Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!

BookSaw · 01-09-2010, 08:24 AM

I was at odds, I have always loved the Elan 7N because for a film SLR it really can't be beat... I've always wanted one for the last 5 yrs. Now that I have some money I was going to get it's bigger brother the 450D for 450$ on KEH, instead of the K-x which I just KNEW couldn't compare to the Canon's AF speed or IQ...

Well I was HORRIBLY wrong...

This is at 100iso look at the middle pattern and you can tell the K-x is INCREDIBLE compared to the 450D... I was leaning towards the 450D for IQ and AF speed and the K-x for prices on the lens and IQ for the older k-mount lenses. But I am going to rest assured now with my decision to get a Pentax, I just had to show this to you guys!

BTW, this is about 10% crop of the original image, and it looks like it's the whole frame for the K-x, that is incredible to me... I don't know about you guys...

creampuff · 01-09-2010, 08:36 AM

First time I'm hearing that the K-x has ISO 100...

opiedog · 01-09-2010, 08:38 AM

do the iso range expansion and you'll get iso 100 and iso 12800

jboyde · 01-09-2010, 08:48 AM

Canon compromises some detail for noise control while Pentax does the opposite. Pentax did it right by doing that because you can always tone down noise in PP but you can never recover original detail.

I got used to a lot of chroma (color noise) in JPG with my K100 and K200 in even low ISO. How amazed was I when doing lens tests with my K20 did no noise show up at all in my ISO 200 tests. I have my settings for noise reduction on "weakest" on all my cameras.

Marc Sabatella · 01-09-2010, 10:25 AM

I wouldn't be convinced you're not just seeing a slight focus difference on those comparisons. I think far too much is read into them overall.

BookSaw · 01-09-2010, 12:30 PM

I thought the same thing at first Marc, but you have to consider the test was done on a tripod with AF locked in to the cameras correct guess, I assume even if the focus was a bit softer on the K-x it will still come out with much better contrast and what not.

PentaxPoke · 01-09-2010, 12:57 PM

Saw, go back and look at the "proportional scale" on the same iso 100 images you posted. The Canon 450D is much better. The screen capture from below doesn't even do it justice (since it is a snagit capture). You only looked at one part of the image. The 450D is on the right, k-x on the left. Now who blows who away?

Also, there is still the big difference in AF speed you mentioned.

Attached Images

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 01-09-2010 at 09:27 PM.

joodiespost · 01-09-2010, 06:52 PM

Well that was quick

AdrianN · 01-09-2010, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

Also, there is still the big difference in AF speed you mentioned.

Doesn't Canon skimp on AF accuracy to achieve their much touted AF speed?

Anyway, both these images only prove one thing: you can't trust the comparometer.

PentaxPoke · 01-09-2010, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by AdrianN

Doesn't Canon skimp on AF accuracy to achieve their much touted AF speed?

No. Urban Legend. The only place I have ever heard or read that is on a Pentax forum trying to justfy slow AF.
Check this out:
http://canonfieldreviews.com/7d-cold-winter/
and this:
http://canonfieldreviews.com/canon-7d-3-autofocus/

Then tell me what you think.

Originally posted by AdrianN

Anyway, both these images only prove one thing: you can't trust the comparometer.

They are in fact the same image.

Marc Sabatella · 01-09-2010, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by BookSaw

I thought the same thing at first Marc, but you have to consider the test was done on a tripod with AF locked in to the cameras correct guess, I assume even if the focus was a bit softer on the K-x it will still come out with much better contrast and what not.

I think the crop of the proportional scale pretty much settles the case. I wouldn't assume it's an issue of "correct" focus or not. Whatever specific part of the scene the camera focused on, I'm sure it was within the zone of acceptable focus. But depending on exactly how the AF system worked, different amounts of that zone might extend in front or versus behind the actual focus target. Yes, in theory thatsan optical property of the lens / focal length, but really, it's also dependent on how the AF system places the target within the zone.

flyer · 01-10-2010, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

No. Urban Legend. The only place I have ever heard or read that is on a Pentax forum trying to justfy slow AF.
Check this out:
7D #2 In the Cold of Winter
and this:
Canon 7D #3 Autofocus

It proves the 7D is very good at tracking, nothing else. I remember some pro ditching Canon for Nikon last year due to AF problems. The Canon 7D has an all new AF, so older Canon might have had some problems under some conditions.

PentaxPoke · 01-10-2010, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by flyer

It proves the 7D is very good at tracking, nothing else.

Ummm, didn't you see all the pictures in focus? Isn't the definition of tracking in this context, focus? I think it proves yet again that the myth of Canon sacrificing speed for focus accuracy, is just a myth.

asdf · 01-10-2010, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

Ummm, didn't you see all the pictures in focus? Isn't the definition of tracking in this context, focus? I think it proves yet again that the myth of Canon sacrificing speed for focus accuracy, is just a myth.

The problem with your examples is that they're at f/5 and smaller apertures which makes them completely irrelevant.

I constantly read Canonite comments blaming the first fast lenses they own for mis-focus--which is idiotic.

PentaxPoke · 01-10-2010, 10:12 PM

Looks like the OP had a change of heart? The image is gone, and no reply.

