I also have a K20D ...

I acquired the K7 a few weeks ago and loved it right away. I even got the grip that goes with it. Since I shoot low ISO's, most of the time, that is not an issue although I have "tested" it many times at ISO's from 1000 and up.
I won't list out what is great about the K7 ... everyone knows that already.

I think this thread has become, like many others on that same subject, a war zone. That is unfortunate, especially when this very Forum is all about Pentax and I am again disappointed to see the recurring "bashing" of a Pentax product.

Everyone who responded to this thread have valid arguments. We can "argue" on several aspects of a brand but we don't need to bash a product which we all share.
12-27-2009, 11:30 AM   #21
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Excellent answer LeDave. I really do agree that there is no point to talk crap about pentax since this is a forum for those who love pentax. If there is someone who does not like pentax in any way please go and talk shit on sonikanolimpus forums or etc. Just because K-7 is not an ISO God at 3200 or 6400 does not mean it is bad camera. Personally I would go (and probably will) for K-7 since it has such a nice list of features, excellent body, excellent in looks, excellent in sound and so on. Please be happy with your highly liked Kx but don't talk shit about K-7 ( I suppose author even can't afford it and he is jealous a bit). Peace all
12-27-2009, 01:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
Why don't you just cut it out? I've read some of your posts and you just love bashing the K-7 don't you? We know you're angry that the K-7 wasn't the camera you hoped it to be and that's enough, we know and we've heard what you had to say. No need to keep on ranting about it over and over again. I may be defending not just my camera, but am also stating what's also real.

It's atrocious seeing all these posts over and over again from some people over again about the same thing. It's getting to the point where I'm not just stating what's real out of my head anymore, but instead am defending the Pentax K-7 from what appears to be a bunch of Canikon trolls who try to manipulate otherwise. I'm not saying people who keep ranting about their dislike about the K-7 are trolls, because obviously most and if not all that I've seen so far own Pentax cameras. But the thing is I feel like I'm defending against Canikon obsesses on the Pentax Forums itself.

I've seen less Pentax K-7 bashing on DPreview, CameraLabs, and other forums and these are multiple brand forums and not just exclusively to Pentax. Yes the K-7 is not the camera most high-ISO obsesses wanted, but nobody told them they have to want it or they have to upgrade to it. Sure I can just ignore these troll-like posts it if I want, but it's not that easy, it's a lot easier than just go somewhere else than just stay here and hear this crap bullshit from these group of people who obsessively talk about the "inferiority" of the K-7. It's just like some people who run around and talk crap about religion and Christianity. Nobody wants to hear about it but they just keep ranting about it and it gets annoying because nobody told them they had to be Christian and nobody told them they had to do this or that, yet at the same time they just go around and discourage and bring down the good man who has never done anything wrong. We're all Pentax users here and there's absolutely no need for that kind of "hatred". I don't understand how some people could just bash a Pentax like the K-7, bashing it as if they exclusively own a Canon of their own and some-how developed profound hatred for the K-7, and just want to talk crap about it every time someone brings it up.

We should be all helping each other out instead of dishing out crap that other people dearly love and own, as if they're trying to some-how discourage them for owning that camera. Some people act as if they owned the camera and hated it; yet instead of actually doing so and knowing what it's capabilities are, they just go around and deliberately try to dismantle what it's capable of. Sure you don't like the K-7 and saying so is enough for us to understand, but going around and just plummeting it without proper incentive isn't very bright. Like I said, we're all Pentax users and if you don't like the K-7 then you don't like it, just don't buy it, don't try to discourage others. I'm not saying that you have to be a "fanboy" and only talk nicely about it; you own a Pentax and yet you dislike on a certain camera made by Pentax in such a distinct way that it's considered hate. I'm not saying that you have to be a Canikon to hate on Pentax or the K-7; if you get what I'm trying to say, at least show some respect and respect for those who own and like the K-7.

That's all I have to say about that and am just releasing what my thoughts about this before I'm done seeing more of these bs posts; if people just want to keep on going about the K-7 being "inferior" then that's just fine, I am done listening to all this.
I haven't read all of what you have written, too many black letters for me.
Again i do not agree with what you said for following reasons.

1. my criticism of k7 is about sensor not about camera, which is difficult to differentiate for some people it seems.
2. on many occasions i have said that i think k7 is superior camera body. If you want i can copy and paste for you from my previous posts.
3. KX has higher DR and better high isos performance, and this is proven fact,no matter how much you like your k7, this fact is not going to change. I am waiting for you prove it otherwise.

4. When i said point three, one of the fanboy dismissed them by saying that
a : i can not afford it so i am just crying about it.
b: i should learn to take photos.
anyway this is personal attack in my book. Which is biggest forum no-no. He got reply in kind and now crying around.

5. You can prove me wrong or chose to attack me personally, i leave it to you. You will also get the same response from me then.

6. You seems to be one of the guys who is too agitated because someone said something bad about your toys. Relax its just a camera.

7. Please point me to any test that shows that k7 has better DR at base isos, and has less noise at higher isos. If you can not do it, then please stop telling me what to say and what not to say in forums.
12-27-2009, 02:57 PM   #23
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Those that feel the sensor is the only important part of a camera should have bought it when it first came out in the other brand bodies!
thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #25 in compact camera forum. Enter # 26. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!

