Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-21-2007, 07:13 PM   #1
Site Supporter
vagrant10's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: portland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,327
New York Times brief review of the K10D

Here's the link: NYT review of 5 sub $900 cameras

Too bad there's not any mention of the good reviews and awards this camera has been getting recently. But at least it got some coverage! Anyways, read on...

"PENTAX K10D This weather-resistant tank of a camera ($795, body only) may be in the same price-and-megapixel class as the others here, but it’s not aimed at the same audience. It is a more serious piece of gear.

In some ways, that is good. For example, the 10D is the only camera here with a top-mounted illuminated status screen that shows the battery charge, shots remaining and so on. It offers both dust removal and in-camera stabilization. The big, bright eyepiece viewfinder is sensational.

On the other hand, less-experienced shooters will be disappointed to learn that this is the only camera without preconfigured scene modes like sports and nighttime portraits.

Worst of all, the photos are soft and slightly washed-out — at least at first. You can extract the brilliant shots the Pentax really takes by shooting in RAW mode, an unprocessed format, and then tweaking the results in a program like Photoshop. In other words, the fault lies in the Pentax’s post-shot processing circuitry, not the lens or the shooter’s ability.

That Photoshop step is another reason the 10D is a bargain for semi-pros who may already own and know how to use the software, but a potentially complicated proposition for amateurs.

06-21-2007, 08:24 PM   #2
Veteran Member
Matthew Roberts's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bertram Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 585
The processing engine seems to be the one major flaw with the K10D.
06-21-2007, 08:29 PM   #3
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,414
I thought the jpegs from my K10D were better than what they get described as in some reviews. They were acceptable as far as jpegs are concerned. Of course, I don't like jpegs and only shot them in this camera as a test. I far prefer the personal expression capabilities of RAW.
06-21-2007, 08:34 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 313
QuoteOriginally posted by Matthew Roberts Quote
The processing engine seems to be the one major flaw with the K10D.
This is something I've posted from the start inciting flames. The problem is they have decided for us how the jpgs should look with this filmlike thing, and given us NO adjustability in edge sharpness for those that need/prefer a bit of it. They've decided to ONLY give us darkside sharpening. No one would expect an either/or, all or nothing choice betweeen the current way, and complete point and shoot over-the-top undefeatable edge sharpening levels.

BRIGHT mode does NOT solve any of this issue, and uses the SAME darkside sharpening.

Supposedly they left tweaking room in the internal processors that may be able to be accessed by firmware, or maybe an adjustable/defeatable edge sharpening algorithm can be written into firmware and be controllable with menu choices while automatically cancelling the default darkside sharpening.
If possible, in the CUSTOM menu have:

SHARPENING:

1 - Default
2 - Edge

Whichever you choose will then be controlled by the sharpening slider, and be user defeatable.

This, and some chroma noise control/adjustability for high ISOs would end all this continual commentary by reviewers, and owners, and potential buyers. The ones that are gaga for the current jpg IQ, and feel Pentax can simply do no wrong with the current jpg processing can still have their current settings, and permit others a choice.

The jpg processing engine is given to us in this $1000 camera, and its quality/adjustability should be commensurate. There are times when you just don't have the time or workflow to futz with RAW, or PP the jpegs, so you need better adjustment qualities at those times.

All this may be moot because they may have decided to deal with this issue by simply replacing the K10D quickly in a month or two with a K10DS model or some such. This will completely absolve them from dealing with the customers that already own a K10D.

According to two separate posters on another forum in different parts of the world, their Pentax Sales officials have told them that instead of the hoped for higher than K10D camera model, there will be this quick replacement of the K10D.

The post from China said it would be announced in about 8 days or so due to some Olympics thing.

This would, (as they well know), suck for people like me who can't afford to replace my K10D with the new model, but maybe Pentax is hoping many K10D owners will simply give them more money and get the improved one.
Time will tell if these Pentax sales offices were just spinning rumors.

06-21-2007, 11:59 PM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tirana, Albania, South Europe, Planet Earth
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 621
So ... as far as I understand pentax might release a replacement for the k10d because consumers don't like life like images. Once this new k10d (k10ds?) is released these "consumers", if they have enough money, will start selling their "flawed" k10d to get the real thing.

