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View Poll Results: Full Frame or EVIL
EVIL 5616.28%
Full Frame 17450.58%
Neither 8023.26%
Both 349.88%
Voters: 344. You may not vote on this poll

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07-27-2010, 10:08 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
...the camera could be shaped differently today when we're not restrained by the film roll system.
The plethora of image-capturing devices that look nothing like "cameras" prove that we needn't be shackled by film-cam-based constraints. I posted a proposed design: the K-EVIL-D. Vertical orientation; lens at front top; screen at rear bottom; etc. Like it'll ever happen...

07-27-2010, 10:23 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by kari Quote
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the focal plane be much closer to the lens in an EVIL camera, meaning that the current K-mount DSLR lenses would not be usable without some sort of extension tube? Kind of defeats the purpose when you're looking for a small camera.
Yes, the focal plane could/would be closer. That would require a new micro-k-mount, thus enabling smaller lenses for the smaller body.

But an adapter, if done correctly, could allow full backward compatibility. Not everyone wants a smaller body. Too small a lens front element diameter, IQ diminishes (less light).

Those happy with an EVF or rear LCD for all framing and viewing could be EVIL purchasers (FF or APS-C or m43); those who stand by the OVF could be regular, proven DSLR witht eh same sensor options.

Again, EVIL can be FF.
07-27-2010, 11:33 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Again, EVIL can be FF.
Very true. I hadn't thought about that when I launched the survey, but a competitively priced Pentax EVIL FF may be even more attractive to Canon and Nikon owners as a second system than a Pentax EVIL APS-C.
07-27-2010, 12:00 PM   #94
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I'd take a FF sensor over the crop any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But, in the absence of that, I'm actually very content with the sensor on the kx.

07-27-2010, 01:33 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
They are not mutually incompatible. You can have an EVIL FF.

The question for EVIL is the EV. Are you willing to substitute an EV for an OV regardless of sensor size.
That would be something I would very much like to see, a FF EVIL.
07-27-2010, 03:32 PM   #96
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question should be, an EVIL APS-C or EVIL FF. man, EVIL FF anytime.
07-27-2010, 03:44 PM   #97
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I read the first 2 pages, but the context does not tell me....WTF is EVIL?
07-27-2010, 04:03 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob photo 4 life Quote
I read the first 2 pages, but the context does not tell me....WTF is EVIL?
Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens

The Olympus Pen E-PL1 and its brethren are the poster children of this genre.

07-27-2010, 04:10 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens

The Olympus Pen E-PL1 and its brethren are the poster children of this genre.
Thank you, many acronyms here to figure out. Still learning the DSLR thing.
07-27-2010, 06:14 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob photo 4 life Quote
I read the first 2 pages, but the context does not tell me....WTF is EVIL?
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens
QuoteOriginally posted by Bob photo 4 life Quote
Thank you, many acronyms here to figure out. Still learning the DSLR thing.
Lovers of EVIL (concept) but not EVIL (name) may use the acronym MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable-Lens Camera). Those who recall film just call it a RF (RangeFinder).

But wait, there's more! More acronyms, that is. Is MF for Manual Focus (lens), or Medium Format (120/220/620 film), or an unpleasant person? Is FF for Full Frame (actually double frame), or Fast Forward (who still uses tape?), or Full Frontal (nudity), or Fat Freddy? FoV, DoF, AoV, DoA, IQ, EV, PP, IR, UV, WB, AE, ND, DR, NR, RI, ISO, ASA, JPG, RAW, STP, CIA, EVF, FFM, Exif, DPoF, etc. Memorize them all. Use them in your communication. Impress the hoi-polloi.
07-27-2010, 06:31 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Lovers of EVIL (concept) but not EVIL (name) may use the acronym MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable-Lens Camera). Those who recall film just call it a RF (RangeFinder).

