Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-20-2007, 09:49 PM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Flash Q's - 360fgz + M mode for fill

On a recent vacation I ran into a lot of situatons where I needed fill flash (bright sunny day with a friend in the foreground and some famous scenery in the background and you want both of them to show on the picture).

I think fill flash is difficult, I have a 360fgz but I rarely use it. If I use it in wireless mode and slap a lumiquest soft box on it, then the result looks very nice, altho since its not fill flash the background is dark but the subject looks very good, unfortunateley its very hard to hold a flash with one hand and then a heavy slr in the other hand. I wish they invented some hovering technology so u can just leave your flash in thin air and it will float whereever you put it, that would be something wouldnt it.

So, how to do fill flash.... I found that if I use the flash normally, on camera. The camera will by default set the exposure to 1/60 and rely in the flash for the light. This can cause the background to be very dark. What I wanted was to have the camera measure as normal (which would mean the person standing in the foreground would be dark) and then fire the flash at reduced output to lit the person in the foreground.

I didnt find a way to do this in Av mode, so I went to manual. There I found a hack way to do it which was to turn the flash off, use the green button to meter, then turn the flash back on and fire the shot. This worked surprisingly well actually, and compared to pressing the green button while the flash was on, this way used a lot more ambient light.

Sorry, let me get down to some questions here: how do you guys do fill flash?
And, heres another issue which I thought was strange:
With the 360fgz in manual mode, I measured and took a shot indoors with flash, it was taken at 1/15 and the exposure looked good. Then I set the flash to manual mode, and turned it down as far as I could, which was 1:32, but now the same shot was overexposed. Does that mean that altho you cannot turn the flash down more than 1:32 in manual mode, it can actually fire a weaker flash in p-ttl mode?

Oh, and I figured I had to put the flash in HS mode to be able to use it more flexibly. I dont think there is that much info surrounding fill flash, other than the principle of it, but what about the camera setting specifics.

Please share some of your fill flash techniques

06-21-2007, 10:31 AM   #2
Veteran Member
*isteve's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,187
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
On a recent vacation I ran into a lot of situatons where I needed fill flash (bright sunny day with a friend in the foreground and some famous scenery in the background and you want both of them to show on the picture).

I think fill flash is difficult, I have a 360fgz but I rarely use it. If I use it in wireless mode and slap a lumiquest soft box on it, then the result looks very nice, altho since its not fill flash the background is dark but the subject looks very good, unfortunateley its very hard to hold a flash with one hand and then a heavy slr in the other hand. I wish they invented some hovering technology so u can just leave your flash in thin air and it will float whereever you put it, that would be something wouldnt it.

So, how to do fill flash.... I found that if I use the flash normally, on camera. The camera will by default set the exposure to 1/60 and rely in the flash for the light. This can cause the background to be very dark. What I wanted was to have the camera measure as normal (which would mean the person standing in the foreground would be dark) and then fire the flash at reduced output to lit the person in the foreground.

I didnt find a way to do this in Av mode, so I went to manual. There I found a hack way to do it which was to turn the flash off, use the green button to meter, then turn the flash back on and fire the shot. This worked surprisingly well actually, and compared to pressing the green button while the flash was on, this way used a lot more ambient light.

Sorry, let me get down to some questions here: how do you guys do fill flash?
And, heres another issue which I thought was strange:
With the 360fgz in manual mode, I measured and took a shot indoors with flash, it was taken at 1/15 and the exposure looked good. Then I set the flash to manual mode, and turned it down as far as I could, which was 1:32, but now the same shot was overexposed. Does that mean that altho you cannot turn the flash down more than 1:32 in manual mode, it can actually fire a weaker flash in p-ttl mode?

Oh, and I figured I had to put the flash in HS mode to be able to use it more flexibly. I dont think there is that much info surrounding fill flash, other than the principle of it, but what about the camera setting specifics.

Please share some of your fill flash techniques
I think you pretty much got it - you can use it in HSS mode for fill in P Av or Tv mode but the camera will stop the shutter slowing so much you blur the background. Its also quite hard to vary the background exposure in isolation.

However in HSS and M mode you should not need to turn the flash off. The green button will give you a correct P mode exposure which you can vary as you wish. The camera will meter normally and the flash will just be used to balance exposure at the focus range.

I generally take a green button mode exposure of the background as reference. Adjust aperture to what I want and then lower/raise the shutter speed to underexpose the background by a half to one stop. I then leave it be and let the flash take care of the subject.
06-22-2007, 10:39 AM   #3
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Original Poster
Steve, thanks for replying. I do need to play with this a bit more. There is also slow-sync with the built in flash, but I dont know if that will be usefull for filll flash, I used that on previous cameras for doing flash pictures at night and avoiding the background turning out as pitch black.

Seems to me M mode is the right place to do fill flash. I believe the camera gave me different exposure when I pressed the green button for the same aperature setting depending if I had the flash on or not and as I said, setting the exposure without the flash and then fiering the flash in p-ttl mode seemed to do the trick, but its annoying to turn the flash on and off.

I was wondering about the manual flash, I found that strange, if I used the flash in manual and turned it as low as I could, it was still way too powerfull and I remmeber I had to stop down to f11 in my test to balance it, its annoying that you cannot turn the flash down more than that.

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I think you pretty much got it - you can use it in HSS mode for fill in P Av or Tv mode but the camera will stop the shutter slowing so much you blur the background. Its also quite hard to vary the background exposure in isolation.