12-27-2009, 03:08 PM   #24
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I for one have sent back my k-x and am in the process of getting the k7. If its all about the sensor yeah it is good at high iso's, however the sharpness just didn't compaire with my k20d I sold a while back. Anyhow though, if shot in raw the noise it exhibits is better than a d300 and canon 50d...how hard is it to just batch process these and add a little noise reduction thats on par with the k-x...after owning it and the k20d I can say the higher iso's will retain more details and still look just as good. As far as lower iso's the k20d had it beat hands down.

I for one was not impressed but it could be the perfect camera for someone with different needs than myself.
12-27-2009, 03:28 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by harleynitelite Quote
I for one have sent back my k-x and am in the process of getting the k7. If its all about the sensor yeah it is good at high iso's, however the sharpness just didn't compaire with my k20d I sold a while back. Anyhow though, if shot in raw the noise it exhibits is better than a d300 and canon 50d...how hard is it to just batch process these and add a little noise reduction thats on par with the k-x...after owning it and the k20d I can say the higher iso's will retain more details and still look just as good. As far as lower iso's the k20d had it beat hands down.

I for one was not impressed but it could be the perfect camera for someone with different needs than myself.
That is a great answer.

Different folks look for different things. One is not bad, it is just different. I would like the best of all worlds, but that is not being realistic.

wll
12-27-2009, 04:13 PM   #26
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I didnít read the OP as putting down the choice of others. Just that he is happy about what he has got for himself. I think the Kx and K7 complement each other well. Iím really looking forward to what the next moves will be from Pentax, both in camera and lenses.
I like the sensor from K20, I hope they refine it even more. Plenty of crop potential, and I want that in my next camera; if they donít use the same sensor in K8, then Iíll get the K7 instead.

I also read reports from people on areas they found the K7 to handle better than their K20.

But I of cause also understand those that prefer the Kx. Seems users in Japan are split over the K7 and Kx as well :
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/858900-post8.html


Falk has also done some good work, comparing the data from K7, K20, Kx, etc. :
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/842043-post28.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/844373-post6.html

Last edited by Jonson PL; 12-27-2009 at 04:22 PM.
12-27-2009, 05:34 PM   #27
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Honestly I think Pentax can learn a lot from both cameras.

The ergonomics on the K-7 are superb in my opinion -- even better than the K20D except for the locked mode wheel that can be annoying. The responsiveness, autofocus, and lowlight performance of the K-7 is better than all previous and current Pentax models, but with some refinement they can do even better. Pentax also managed to fit all of this into a relatively small package, which people seemed to like quite a bit, and I would expect this to be the rule for all Pentax models in the near future.

Still, the OPs point is well taken. Although the K-7 sensor is not a "dud" as I have seen it described by some of its detractors, it does not excel in high ISO noise like many of its competitors, and this is important to many consumers. So Pentax can learn from the K-x that you can get a lot of attention even from an entry model if it does one thing that people value really really well.

Personally, just as casual speculation, I wouldn't be surprised to see a sort of combination of the K-7 and K-x next year, along with some other high end model with more megapixels, so consumers can choose between either high ISO performance or that resolution boost. I may be in the market for a second camera at this time and if they do this I'm not sure which one I would choose in this scenario. Just goes to show that there are different things you have to weigh when buying a camera, especially as they become more specialized for certain tasks.

Oh, one more thing. Future Pentax cameras will probably all have HD movie mode and come in lots and lots of different colors

Last edited by Urkeldaedalus; 12-27-2009 at 05:43 PM.
12-27-2009, 06:09 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kent Quote
Please be happy with your highly liked Kx but don't talk shit about K-7 ( I suppose author even can't afford it and he is jealous a bit). Peace all
Interesting, I could afford a dozen k7's but I skipped it and bought the K-x to pair with my K20D instead. Pentax are slowly climbing the ladder, the k7 is a great camera but by comparison to other marques Pentax still has far to go.
12-27-2009, 09:47 PM   #29
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Other than sensor technology, I am wondering what else would you expect from a new Pentax DSLR in terms of upgrades?

I also think it will take some time until we'll see a completely new model from Pentax - like the K-7 was a full upgrade over K10D. I expect the next model will be a partial upgrade, like the K20D was - a K10D with a better sensor. I'm wondering what will come after that obvious model.
12-27-2009, 11:19 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Other than sensor technology, I am wondering what else would you expect from a new Pentax DSLR in terms of upgrades?

I also think it will take some time until we'll see a completely new model from Pentax - like the K-7 was a full upgrade over K10D. I expect the next model will be a partial upgrade, like the K20D was - a K10D with a better sensor. I'm wondering what will come after that obvious model.

for me the biggest update that pentax bought with k7 was new autofocus which was much better than previous models.
Pentax faced two big criticism with its old models:
1. autofocus
2. noise at high isos.

With k7 they adressed it, with kx they addressed the second complain.

In terms of new things, I am expecting them to come up with full frame. Not because whether some users need or not. But because to stand shoulder to shoulder with big players like nikon/canon/sony. (sony is not so big but still has better share than pentax).

Autofocus would improve i guess and hopefully they keep their alliance with sony for sensors.

They might extend their multicolor scheme to other cams too because of its success with kx. I wouldn't be surprised if other manufactures follow pentax on this one.

kx has been winner for them hopefully they build on it.
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