But wait, there's more! More acronyms, that is. Is MF for Manual Focus (lens), or Medium Format (120/220/620 film), or an unpleasant person? Is FF for Full Frame (actually double frame), or Fast Forward (who still uses tape?), or Full Frontal (nudity), or Fat Freddy? FoV, DoF, AoV, DoA, IQ, EV, PP, IR, UV, WB, AE, ND, DR, NR, RI, ISO, ASA, JPG, RAW, STP, CIA, EVF, FFM, Exif, DPoF, etc. Memorize them all. Use them in your communication. Impress the hoi-polloi.
how about PENTAX?
07-27-2010, 09:39 PM   #102
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I am sorry but the question as stated is meaningless (other then as a fashion question). The question may as well be do you want a blue camera, a red camera or a blue and red striped camera.

These things are used on cameras because of what they do.

There are advantages to an APS-C over FF. It is all about the cost to performance. For most ATT among DSLR users APS-C wins by a large margin. If you just ask someone if they want FF without stating all the differences (including all the costs) then the reader is just going to make them up and no one is going to be answering the same question.

It is all in how you pose the question. If I say would you buy a FF that had the same noise, DOF and viewfinder as an APS-C but cost 2 time more? How about these 2 cameras? Camera 1 has any performance/options you like and cost $1000 (lets say like the K7). Camera 2 is 5-10 present better in every way but costs 2-3 times more. This is kind of what you get when you go from APS-C to FF. Cost is a big part of all of this and getting the last 5-10 cost a lot more. Just wishing is not going to change it. Most cameras are not APS-C as most donít think the cost is worth it, FF even more so.

As for EVIL there is the possibility of smaller, cheaper with more information in the viewfinder. The problem ATT it is not as good for focusing, detail and in bright light as a optical viewfinder no mater how much you pay. This could and probably will change but if you donít state what has change the reader is going to make their assumptions and no one is answering the same question.

On any system like a camera there are things that can be improved. For Pentax to spend any of there money on FF and EVIL (let others spend their money and buy from them when the price is right) is not the best thing for Pentax to do, as it would cost a lot and give little improvement. There are a lot of other things they can spend money on and get more improvements out of for a lot less.

DAZ
07-28-2010, 10:51 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
But wait, there's more! More acronyms, that is. Is MF for Manual Focus (lens), or Medium Format (120/220/620 film), or an unpleasant person?
Haha, you forgot SOB - Saturation On Balance, and FU - Full Ultraviolet

I just made those up, nothing better to do here at work.
07-29-2010, 11:53 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Lovers of EVIL (concept) but not EVIL (name) may use the acronym MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable-Lens Camera). Those who recall film just call it a RF (RangeFinder).

But wait, there's more! More acronyms, that is. Is MF for Manual Focus (lens), or Medium Format (120/220/620 film), or an unpleasant person? Is FF for Full Frame (actually double frame), or Fast Forward (who still uses tape?), or Full Frontal (nudity), or Fat Freddy? FoV, DoF, AoV, DoA, IQ, EV, PP, IR, UV, WB, AE, ND, DR, NR, RI, ISO, ASA, JPG, RAW, STP, CIA, EVF, FFM, Exif, DPoF, etc. Memorize them all. Use them in your communication. Impress the hoi-polloi.
Nice, thanks for all the info. Yes, I do know rangefinder, I remember ASA, but I don't use tapes anymore. How about TLR? I used to use a Yashica, can't remember if it used 120, 620 or some similar film. It yielded large square negatives.
07-29-2010, 07:55 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob photo 4 life Quote
How about TLR? I used to use a Yashica, can't remember if it used 120, 620 or some similar film.
I think most Yashica TLRs (mine was a YashicaMat 124G) used 120 or 220. The YM124s used either. But I'm inspired to coin some more acronyms:

* ZLR - Zero-Lens Reflex: result when you drop camera, break glass
* 3LR - Three Lens Reflex: a stereo TLR, or whatever
* FLR - Fixed-Lens Reflex: the opposite of EVIL/MILC
* FFA - Full-Frame Anachronism: all those 135 film cams
* DPH - Digital PinHeads: users of other than Pentax dSLRs
* YAL - Yet Another Lens: the latest wonderful acquisition
* CLA - Camera-Losing Addiction: where *did* I put those?
* STP - Success Through Photoshop: anything can be fixed
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