However in HSS and M mode you should not need to turn the flash off. The green button will give you a correct P mode exposure which you can vary as you wish. The camera will meter normally and the flash will just be used to balance exposure at the focus range.

I generally take a green button mode exposure of the background as reference. Adjust aperture to what I want and then lower/raise the shutter speed to underexpose the background by a half to one stop. I then leave it be and let the flash take care of the subject.
06-22-2007, 11:21 AM   #4
Veteran Member
blende8's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bremen, Germany
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,484
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
Seems to me M mode is the right place to do fill flash. I believe the camera gave me different exposure when I pressed the green button for the same aperature setting depending if I had the flash on or not and as I said, setting the exposure without the flash and then fiering the flash in p-ttl mode seemed to do the trick, but its annoying to turn the flash on and off.

No need to do that!
Just set the camera in M to 2nd curtain.
When you now press the green button you will get the metering "without flash".
A hidden feature!

06-22-2007, 11:33 AM   #5
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No need to do that!
Just set the camera in M to 2nd curtain.
When you now press the green button you will get the metering "without flash".
A hidden feature!
Really? Interesting, I must give that a try tomorrow. Thaks for the tip
06-22-2007, 08:24 PM   #6
Veteran Member
*isteve's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,187
QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No need to do that!
Just set the camera in M to 2nd curtain.
When you now press the green button you will get the metering "without flash".
A hidden feature!

Interesting - but the same happens in HSS mode - M mode and green button gives the non-flash exposure.
06-23-2007, 01:43 AM   #7
Veteran Member
blende8's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bremen, Germany
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,484
QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Interesting - but the same happens in HSS mode - M mode and green button gives the non-flash exposure.
This is correct!
I am wondering if Pentax knows this?
06-23-2007, 02:03 AM   #8
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Original Poster
I just did a quick and dirty test, with the camera in M mode and standing stationary on a table pointing at the same subject, I tried pressing the green button to see what kind of exposure I would get:
Flash off: 1/4
Flash on in leading, normal and trailing sync: 1/60
Flash on in HSS: 1/4

Also, interestingly eanough, putting the camera in Av mode with the same aperature as in M mode also gives 1/60, even in HSS mode.

Is this a bug?

Seems this might be a good way of doing fillflash though.

Steve: Do you find it nescesary to add some - flash comp when you do this?

06-23-2007, 11:10 AM   #9
Veteran Member
*isteve's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,187
QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I just did a quick and dirty test, with the camera in M mode and standing stationary on a table pointing at the same subject, I tried pressing the green button to see what kind of exposure I would get:
Flash off: 1/4
Flash on in leading, normal and trailing sync: 1/60
Flash on in HSS: 1/4

Also, interestingly eanough, putting the camera in Av mode with the same aperature as in M mode also gives 1/60, even in HSS mode.

Is this a bug?

Seems this might be a good way of doing fillflash though.

Steve: Do you find it nescesary to add some - flash comp when you do this?
I dont think its so much a bug as just not a not very well documented feature! I generally find I need +0.5 indoors or +1 if the background is too bright or reflective. I also tend to use ISO320 - 500 most of the time to make sure I can get background detail.

Surprised that 1/32 is so bright. You must have been quite close or using it direct. Try bouncing or using a diffuser.
06-23-2007, 11:57 AM   #10
Veteran Member
*isteve's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 1,187
I think I understand your problem....

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I dont think its so much a bug as just not a not very well documented feature! I generally find I need +0.5 indoors or +1 if the background is too bright or reflective. I also tend to use ISO320 - 500 most of the time to make sure I can get background detail.

Surprised that 1/32 is so bright. You must have been quite close or using it direct. Try bouncing or using a diffuser.

If you leave the camera set to autoflash, the camera will use autoflash exposure (will stop the shutter speed slowing below the shake threshold depending on lens) unless you set the flash to HSS.

If you set the camera to Slow Synch, then it will use whatever synch mode is set on the flash (even HSS) and will meter as if no flash were attached. It will prevent you using shutter speeds about 1/180 though unless HSS is set.


I compiled a full matrix over at the "other place"

Flash settings on camera and flash: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Last edited by *isteve; 06-23-2007 at 03:11 PM.
06-24-2007, 11:09 PM   #11
and
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,471
Original Poster
Very usefull info Steve, a recommended read for anyone that wants to play with Fill Flash! Thanks a lot for that.

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
If you leave the camera set to autoflash, the camera will use autoflash exposure (will stop the shutter speed slowing below the shake threshold depending on lens) unless you set the flash to HSS.

If you set the camera to Slow Synch, then it will use whatever synch mode is set on the flash (even HSS) and will meter as if no flash were attached. It will prevent you using shutter speeds about 1/180 though unless HSS is set.


I compiled a full matrix over at the "other place"

Flash settings on camera and flash: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
360fgz, background, button, camera, dslr, fire, flash, foreground, mode, photography, shot
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using 360FGZ as a day-light fill flash? blu3ness Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 02-03-2010 09:46 AM
Fill flash for K10D with AF360 flash unit dichro1 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 1 12-03-2009 03:08 PM
360FGZ wireless mode.. questions? Mindflux Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 2 11-08-2008 08:52 PM
Slow flash - fill in flash - k100d soalle Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 06-21-2008 02:06 PM
best mode for fill flash WMBP Photographic Technique 12 05-14-2008 12:29 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:20 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top