What would you buy? A Full Frame Pentax or an EVIL Pentax?

lurchlarson · 07-26-2010, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by KxBlaze

I am very surprised with the results so far. I thought EVIL was the new FF, but it seems that FF is still the king of camera features.

Except EVIL is nowhere near as good at High ISO.

Boris · 07-26-2010, 10:55 PM

Both. EVIL camera for my daughter and FF camera for me. If Pentax manages to pull off automation of K mount lenses on EVIL body, that would be double, no triple, well make it quadriple swell.

But then again neither of the above is going to happen any time soon. Therefore I digress.

gaddigad · 07-27-2010, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Which one are you more interested in?
Discuss. Thanks for playing.

Since Evil is smaller and has the crop factor advantage for tele lenses, I'd prefer one over a FF. But I would only buy one if it has:

1) An APS-C sensor with high iso performance as good as on the k-x
2) A great high res electronic viewfinder
3) a large right hand grip (and as good as the one on the K100

4) Hinged (or articulated) LCD

emr · 07-27-2010, 12:37 AM

This poll is only half a year old, but many may see the situation changed during this period, so the poll results may not reliably reflect today's situation. For example 12 to 6 months ago I was really really waiting for a FF camera from Pentax, but seeing what the EVILs can do, I've begun valuing small size more and more. So today I probably wouldn't buy a big FF DSLR, but rather a good EVIL (with K mount support with an adapter or directly). Now if Pentax brought the FF EVIL or a FF DSLR no bigger than a K20D...

Billgscott · 07-27-2010, 12:39 AM

FF For me.

It seems unbelievable to me that Pentax will not launch one this year.

A while ago, there was a thread from France that a FF would be anounced this year, availaible early next, and I think that will be the case as Pentax knows that all my glass (other than kit and extreme wide angle) if FF, and they will do the right thing for me.

Seriously though, my ideal would be a 5D equivalent based on the K20D body using the same grip and batteries. The 5D is classed by Canon as a 'pro' body and that is where Pentax should be aiming. They shouldn't be looking at the 1D / 1Ds as that way lies financial ruin. I know 3 pro photogs in North Yorks and they all use 5D, or Nikon eqivalent although one has an old D3 as well.

I am not a pro, but do sell a few pics and will buy a FF Pentax if it is around the same price point as the 5D or 700D which are both cheaper than the Sony 900 as I write.

eigelb · 07-27-2010, 12:53 AM

I´m still wanting a FF Pentax but like emr says it has to be small. Smaller as the Canikonsony

Mohawk · 07-27-2010, 01:16 AM

I really couldn't care less about FF.

But I would like to see an APS-C/H Foveon chipped DSLR or EVIL. Now that would be something!

If I wanted to go larger format I'd go MF.

emr · 07-27-2010, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Mohawk

...Foveon chipped DSLR...

So you think the Foveon technology is that good? I have never even held a Foveon based camera in my hands, but I thought that the hypothetical benefits of this technology never really showed in the end results.

Mohawk · 07-27-2010, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by emr

So you think the Foveon technology is that good?

Well, yes. Unfortunately its development lags behind that of Bayer type sensors, but the potential is there for the manufacturer (other than Sigma) that wants to take it on.

And I want to be (more) different. And that's why it appeals to me much like Pentax in general.

rfortson · 07-27-2010, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

Except EVIL is nowhere near as good at High ISO.

You're correct right now, but there's no reason that has to be the case. My E-P1 is pretty good up to ISO1600, but not as good as my K20D. It's better than the Oly dSLR's though, and that's due to the processor. It's limited by the slightly smaller sensor compared to APS-C.

Sony's APS-C EVIL isn't that good at high ISO, but again, that's down to the processor they use. None of their dSLRs (including their FF models) are great at high ISO.

If someone wanted to make an EVIL that was good at high ISO, it could be done. Pentax could do it, as could Canon or Nikon.

