Redundant features

herzzreh · 01-06-2010, 12:08 AM

My K10d has a couple of redundant features...

* focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses.
* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

Damn Brit · 01-06-2010, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

My K10d has a couple of redundant features...

* focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses.
* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

To you maybe, but I think a lot of people would disagree with you.
Arrogance doesn't make you right.

**Ash** · 01-06-2010, 12:42 AM

You may have the option of auto ISO in TAv mode, but why would you want it set that way?
Big deal if the camera allows that combination.

I'm a half-depress AF person, but have found the AF button useful on occasion - this one's definitely not redundant.

Zebooka · 01-06-2010, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

My K10d has a couple of redundant features...

* focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses.
* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

I use AF button. Half press does not AF camera in my configuration. I prefer to focus only when I want it.

TAv - when you need specific aperture and shutter speed. (For example fast shutter and closed aperture).

asdf · 01-06-2010, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

Yeah, I'd like a dial or two more, as well.

I shoot with gloves on, in winter.

Fogel70 · 01-06-2010, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

My K10d has a couple of redundant features...
* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

The whole point with TAv that you have auto-ISO without possibillity to set ISO manually.
In ISO settings you choose lowest and highest ISO to be used in TAv.

TAv without auto-ISO would be the same as manual mode.

I'm really glad Pentax have two modes for this because on cameras where you can use auto-ISO in manual mode you might forget you have auto-ISO on next time you use it.

Ian Tokeo · 01-06-2010, 09:46 AM

I use TAv mode with auto ISO when shooting sports with flash. This lets me keep the lens stopped down a bit to give me a little extra depth of field, while keeping the shutter speed high enough to stop action.

Maybe I'm missing something, but as Fogel said, wouldn't TAv without auto ISO be manual mode?

Marc Sabatella · 01-06-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by herzzreh

* focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses.

I'm not sure if you just aren't understanding what this option does, or why anyone would want it, but it's actually not redundant at all, as others have said - it's indeed an absolutely essential feature for many photographers. Some like the camera to focus anew with each shot, some like to be in control of when the camera focuses. This option allows you to select which way the camera works for you. A camera that offered only one method of the other would be useless to a sizable number of photographers.

Quote:

* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

I assume you mean, auto ISO *in M mode*, which would indeed seem similar to TAv mode? I would think the advantage of having TAv would simply be that it's an easier way to access that functionality from another mode - a simple turn of the mode dial, as opposed to a turn of the mode dial followed by a change of the ISO to "auto".

Marc Sabatella · 01-06-2010, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Ian Tokeo

Maybe I'm missing something, but as Fogel said, wouldn't TAv without auto ISO be manual mode?

As I understand it, the point of TAv mode is that it provides the effect of auto ISO without actually having to change your ISO setting to "auto". You can have your ISO sert to whatever you want in other modes, but as soon as you switch to TAv mode, ISO automatically floats. Otherwise, it would indeed be the same as M.

reeftool · 01-06-2010, 10:48 AM

I'm also a K10D owner and probably don't use half of all the "fancy features" that camera offers. That doesn't mean someone else won't take advantage of that feature as many have already posted. This is something you will probably find on every brand of DSLR. It allows the user to custom tailor some of the modes to his/her style of shooting. WHile some may consider it redundant, others may consider it essential, especially camera reviewers.

Ian Tokeo · 01-06-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

As I understand it, the point of TAv mode is that it provides the effect of auto ISO without actually having to change your ISO setting to "auto". You can have your ISO sert to whatever you want in other modes, but as soon as you switch to TAv mode, ISO automatically floats. Otherwise, it would indeed be the same as M.

OK, since you put it that way it suddenly makes sense. The only time I use auto ISO is in conjunction with TAv mode, which I only use under very specific circumstances, as I mentioned previously. Otherwise, I've always got ISO assigned to one of the control wheels.

dosdan · 01-06-2010, 04:30 PM

I use TAv mode a lot for U7 soccer. I set the aperture to F6.7, F8 or F9.5 (I like a bit of DOF - U7's soccer is played on small fields and the kids bunch up and I want to get as many expressions as possible clear in the shot), the shutter speed set to 1/500s, 1/750s or 1/1000s and I let the ISO vary between my set limits of ISO 100-1600. The combination I choose depends on whether the day is sunny or overcast.