Hmmm me likes it. This will drive the price of k10d even lower and I don't want the fur of the animals I might shoot look as sharp as the "fur" of a pissed hedgehog .
06-22-2007, 01:04 AM   #6
Junior Member




Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 27
I'm still looking around to find a dslr to replace my slr.

The K10D's get medicore ratings on IQ in most reviews. That's the major reason why I haven't bought the camera yet.

I've tried to find comments from Pentax on this issue, but haven't found anything.

Has there been any comments from Pentax on the low IQ scores?
Does anybody know if Pentax is working to solve this problem?
06-22-2007, 03:23 AM   #7
Senior Member
chrisman's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 237
I shoot both RAW and JPEG's depending on the situation, although mainly RAW.

Although JPEG's do not come out of the K10D super sharp and sparkling (I'm pleased to say, since that would mean they have already been processed to death) it takes very little post-processing to get the best out of them. A quick Auto Contrast in your favourite PP program works wonders, and there is still plenty of latitude to do further processing. There is no need to fire up Photoshop - Picasa, or similar, will do an excellent job and quickly.

RAW obviously gives the most flexibility but not everyone wants to spend the time required to PP RAW images - or, for that matter, has the necessary skill.

My previous DSLR was a Canon EOS300D and I personally think the K10D JPEG's are better. That's not to say the K10D JPEG processing could not be improved, I simply do not think it is as bad as many people say.

There is not much point in buying a camera like the K10D if what you want is Point-and-Shoot style images directly out of the camera.

I really think the whole JPEG 'thing' with the K10D is grossly over done.
06-22-2007, 04:17 AM   #8
Junior Member




Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 27
QuoteOriginally posted by chrisman Quote
I shoot both RAW and JPEG's depending on the situation, although mainly RAW.

Although JPEG's do not come out of the K10D super sharp and sparkling (I'm pleased to say, since that would mean they have already been processed to death) it takes very little post-processing to get the best out of them.
RAW obviously gives the most flexibility but not everyone wants to spend the time required to PP RAW images - or, for that matter, has the necessary skill.

There is not much point in buying a camera like the K10D if what you want is Point-and-Shoot style images directly out of the camera.

I really think the whole JPEG 'thing' with the K10D is grossly over done.
I've read a lot on this issue in several forums. The general answer is similar to "only noob shoots JPEG".

Well, what is the point in having JPEG conversion algorithm in the camera? If nobody should use this feature they could have left it out.

When I want to do PP I shoot RAW. But people don't always have the time/skills to PP RAW images and that's some of the reason why the JPEG-conversion is in the K10D. So I expect that this feature shoud present high IQ images which (as far as possible) doesn't require any PP.

I'm a looking for my first dslr. Because I've got no experience with digital cameras I'm gathering knowledge by reading reviews. Most reviews comment on the K10D sub-par JPEG IQ. Last example is from the NYT review: "Worst of all, the photos are soft and slightly washed-out ".

The sum of all the negative IQ comments is holding me back from buying the K10D.


I don't want to go into a lengthy discussion on this subject. I just want to find out if the people at Pentax are adressing this problem or not. If they are then I can wait - if not, then I'll continue my search for my first dslr.

06-22-2007, 05:26 AM   #9
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tirana, Albania, South Europe, Planet Earth
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 621
QuoteOriginally posted by Frakkas Quote
The sum of all the negative IQ comments is holding me back from buying the K10D.
One question:

Why don't you buy the less expensive, more (new to slr/dslr) user friendly K100D?

This way you get a great camera and a nice lens for the price of the K10D. Then as you learn your way through photography you might decide to buy a more advanced camera and sell/gift/keep as a backup the K100D.
06-22-2007, 05:44 AM   #10
Forum Member




