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01-07-2010, 09:00 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax DS2 and Samsung GX-1S identical clone have Pentaprism viewfinders too.

Its typically cheaper to buy an older pentax dslr to replace your same model thats broken than to pay to fix it.

$400 plus repair bill and 3 month wait versus less money to replace with good working used one in less than a week seems more appealing option to me.
I don't know your experience, I can only offer mine below and disagree fully with you!

I had my K10D fixed, when it failed. The repair which included a full cleaning (the finder was never so clean except right out of the box new), replacement of the shutter and mirror assemblies, and the lens mount. Total cost was $325 Cdn, and it took 2 weeks at Pentax Canada, This time spanned a mid week national holiday.

Show me where you can get an essentially brand new K10D for that price!

01-07-2010, 09:34 AM   #17
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A couple notes about the *IstD that I have noticed after now owning one for a month or so. (I won't go into the coolness of non-P TTL flash b/c others have already talked a lot about it).

1. It can do wireless P-TTL High Speed Sync using the built-in flash and a Pentax flash such as the AF540FGZ. Not sure any other Pentax DSLRs can do this, K-7 included. I was surprised when I figured out that the *IstD had this interesting feature. It does work and I have tested it with shutter speeds of 1/500 and faster. I haven't really tested it enough to determine the exposure reliability, but initial indoor tests were promising. Note that this is a P-TTL HSS and will only work with PK-A and later lenses.

2. The *IstD takes patience to use after using any of the more recent DSLRs. Writing a raw file to the card and viewing the preview takes several seconds, so it really is not a good camera for people that need to chimp every shot. If you are confident if you exposure abilities, and don't need to check your images then it shouldn't matter as much. The rear LCD is also very lacking when compared to the new bright 3.0" LCDs on K-7.

3. The *istD unfortunately lacks SR. It may not sound like a big deal, but using it makes you realize that you have been taking the SR in later bodies for granted. Using indoors without a flash is more difficult with this camera when compared to any of the later ones with SR.

4. High ISO of *istD definitely does not beat the newer higher pixel count sensors when the higher pixel count images are downsampled to match the older output. The newer sensors capture more detail at all ISO settings, assuming your lens can deliver. I'm comparing *istD to K-7 here, and doesn't really surprise me that 5+ years of sensor research has improved output.

So...just to summarize a bit...with a few other points...comparing to K200D & K-7.

Pros:
-------------
It's the first production pentax DSLR, how cool!
Small size, lightweight = good for packing with a small prime.
TTL flash metering for use with screw-mount, K, and M Lenses.
Wireless P-TTL high speed sync flash operation.
Dual control wheels.

Cons (against newer models):
------------
No shake reduction.
Not weather sealed.
Small size, small grip, slightly less comfortable to hold than newer models.
High ISO doesn't compete with newer sensors as much as some people claim.
Changing WB & ISO requires changing mode dial...bit of a pain.
General button placement not as ergonomic as newer models.
Build of body & feel of buttons not on the same level as newer models.
Slow as molasses if you like to chimp. And general menu operation is slow and unresponsive.
LCD is outdated, i've been spoiled with sweet K-7 LCD for image viewing.
01-07-2010, 10:15 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Yes ALL pentax DSLRs have had the lobotomy, BUT because the D and DS have a separate TTL sensor they can, providing the flash also supports TTL, do flash metering. I don't know about the DS, but my *istD even supports bot TTL and P-TTL with the built in flash.

As someone else mentioned, not all new cameras make old ones obsolete, just different.

This is also why I propose back up cameras need not be identical to your main camera. It is not a question of only back up but functionality.

If your second body offers different functionality to your main body, you are better off (In My Opinion) with 2 different bodies than 2 identical ones.

This goes back to film days. My ultimate back up is an origonal KX. the only thing it needs batteries for is the light meter. Everything else is mechanical and I have a hand held light meter just in case all the batteries die
My film backups were an MX and K1000. There was a hand-held meter in the bag, as well.
01-07-2010, 10:24 AM   #19
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I'm in USA, Pentax shut down their inhouse repairs

I'm in USA. Pentax USA shut down their inhouse repairs in Colorado in 2009.

Thesedays CRIS in Arizona , the current repair provider, repair estimates for about anything, from what I've read on forums, including dpr usually quotes $400 plus and 3 months turn around. I've read it takes them 1 month to acknowlege receipt of the broken camera or SDM motor failure lens.

Thats nice you still have Pentax Canada doing repairs (still). Proof to me that outsourcing repairs in USA wasn't done to improve service but to cut corporate costs and improve the bottom line.


QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I don't know your experience, I can only offer mine below and disagree fully with you!

I had my K10D fixed, when it failed. The repair which included a full cleaning (the finder was never so clean except right out of the box new), replacement of the shutter and mirror assemblies, and the lens mount. Total cost was $325 Cdn, and it took 2 weeks at Pentax Canada, This time spanned a mid week national holiday.

Show me where you can get an essentially brand new K10D for that price!


01-07-2010, 10:32 AM   #20
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K10D from a dealer $299-$364

K10D from a dealer $299-$364. Kinda high if you ask me, but its a business, w/employees w/overhead ect...

They got a bunch of used Pentax dslrs, some $189, enjoy !


Pentax Digital - KEH.com
01-07-2010, 11:19 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
A couple notes about the *IstD that I have noticed after now owning one for a month or so. (I won't go into the coolness of non-P TTL flash b/c others have already talked a lot about it).

1. It can do wireless P-TTL High Speed Sync using the built-in flash and a Pentax flash such as the AF540FGZ. Not sure any other Pentax DSLRs can do this, K-7 included. I was surprised when I figured out that the *IstD had this interesting feature. It does work and I have tested it with shutter speeds of 1/500 and faster. I haven't really tested it enough to determine the exposure reliability, but initial indoor tests were promising. Note that this is a P-TTL HSS and will only work with PK-A and later lenses.
page 181 of the K10D manyual says this is possible, and page 178 of the K7 manual gives instructions for High speed sync in wireless mode
QuoteQuote:

2. The *IstD takes patience to use after using any of the more recent DSLRs. Writing a raw file to the card and viewing the preview takes several seconds, so it really is not a good camera for people that need to chimp every shot. If you are confident if you exposure abilities, and don't need to check your images then it shouldn't matter as much. The rear LCD is also very lacking when compared to the new bright 3.0" LCDs on K-7.
no kidding, 1.25 inch vs 3 inch screen and it is best to go for a coffee if you need image preview in other than JPEG
QuoteQuote:

3. The *istD unfortunately lacks SR. It may not sound like a big deal, but using it makes you realize that you have been taking the SR in later bodies for granted. Using indoors without a flash is more difficult with this camera when compared to any of the later ones with SR.

4. High ISO of *istD definitely does not beat the newer higher pixel count sensors when the higher pixel count images are downsampled to match the older output. The newer sensors capture more detail at all ISO settings, assuming your lens can deliver. I'm comparing *istD to K-7 here, and doesn't really surprise me that 5+ years of sensor research has improved output.

So...just to summarize a bit...with a few other points...comparing to K200D & K-7.

Pros:
-------------
It's the first production pentax DSLR, how cool!
Small size, lightweight = good for packing with a small prime.
TTL flash metering for use with screw-mount, K, and M Lenses.
Wireless P-TTL high speed sync flash operation.
Dual control wheels.

Cons (against newer models):
------------
No shake reduction.
Not weather sealed.
no perhaps not, but if you get it wet and dry it out it will keep on working, at least mine has for more than 6 years since my kayak got swamped
QuoteQuote:
Small size, small grip, slightly less comfortable to hold than newer models.
here I agree, the K7 has a much more positive grip than the *istD which is important when using a lens in excess of 2 pounds like a 70-200 F2.8
QuoteQuote:
High ISO doesn't compete with newer sensors as much as some people claim.
Changing WB & ISO requires changing mode dial...bit of a pain.
General button placement not as ergonomic as newer models.
Build of body & feel of buttons not on the same level as newer models.
Slow as molasses if you like to chimp. And general menu operation is slow and unresponsive.
LCD is outdated, i've been spoiled with sweet K-7 LCD for image viewing.
overall,, however, when you consider how consistent a performer it is, it is not a bad little camera.
01-07-2010, 11:22 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I'm in USA. Pentax USA shut down their inhouse repairs in Colorado in 2009.

Thesedays CRIS in Arizona , the current repair provider, repair estimates for about anything, from what I've read on forums, including dpr usually quotes $400 plus and 3 months turn around. I've read it takes them 1 month to acknowlege receipt of the broken camera or SDM motor failure lens.

Thats nice you still have Pentax Canada doing repairs (still). Proof to me that outsourcing repairs in USA wasn't done to improve service but to cut corporate costs and improve the bottom line.
Maybe pentax US should have outsourced to pentax canada?