Here's an ISO analysis from a game where I used two different TAv settings:

Setting 1: 1/1000s, F8
Count: 136 shots
ISO 280: 90 shots
ISO 400: 32 shots
ISO 560: 10 shots
ISO 800: 1 shot
ISO 1100: 3 shots (sideline throw-ins from a shadowed part of the field & with dark backgrounds)

Setting 2: 1/750s, F9.5
Count: 59 shots
ISO 280: 45 shots
ISO 400: 11 shots
ISO 560: 3 shots

Here's an example, taken at 230mm FL (so DOF is reduced), 50% cropped and adjusted for back lighting, showing the "group" aspect of it (you can click to follow):

Dan.

bigonroad · 01-06-2010, 04:47 PM

I'm with reeftool on that one. Just because I don't use all the feature doesnt mean im not glad they are there. What annoys me most with computers (and cameras) is when they take away options, under the excuse "to make it simpler for people". What about all us guys who like the other way, and now can't do it.

Now just stop me before I forget what we are discussing and start ranting about the Ribbon in Office 2007...

Wheatfield · 01-06-2010, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by herzzreh

My K10d has a couple of redundant features...

* focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses.
* TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this?

On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

Most cameras have redundant features.
Except that what you find redundant, someone else might find absolutely necessary.
I truly hope Pentax never comes out with a monstrosity like the Minolta 7D.

unkabin · 01-06-2010, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Most cameras have redundant features.
Except that what you find redundant, someone else might find absolutely necessary.
I truly hope Pentax never comes out with a monstrosity like the Minolta 7D.

Have you spent any time using a 7D?

01-06-2010, 12:08 AM	#1
herzzreh Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 72	Redundant features My K10d has a couple of redundant features... * focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses. * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons!

01-06-2010, 04:30 PM	#12
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	I use TAv mode a lot for U7 soccer. I set the aperture to F6.7, F8 or F9.5 (I like a bit of DOF - U7's soccer is played on small fields and the kids bunch up and I want to get as many expressions as possible clear in the shot), the shutter speed set to 1/500s, 1/750s or 1/1000s and I let the ISO vary between my set limits of ISO 100-1600. The combination I choose depends on whether the day is sunny or overcast. Here's an ISO analysis from a game where I used two different TAv settings: Setting 1: 1/1000s, F8 Count: 136 shots ISO 280: 90 shots ISO 400: 32 shots ISO 560: 10 shots ISO 800: 1 shot ISO 1100: 3 shots (sideline throw-ins from a shadowed part of the field & with dark backgrounds) Setting 2: 1/750s, F9.5 Count: 59 shots ISO 280: 45 shots ISO 400: 11 shots ISO 560: 3 shots Here's an example, taken at 230mm FL (so DOF is reduced), 50% cropped and adjusted for back lighting, showing the "group" aspect of it (you can click to follow): Dan. Last edited by dosdan; 01-06-2010 at 04:49 PM.

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01-06-2010, 12:15 AM	#2
Damn Brit Guest	Originally posted by herzzreh My K10d has a couple of redundant features... * focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses. * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons! To you maybe, but I think a lot of people would disagree with you. Arrogance doesn't make you right.

01-06-2010, 12:42 AM	#3
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	You may have the option of auto ISO in TAv mode, but why would you want it set that way? Big deal if the camera allows that combination. I'm a half-depress AF person, but have found the AF button useful on occasion - this one's definitely not redundant.

01-06-2010, 02:45 AM	#4
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	Originally posted by herzzreh My K10d has a couple of redundant features... * focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses. * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons! I use AF button. Half press does not AF camera in my configuration. I prefer to focus only when I want it. TAv - when you need specific aperture and shutter speed. (For example fast shutter and closed aperture).

01-06-2010, 02:50 AM	#5
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by herzzreh On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons! Yeah, I'd like a dial or two more, as well. I shoot with gloves on, in winter.