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Monroe, MI USA
Posts: 58
QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
BRIGHT mode does NOT solve any of this issue, and uses the SAME darkside sharpening.
OK, I'll bite. What is darkside sharpening?
06-22-2007, 05:55 AM   #11
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Lee Quote
OK, I'll bite. What is darkside sharpening?
Instead of white halos you get black halos... so to speak, which of course do not create the illusion of sharpness as intense as white does.
From Phil at dpreview in the K10 review:
As we have seen on previous Pentax digital SLR's the default sharpness level is a little more conservative than other cameras, that's not a bad thing and simply means that if you want your images a little sharper out of the camera just select +1 or +2. We also note that Pentax appear to be using a sharpening algorithm which produces 'undershoot' (a darkening of black side of contrast on an edge) rather than 'overshoot' (white halos), this can be seen most obviously on the watch fingers in the +3 crop. Unfortunately this appears to leave some black edges looking a little soft and increasing the sharpness setting doesn't help.
............................................................
06-22-2007, 06:20 AM   #12
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 652
I'm all for giving the user the choice. They should give us the option, but it doesn't bother me either way, because I shoot raw. When I have shot jpeg, it was good enough for me and I think the reviewers are blowing things out of proportion. If jpeg rendering is the main feature that holds you back from getting a K10D, then the K10D is not the camera for you. I read all the reviews, and still came to the conclusion that the K10D is far and away the most camera for the money. I bought the camera not for it's image quality(is the difference that big between 10mp cameras? no!), but for it's handling, ability to use every Pentax lens ever made, weatherproofing, shake reduction, PRICE, etc. In my opinion the K10D walks all over every single camera in that review. It has a great price, takes nice jpegs, Fantastic results from raw, and is just an amazing camera with very few flaws.

Frakkas: Why not consider the K100D? I would argue that most owners of the K10d, D200, 30D shoot raw or at least have the software available to make those jpegs sharp(easily/quickly through a batch etc.). If jpegs are that important to you I can't see why a k100d(and honestly a K10D) would not meet all your needs.

Edit: Beaten by Deni.

Last edited by Vertex Ninja; 06-22-2007 at 06:32 AM.
06-22-2007, 08:27 AM   #13
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,312
What every one seems to forget is that you can adjust sharpening, contrast, saturation etc. for JPEG conversion, or shoot RAW

While it is true that we have the default set by pentax, the only difference in JPEGs from, other suppliers is where to put the average sharpness. Cannon puts it high, claiming the sharpest images but with the most noise, pentax seems to opt for lower noise but less sharpness.

In the end, unless you look at every print pixle for pixle on a 22 inch (or bigger) monitor, you don't see it any way.

If you read real reviews what people are discussing in terms of resolution and shapness is really something like 1% difference in default settings between all manufacturers.

usually comparative tests in this range are called equal.
06-22-2007, 10:56 AM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 1,399
I don't really understand the whole brouhaha about soft JPEGs. Apparently, there are more people interested to look at pixel sharpness instead of the whole picture itself.

I haven't taken a shot in RAW with my K10D, and I'm quite pleased by the resulting JPEGs that I got. Heck, I got some pics into the official Pentax gallery that originated as JPEGs.

I would have to agree that Canon probably swung the whole sharpness issue into their favor (being the market leader does have a way of influencing opinions, even expert ones), and so other renditions by competing companies would have to be seen as aberrant or inferior.
06-22-2007, 11:02 AM   #15
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I'm all for giving the user the choice. They should give us the option, but it doesn't bother me either way, because I shoot raw. When I have shot jpeg, it was good enough for me and I think the reviewers are blowing things out of proportion. If jpeg rendering is the main feature that holds you back from getting a K10D, then the K10D is not the camera for you. I read all the reviews, and still came to the conclusion that the K10D is far and away the most camera for the money. I bought the camera not for it's image quality(is the difference that big between 10mp cameras? no!), but for it's handling, ability to use every Pentax lens ever made, weatherproofing, shake reduction, PRICE, etc. In my opinion the K10D walks all over every single camera in that review. It has a great price, takes nice jpegs, Fantastic results from raw, and is just an amazing camera with very few flaws.

Edit: Beaten by Deni.
Minor point is, as far as I know NO camera has a list of "sharpening algorythms"
to choose from. Pentax is no different. To some the choice of "Type" is not pleasing, to others it's a pointless discussion. I am on the side of pointless discussion
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, k10d, photography, photoshop, review, shots, york times
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New York Times: Video Shows American Killing of Photographer johnmflores General Talk 18 04-06-2010 02:45 PM
New York Times Photo Blunder! casil403 General Talk 3 03-04-2010 09:41 AM
Another K10D Review benjikan Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 04-09-2007 09:23 AM
Photography Review K10D Review benjikan Pentax DSLR Discussion 29 03-04-2007 12:34 PM
K10D V1.1 Review BrendanPK Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 02-22-2007 09:00 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:56 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top