RBellavance · 07-27-2010, 05:47 AM

I did not vote, because I do not base my camera purchase decision on a single specification like size of the sensor or presence or absence of a mirror/OVF.

At current prices and body sizes, cameras with a 24x36 sensor do not appeal to me at all. And I have all the focal lengths I want covered on APS-C with my current lens set.

Likewise, current EVFs and contrast-detection AF systems are still a bit inferior to mirrors/OVFs and phase-detection AF, IMHO, so EVILs have drawbacks that make them less appealing to me. Also, I am not willing at this point to completely replace my lens collection, so compatibility with KAF lenses would be important to me.

In the current state of affairs, what would appeal to me most is an upgraded camera in the K-7 form factor, with a better APS-C sensor (DR, high-ISO noise), better AF (although the K-7's is fine for what I do), and other updates.

**Aristophanes** · 07-27-2010, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by KxBlaze

I am very surprised with the results so far. I thought EVIL was the new FF, but it seems that FF is still the king of camera features.

They are not mutually incompatible. You can have an EVIL FF.

The question for EVIL is the EV. Are you willing to substitute an EV for an OV regardless of sensor size.

**Clinton** · 07-27-2010, 06:22 AM

If they're K mount, both. If they have another mount... well then it's not very likely.

kari · 07-27-2010, 08:47 AM

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the focal plane be much closer to the lens in an EVIL camera, meaning that the current K-mount DSLR lenses would not be usable without some sort of extension tube? Kind of defeats the purpose when you're looking for a small camera.

emr · 07-27-2010, 08:55 AM

Kari, you are correct, an adapter would have to extend the flange distance. However, the overall bulging of the camera could be smaller due to the missing mirror & prism system. Also, the camera could be shaped differently today when we're not restrained by the film roll system.

View Poll Results: Full Frame or EVIL
EVIL	56	16.28%
Full Frame	174	50.58%
Neither	80	23.26%
Both	34	9.88%
Voters: 344. You may not vote on this poll

07-27-2010, 12:39 AM	#80
Billgscott Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: York Posts: 241	FF For me. It seems unbelievable to me that Pentax will not launch one this year. A while ago, there was a thread from France that a FF would be anounced this year, availaible early next, and I think that will be the case as Pentax knows that all my glass (other than kit and extreme wide angle) if FF, and they will do the right thing for me. Seriously though, my ideal would be a 5D equivalent based on the K20D body using the same grip and batteries. The 5D is classed by Canon as a 'pro' body and that is where Pentax should be aiming. They shouldn't be looking at the 1D / 1Ds as that way lies financial ruin. I know 3 pro photogs in North Yorks and they all use 5D, or Nikon eqivalent although one has an old D3 as well. I am not a pro, but do sell a few pics and will buy a FF Pentax if it is around the same price point as the 5D or 700D which are both cheaper than the Sony 900 as I write. Last edited by Billgscott; 07-27-2010 at 12:54 AM. Reason: More to say

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07-26-2010, 10:53 PM	#76
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681	Originally posted by KxBlaze I am very surprised with the results so far. I thought EVIL was the new FF, but it seems that FF is still the king of camera features. Except EVIL is nowhere near as good at High ISO.

07-26-2010, 10:55 PM	#77
Boris Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Israel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 932	Both. EVIL camera for my daughter and FF camera for me. If Pentax manages to pull off automation of K mount lenses on EVIL body, that would be double, no triple, well make it quadriple swell. But then again neither of the above is going to happen any time soon. Therefore I digress.

07-27-2010, 12:14 AM	#78
gaddigad Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 48	Originally posted by johnmflores Which one are you more interested in? Discuss. Thanks for playing. Since Evil is smaller and has the crop factor advantage for tele lenses, I'd prefer one over a FF. But I would only buy one if it has: 1) An APS-C sensor with high iso performance as good as on the k-x 2) A great high res electronic viewfinder 3) a large right hand grip (and as good as the one on the K100 4) Hinged (or articulated) LCD

07-27-2010, 12:37 AM	#79
emr Guest	This poll is only half a year old, but many may see the situation changed during this period, so the poll results may not reliably reflect today's situation. For example 12 to 6 months ago I was really really waiting for a FF camera from Pentax, but seeing what the EVILs can do, I've begun valuing small size more and more. So today I probably wouldn't buy a big FF DSLR, but rather a good EVIL (with K mount support with an adapter or directly). Now if Pentax brought the FF EVIL or a FF DSLR no bigger than a K20D...