01-06-2010, 08:18 AM	#6
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by herzzreh My K10d has a couple of redundant features... * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? The whole point with TAv that you have auto-ISO without possibillity to set ISO manually. In ISO settings you choose lowest and highest ISO to be used in TAv. TAv without auto-ISO would be the same as manual mode. I'm really glad Pentax have two modes for this because on cameras where you can use auto-ISO in manual mode you might forget you have auto-ISO on next time you use it.

01-06-2010, 09:46 AM	#7
Ian Tokeo Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Montana Photos: Gallery Posts: 52	I use TAv mode with auto ISO when shooting sports with flash. This lets me keep the lens stopped down a bit to give me a little extra depth of field, while keeping the shutter speed high enough to stop action. Maybe I'm missing something, but as Fogel said, wouldn't TAv without auto ISO be manual mode?

01-06-2010, 10:11 AM	#8
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by herzzreh * focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses. I'm not sure if you just aren't understanding what this option does, or why anyone would want it, but it's actually not redundant at all, as others have said - it's indeed an absolutely essential feature for many photographers. Some like the camera to focus anew with each shot, some like to be in control of when the camera focuses. This option allows you to select which way the camera works for you. A camera that offered only one method of the other would be useless to a sizable number of photographers. Quote: * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? I assume you mean, auto ISO in M mode, which would indeed seem similar to TAv mode? I would think the advantage of having TAv would simply be that it's an easier way to access that functionality from another mode - a simple turn of the mode dial, as opposed to a turn of the mode dial followed by a change of the ISO to "auto".

01-06-2010, 10:13 AM	#9
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Ian Tokeo Maybe I'm missing something, but as Fogel said, wouldn't TAv without auto ISO be manual mode? As I understand it, the point of TAv mode is that it provides the effect of auto ISO without actually having to change your ISO setting to "auto". You can have your ISO sert to whatever you want in other modes, but as soon as you switch to TAv mode, ISO automatically floats. Otherwise, it would indeed be the same as M.

01-06-2010, 10:48 AM	#10
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	I'm also a K10D owner and probably don't use half of all the "fancy features" that camera offers. That doesn't mean someone else won't take advantage of that feature as many have already posted. This is something you will probably find on every brand of DSLR. It allows the user to custom tailor some of the modes to his/her style of shooting. WHile some may consider it redundant, others may consider it essential, especially camera reviewers.

01-06-2010, 01:25 PM	#11
Ian Tokeo Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Montana Photos: Gallery Posts: 52	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella As I understand it, the point of TAv mode is that it provides the effect of auto ISO without actually having to change your ISO setting to "auto". You can have your ISO sert to whatever you want in other modes, but as soon as you switch to TAv mode, ISO automatically floats. Otherwise, it would indeed be the same as M. OK, since you put it that way it suddenly makes sense. The only time I use auto ISO is in conjunction with TAv mode, which I only use under very specific circumstances, as I mentioned previously. Otherwise, I've always got ISO assigned to one of the control wheels.

01-06-2010, 04:47 PM	#13
bigonroad New Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 17	I'm with reeftool on that one. Just because I don't use all the feature doesnt mean im not glad they are there. What annoys me most with computers (and cameras) is when they take away options, under the excuse "to make it simpler for people". What about all us guys who like the other way, and now can't do it. Now just stop me before I forget what we are discussing and start ranting about the Ribbon in Office 2007...

01-06-2010, 05:00 PM	#14
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by herzzreh My K10d has a couple of redundant features... * focus by AF button and by half-press. ok... AF button has other uses. * TAv and auto ISO. This is absolutely redundant. Can someone explain the reasoning behind this? On a side note. Do you think Pentax will ever come out with a camera like Minolta 7D? I loved all of those dials and buttons! Most cameras have redundant features. Except that what you find redundant, someone else might find absolutely necessary. I truly hope Pentax never comes out with a monstrosity like the Minolta 7D.

01-06-2010, 05:24 PM	#15
unkabin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Moorhead, MN Posts: 176	Originally posted by Wheatfield Most cameras have redundant features. Except that what you find redundant, someone else might find absolutely necessary. I truly hope Pentax never comes out with a monstrosity like the Minolta 7D. Have you spent any time using a 7D?