I haven't needed service prior to this but was impressed. the only complaint I have is that they have moved their office, it used to be within 3 miles, now it is 15 from where I live. Life is a bitch
01-07-2010, 12:27 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
page 181 of the K10D manyual says this is possible, and page 178 of the K7 manual gives instructions for High speed sync in wireless mode
True, BUT this requires that an AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ be attached to the camera to send the wireless HSS signal to a second 360 or 540 flash. The *istD can do this using it's own pop-up flash, which I am pretty certain that the K-7 can not do (I don't have a K10D so I can't confirm yes or no for it). It's nice b/c it doesn't require a big flash on your camera to use wireless HSS with the *istD (or the $$$ required for a second flash).

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
overall,, however, when you consider how consistent a performer it is, it is not a bad little camera.
Agreed. I still like it.

01-07-2010, 01:05 PM   #24
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Not a serious response, but I still like my DL.
I like to use it when I just want to go out and mess around (it sometimes fills in as a second backup). I don't need to worry about batteries if I can just walk into a shop and buy some. A small bag with a spare lens or two and I'm away. It's a step up from the other half's two P&Ss.
I find it fun to play with the "dummy" modes under different conditions sometimes just to see what happens. Since I have a 10 and a 20, I find that I don't worry about it as much as I do the other two. It's a nice size and some of my old lenses work well with it. Just because it's not 14mp doesn't mean it's not a nice little camera.
Just my 2p.
01-07-2010, 01:17 PM   #25
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The appeal would be that they are still fine cameras that are available for decent prices.


I like to let the idiots who chase the latest and greatest and need to buy a new camera every year keep the company in business while I am out taking pictures.
01-07-2010, 01:20 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
True, BUT this requires that an AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ be attached to the camera to send the wireless HSS signal to a second 360 or 540 flash. The *istD can do this using it's own pop-up flash, which I am pretty certain that the K-7 can not do (I don't have a K10D so I can't confirm yes or no for it). It's nice b/c it doesn't require a big flash on your camera to use wireless HSS with the *istD (or the $$$ required for a second flash).
I can't seem to get this to work on the *istD, once I go off camera shutter speed is limited to 150
01-07-2010, 01:23 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I can think of only one reason to go back in time, and this is specifically related to the *istD and DS.

these two cameras have true TTL flash capability, That means they have a dedicated exposure sensor that measured the light reflected off the surface of the imaging sensor (or film on a film camera) Since they are actually measuring light in real time during the exposure these cameras do not need to know anything about the lens settings because the lens is stopped down to it's shooting aperture at the time of flash measurement. As a result you can get excellent flash results with K mount and M42 Mount lenses, where on any later camera, you have to use the flash in full manual mode,. and do the flash calculations, or if you have an AF540FGZ you put it in Auto mode and enter the Aperture you are shooting so the flash can use it's own sensor.

This is no where near as good as TTL flash.

There are other minor good things about these bdoies, like penta prisms as opposed to mirrors, and very accurate metering with manual aperture lenses, but these are secondary to TTL flash.
And what is wrong with just using a good flash like the Metz 45 series?
I just let the flash mesure the light it needs and use my cam as a pure manual cam.
No need for TTL or other fancy flashes, just my good trusted Metz 45 CT-4 and CT-5

Second positive point is that you can get a secondhand Metz 45 series flash for a nickel and a dime.
01-07-2010, 01:26 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I can't seem to get this to work on the *istD, once I go off camera shutter speed is limited to 150
Press the small flash setting button on the top of the camera a few times. You should be able to get it into a setting that has both the 'W' and the 'HS' (indicating Wireless and High-Speed) symbols activated in the top LCD display. After you do this, you should be able to have the pop-up flash deployed and have a shutter speed higher than 150. Give it a shot and let us know. I can try it again when I get home from work to double check.
01-07-2010, 01:38 PM   #29
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yep....

QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
Press the small flash setting button on the top of the camera a few times. You should be able to get it into a setting that has both the 'W' and the 'HS' (indicating Wireless and High-Speed) symbols activated in the top LCD display. After you do this, you should be able to have the pop-up flash deployed and have a shutter speed higher than 150. Give it a shot and let us know. I can try it again when I get home from work to double check.
I just happen to have my D here at the office....and can confirm it works...at least in program and Av modes...
01-07-2010, 01:59 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
Press the small flash setting button on the top of the camera a few times. You should be able to get it into a setting that has both the 'W' and the 'HS' (indicating Wireless and High-Speed) symbols activated in the top LCD display. After you do this, you should be able to have the pop-up flash deployed and have a shutter speed higher than 150. Give it a shot and let us know. I can try it again when I get home from work to double check.
boy do I feel stupid
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