07-27-2010, 12:53 AM	#81
eigelb Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Italy Posts: 174	I´m still wanting a FF Pentax but like emr says it has to be small. Smaller as the Canikonsony

07-27-2010, 01:16 AM	#82
Mohawk Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 109	I really couldn't care less about FF. But I would like to see an APS-C/H Foveon chipped DSLR or EVIL. Now that would be something! If I wanted to go larger format I'd go MF.

07-27-2010, 01:48 AM	#83
emr Guest	Originally posted by Mohawk ...Foveon chipped DSLR... So you think the Foveon technology is that good? I have never even held a Foveon based camera in my hands, but I thought that the hypothetical benefits of this technology never really showed in the end results.

07-27-2010, 02:38 AM	#84
Mohawk Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 109	Originally posted by emr So you think the Foveon technology is that good? Well, yes. Unfortunately its development lags behind that of Bayer type sensors, but the potential is there for the manufacturer (other than Sigma) that wants to take it on. And I want to be (more) different. And that's why it appeals to me much like Pentax in general.

07-27-2010, 05:34 AM	#85
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	Originally posted by lurchlarson Except EVIL is nowhere near as good at High ISO. You're correct right now, but there's no reason that has to be the case. My E-P1 is pretty good up to ISO1600, but not as good as my K20D. It's better than the Oly dSLR's though, and that's due to the processor. It's limited by the slightly smaller sensor compared to APS-C. Sony's APS-C EVIL isn't that good at high ISO, but again, that's down to the processor they use. None of their dSLRs (including their FF models) are great at high ISO. If someone wanted to make an EVIL that was good at high ISO, it could be done. Pentax could do it, as could Canon or Nikon.

07-27-2010, 05:47 AM	#86
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	I did not vote, because I do not base my camera purchase decision on a single specification like size of the sensor or presence or absence of a mirror/OVF. At current prices and body sizes, cameras with a 24x36 sensor do not appeal to me at all. And I have all the focal lengths I want covered on APS-C with my current lens set. Likewise, current EVFs and contrast-detection AF systems are still a bit inferior to mirrors/OVFs and phase-detection AF, IMHO, so EVILs have drawbacks that make them less appealing to me. Also, I am not willing at this point to completely replace my lens collection, so compatibility with KAF lenses would be important to me. In the current state of affairs, what would appeal to me most is an upgraded camera in the K-7 form factor, with a better APS-C sensor (DR, high-ISO noise), better AF (although the K-7's is fine for what I do), and other updates.

07-27-2010, 05:53 AM	#87
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by KxBlaze I am very surprised with the results so far. I thought EVIL was the new FF, but it seems that FF is still the king of camera features. They are not mutually incompatible. You can have an EVIL FF. The question for EVIL is the EV. Are you willing to substitute an EV for an OV regardless of sensor size.

07-27-2010, 06:22 AM	#88
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,912	If they're K mount, both. If they have another mount... well then it's not very likely.

07-27-2010, 08:47 AM	#89
kari Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 142	Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the focal plane be much closer to the lens in an EVIL camera, meaning that the current K-mount DSLR lenses would not be usable without some sort of extension tube? Kind of defeats the purpose when you're looking for a small camera.

07-27-2010, 08:55 AM	#90
emr Guest	Kari, you are correct, an adapter would have to extend the flange distance. However, the overall bulging of the camera could be smaller due to the missing mirror & prism system. Also, the camera could be shaped differently today when we're not restrained by the film roll system.