01-09-2010, 08:24 AM	#1
BookSaw Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Olympia, Washington Posts: 13	K-x BLOWS the 450D AWAY at 100iso INCREDIBLE Comparisin I was at odds, I have always loved the Elan 7N because for a film SLR it really can't be beat... I've always wanted one for the last 5 yrs. Now that I have some money I was going to get it's bigger brother the 450D for 450$ on KEH, instead of the K-x which I just KNEW couldn't compare to the Canon's AF speed or IQ... Well I was HORRIBLY wrong... This is at 100iso look at the middle pattern and you can tell the K-x is INCREDIBLE compared to the 450D... I was leaning towards the 450D for IQ and AF speed and the K-x for prices on the lens and IQ for the older k-mount lenses. But I am going to rest assured now with my decision to get a Pentax, I just had to show this to you guys! BTW, this is about 10% crop of the original image, and it looks like it's the whole frame for the K-x, that is incredible to me... I don't know about you guys...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
pentax k20d vs canon EOS 450D	kcc	Pentax DSLR Discussion	8	07-24-2009 04:24 PM
The wind blows from the North	thomascdk	Post Your Photos!	2	06-02-2009 03:16 PM
Canon 450D IQ is not a match for Pentax K10D IQ.	Voe	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	19	07-11-2008 09:15 AM
K100D Replacement: K200D, K20D or 450D?	RiceHigh	Pentax DSLR Discussion	26	04-05-2008 07:05 AM
thar she blows!	tlfaust	Post Your Photos!	14	03-07-2008 11:14 PM

01-09-2010, 08:36 AM	#2
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	First time I'm hearing that the K-x has ISO 100...

01-09-2010, 08:38 AM	#3
opiedog Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NC Posts: 787	iso100? of course kx has it do the iso range expansion and you'll get iso 100 and iso 12800

01-09-2010, 08:48 AM	#4
jboyde Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 328	Canon compromises some detail for noise control while Pentax does the opposite. Pentax did it right by doing that because you can always tone down noise in PP but you can never recover original detail. I got used to a lot of chroma (color noise) in JPG with my K100 and K200 in even low ISO. How amazed was I when doing lens tests with my K20 did no noise show up at all in my ISO 200 tests. I have my settings for noise reduction on "weakest" on all my cameras.

01-09-2010, 10:25 AM	#5
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I wouldn't be convinced you're not just seeing a slight focus difference on those comparisons. I think far too much is read into them overall.

01-09-2010, 12:30 PM	#6
BookSaw Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Olympia, Washington Posts: 13 Original Poster	I thought the same thing at first Marc, but you have to consider the test was done on a tripod with AF locked in to the cameras correct guess, I assume even if the focus was a bit softer on the K-x it will still come out with much better contrast and what not.

01-09-2010, 12:57 PM	#7
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Saw, go back and look at the "proportional scale" on the same iso 100 images you posted. The Canon 450D is much better. The screen capture from below doesn't even do it justice (since it is a snagit capture). You only looked at one part of the image. The 450D is on the right, k-x on the left. Now who blows who away? Also, there is still the big difference in AF speed you mentioned. Attached Images Last edited by PentaxPoke; 01-09-2010 at 09:27 PM.

01-09-2010, 06:52 PM	#8
joodiespost Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 336	Well that was quick

01-09-2010, 09:12 PM	#9
AdrianN Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 66	Originally posted by PentaxPoke Also, there is still the big difference in AF speed you mentioned. Doesn't Canon skimp on AF accuracy to achieve their much touted AF speed? Anyway, both these images only prove one thing: you can't trust the comparometer.

01-09-2010, 09:20 PM	#10
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by AdrianN Doesn't Canon skimp on AF accuracy to achieve their much touted AF speed? No. Urban Legend. The only place I have ever heard or read that is on a Pentax forum trying to justfy slow AF. Check this out: http://canonfieldreviews.com/7d-cold-winter/ and this: http://canonfieldreviews.com/canon-7d-3-autofocus/ Then tell me what you think. Originally posted by AdrianN Anyway, both these images only prove one thing: you can't trust the comparometer. They are in fact the same image.

01-09-2010, 09:20 PM	#11
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by BookSaw I thought the same thing at first Marc, but you have to consider the test was done on a tripod with AF locked in to the cameras correct guess, I assume even if the focus was a bit softer on the K-x it will still come out with much better contrast and what not. I think the crop of the proportional scale pretty much settles the case. I wouldn't assume it's an issue of "correct" focus or not. Whatever specific part of the scene the camera focused on, I'm sure it was within the zone of acceptable focus. But depending on exactly how the AF system worked, different amounts of that zone might extend in front or versus behind the actual focus target. Yes, in theory thatsan optical property of the lens / focal length, but really, it's also dependent on how the AF system places the target within the zone.

01-10-2010, 05:47 AM	#12
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Originally posted by PentaxPoke No. Urban Legend. The only place I have ever heard or read that is on a Pentax forum trying to justfy slow AF. Check this out: 7D #2 In the Cold of Winter and this: Canon 7D #3 Autofocus It proves the 7D is very good at tracking, nothing else. I remember some pro ditching Canon for Nikon last year due to AF problems. The Canon 7D has an all new AF, so older Canon might have had some problems under some conditions.

01-10-2010, 11:54 AM	#13
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by flyer It proves the 7D is very good at tracking, nothing else. Ummm, didn't you see all the pictures in focus? Isn't the definition of tracking in this context, focus? I think it proves yet again that the myth of Canon sacrificing speed for focus accuracy, is just a myth.

01-10-2010, 11:57 AM	#14
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by PentaxPoke Ummm, didn't you see all the pictures in focus? Isn't the definition of tracking in this context, focus? I think it proves yet again that the myth of Canon sacrificing speed for focus accuracy, is just a myth. The problem with your examples is that they're at f/5 and smaller apertures which makes them completely irrelevant. I constantly read Canonite comments blaming the first fast lenses they own for mis-focus--which is idiotic.

01-10-2010, 10:12 PM	#15
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Looks like the OP had a change of heart? The image is gone, and no reply.

K-x BLOWS the 450D AWAY at 100iso INCREDIBLE Comparisin

Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!